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[Dwarmin]

In Theory, you could rig the underground springs with pumps to provide water for farming, right? So you should be able to set up shop in any where barring a total wasteland-even then you could cap your pop and live off shurbs, hunting, and caravans.

[Core Xii]

You're forgetting that farming isn't necessarily going to work the way it does now.

[Fieari]

quote:Originally posted by Abalieno:
<STRONG>This is an important concern for me because I had the idea that all these latest changes were made in the attempt to enhance the replayability.[ July 06, 2007: Message edited by: Abalieno ]</STRONG>

It's my understanding that the latest changes are to put the game in a closer state to the ideal game that will be "Version 1", with only tangential concern for incremental improvements.  Many, many features have been added already that we barely know anything about because they aren't even usable yet, but they lay the foundations for future features.

My understanding, likewise, is that the goal is for a game which simulates an entire fantasy world, that you get to play in.

These changes clearly bring us closer to that goal.  They may have a side effect of making the game much, much harder, even nearly impossible... but that's okay by me.  We have challenge games right now, do we not?  Now the difficulty can be easily set via means of location!

And eventually, tools will be added to the game that make living in any environment more possible, I'm sure, just because that's cool and leads to interesting stories.  But things won't look anything like the same.  This is -more- than fine to me.

[Abalieno]

quote:Originally posted by Rollory:
Dependent on finding the cave river?  Not really.  Most games I play, I build a channel from the outside river and build a farm just inside the cliff face.

This would STILL require a river, same problem.

quote:Alternatives: set up some of your dwarves as dedicated hunters.

Sadly not all that reliable. All my attempts ended with hunters going too far, wasting too much time and getting killed while they sleep in the open.

Very temporary alternative.

quote:Or fisherdwarves.

Winter freeze and STILL need a river in some form.

quote:Or bring extra horses and slaughter them.

Temporary.

quote:Anyway, it makes for a more interesting challenge the first year, which is something the game needs.

Yes, that's where I hope the game is moving, more varied challenges and gameplay.

The problem is that the game should also give enough tools to overcome the varied challenges.

quote:These changes clearly bring us closer to that goal. They may have a side effect of making the game much, much harder, even nearly impossible... but that's okay by me. We have challenge games right now, do we not? Now the difficulty can be easily set via means of location!

Sure, as long it is optional to start the fortress in a place where it may be impossible to survive.

Challenge is fun as long it is *possible* to "win" it. The game is already not the simplest thing around, I hope we can avoid a scenario where you find out your game is broken because you had bad luck with the random generation of the zone where you decided to carve your fortress. And have to restart a bunch of time in the hope the ranodm generator doesn't give you another broken zone.

[Vinic]

Well, doesn't every upgrade to the game bring it closer to a "Version 1" and more realistic simulation?

In fact, here's the list of devs that are set to be completed before v1 hits: http://bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_v1.html

I don't know how much of this is still relevant in Toady's eyes, but I don't think a 1.x release is happening any time soon. Hell, this game is far more complex and developed than a lot of v1 games out there.

The nature of a game like this is many many updates and enhancements over time. I get the feeling it's less focused on a version number and more focused on what each release adds to the game as a whole.

In any event, it's fun to think about just how this game will be once the boys in charge decide it's time to call it version 1.x.

[Funkadelic Jive Turkey]

As I understand, you will no longer be confined to only building inside. Also, Toady has stated that you can choose any tile as a starting location now, I'm sure this can result in some "impossible" scenarios, but most of them ought to be pretty obvious from the start. If you start w\ no trade, in the middle of a frozen\desert wasteland without a mountain nearby, it'll be your own fault when you don't survive. In general, I imagine most unworkable areas (if they exist at all) will be discovered pretty quick, and if you do get caught in one such area, it'll add to the history of your world.  

[4bh0r53n]

by any tile does that mean that theoretically, you can start a fortress in the middle of the ocean?

[Mechanoid]

Any walkable tile, i think it were... So you can't start a fort in the middle of the ocean, but you can start a fort on an island in the middle of the ocean.

[qwertyuiopas]

But with the Z axis, couldn't you just build down? There would be plenty of space.
So, even without a mountain, you might still be able to play.

[Zaratustra]

"Here lie the remains of the Kobabun expedition. They tried to start a fortress inside an active volcano."

[Xgamer4]

"Here lie the remains of the Second Kobabun expedition. They tried to start a fortress on an island. It flooded and sank."

[Misterstone]

The funny thing is, for the first few weeks or so after the new release people are going to be doing exactly this kind of thing- siting fortresses on volcanos, gremlin nests, underneath elf forests etc...

Heck, where else would you put it, somewhere boring where you never run into a dangerous creature or situation?

[Ostsol]

quote:Originally posted by qwertyuiopas:
<STRONG>But with the Z axis, couldn't you just build down? There would be plenty of space.
So, even without a mountain, you might still be able to play.</STRONG>

If one could dig down into the bedrock that would be feasible.  However, if the water-table is above that, you'd constantly find your hole-in-the-ground filling with water.

[Fourth Triad]

Building under a human town would be cool, cuz you wouldn't need an army and you get a free road.

[Zaratustra]

Ideally the fortress entrance would be in the very center of the tavern. Just like Undermountain!