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[Eiba]

quote:Originally posted by Toady One:
<STRONG>There isn't an exact plan.  I'm just going to have fun with it for a while.</STRONG>

I actually quite like the sound of that.
My only concern is that players who go into a game with a specific, or even general plan would be highly screwed over by, for instance, a lack of water... A cave climate indicator that says whether there's a source for water or lava underground might be in order...

Be sure to keep us updated as you actually add various mountain-bits back in! It would make the wait for the next release much more tolerable...

[TomTheHand]

quote:Originally posted by Toady One:
<STRONG>Another casualty of this rewrite (today actually) was save compatibility.</STRONG>

I expected this when you talked about how sweeping the changes were for the next version.  I'm really excited about what's coming and I don't mind a bit if playability suffers for a couple of releases to make the game cooler in the long run.

[Solara]

I can't wait for the next update, everytime I read about the new cliff faces it gets me all excited.  

[Arnos]

Does this new update include insides that aren't always river-chasm-lava?

[Poil]

quote:Originally posted by Nephilim:
<STRONG>About the possible exploiting of rewalling... how about this:

Make is so that 'fake' walls act like normal walls in all ways, except one; siegers can recognise fake walls and attack them if they block their way. This way you can use fake walls for any purpose you might think of, except blocking yourself off from siegers. At best it would be a way of slowing them down.

I don't know if that's hard to make, but if it's not too hard I imagine this would be a solution to the problem...</STRONG>

I like it. Though the attackers would need something with building destroy.

Since the mountain change is so large I don't really care if it's not compatible with older saves and so on. If you want to play old fortresses you could just save the old DF folder somewhere on your drive.

[Eiba]

quote:Originally posted by Arnos:
<STRONG>Does this new update include insides that aren't always river-chasm-lava?</STRONG>

Yep.
This is what Toady said (on the last page in this topic, actually...):

quote:The current notion of the end game is gone, as are the three inside 'rivers' in order. With the ability to move the world around seamlessly, there has to be more connectivity between map features, so the vertical striping is out. It will have an enormous effect on play, especially if the river isn't a guarantee (it won't be unless the mountain is ringed just inside with a circular river, which seems quite odd).

Personally, it makes me giddy as a schoolgirl to contemplate, even if it screws things up for a while.

[haftan]

I dont see it as a screw up.  Its an evolution.  Why are you building up a dwarf fortress to begin with, for an ending? No, to send out armies! So I will keep my regular fort blueprints as best I can cause it works well and will send out massive armies (if I can). My ending will be in glorious battle at the humans  door.  I am super excited about the underground forests and nasties!!!!!!!!!<--- super excited.
For the programming of that would it be a good idea to take grids of the mountain and having a chance of something showing up in there with only the river, lava and chasm as 100% likely?  And the river doesnt have to run the entire map.  it could just come from a waterfall and cut off at some point 1 z level down.  Im sure all of this was thought of before.  Just want to get a hint.
thanks

[Chthon]

I've always wondered why the cave river/chasm/magma river had to run for the entire length anyhow.  Yeah, it makes it a challenge to cross, but if it could be fed by a waterfall, or drained by a waterfall, couldn't it start at some point and stop at some point?  Although I shudder to think of what a magma waterfall's 'mist' would do to dwarves...  certainly no happy thoughts there.

[haftan]

Yeah and for adamant ore you have dig DOWN the z axis when you awaken the demons.

[Capntastic]

quote:Originally posted by Chthon:
<STRONG>I've always wondered why the cave river/chasm/magma river had to run for the entire length anyhow.  Yeah, it makes it a challenge to cross, but if it could be fed by a waterfall, or drained by a waterfall, couldn't it start at some point and stop at some point?  Although I shudder to think of what a magma waterfall's 'mist' would do to dwarves...  certainly no happy thoughts there.</STRONG>

They don't.   It's entirely possible to bypass all three, if I remember correctly, simply by digging far North or South.

[Eiba]

quote:Originally posted by Capntastic:
<STRONG>
They don't.   It's entirely possible to bypass all three, if I remember correctly, simply by digging far North or South.</STRONG>

Start a game, dig to the cave river. Abandon. Reclaim. Look at the cave river. Due to a bug, you'll be able to see the whole thing, and there ain't no way 'round it. Same holds true for all cave-landmarks.

[Genuine]

quote:Originally posted by Solara:
<STRONG>
I'll be the first to admit I've gotten into kind of a rut with my playing style - I have a strategy, it works, and even thoughI may deviate from it a little as far as starting builds go by the mid and late game all my fortresses are basically the same. I can't even seem to break myself of the habit of using the same designs.

I just love the thought of these new changes coming along and forcing me to think outside the box and adapt on the fly.   </STRONG>

This is why I've basically stopped playing until the game is updated further. I've solved pretty much all the problems for my forts that I can (or all that I care to at the moment), and am looking forward to having to adapt using new designs.

[Zaratustra]

There's a simple sieger answer to rewalling.

Troll miners.

[Gigalith]

quote:Originally posted by Zaratustra:
<STRONG>There's a simple sieger answer to rewalling.

Troll miners.</STRONG>

That requires code for Trolls to mine, code to pick what to mine, code for the Troll AI, code to add Troll miners to sieges, then bugs, weird situations, balancing, possible recoding of other stuff, on top of the Army Arc, which is going to change how sieges are made, and then actually implement rewalling.

I'm sure Toady could do all that, but he has lots of other stuff to do too.

EDIT: I'm sorry if I came out a bit harsh, but if all it took was a simple "#define Troll_miner" on Toady's part, we'd already have them.

[ March 12, 2007: Message edited by: Gigalith ]

[Zaratustra]

quote:Originally posted by Gigalith:
<STRONG>
That requires code for Trolls to mine, code to pick what to mine, code for the Troll AI, code to add Troll miners to sieges, then bugs, weird situations, balancing, possible recoding of other stuff, on top of the Army Arc, which is going to change how sieges are made, and then actually implement rewalling.

I'm sure Toady could do all that, but he has lots of other stuff to do too.</STRONG>

I'm sorry, I'll check with you if Toady is free for suggestions before giving them.