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[ToonyMan]

@Roden: Can you please explain the Toony/McMiner situation? And, do you think that Toaster's play has been scummy disregarding his role claim?

So, back in Totem Mafia, McMiner tried to claim that his role let him send someone a message and optionally kill them. He claimed to target Toony, who said he never got a message, but also didn't question the suggestion that McMiner had maybe been Roleblocked and just accepted it. Their interactions and the weird role claim were initially seen as too scummy to actually be scummy, but it turned out both of them were the mafia. Short answer is probably just Occam's Razor.

I don't think Toaster's play has been particularly scummy, and in fact the more I read his posts the more I feel myself being convinced that I possibly really was Roleblocked. My problem with that though is that the suspect pool is tiny and doesn't make sense. I'm also just not sure why anyone would try to fuck with my Inspect anyway. I'm already Unreliable as it is, and even if I wasn't Toaster supposedly would come up Null anyway, so what's the point? Why block me over someone like Toony or Jack, who have objectively stronger abilities?

Do you think Toaster is possibly more dangerous than Web here then?

[Magma Mater]

Not sure how available I'll be on the weekends.
ToonyMan
I feel that his recent posts have been shallow. His points against web are things that look ostensibly scummy, but lack substance. For example, who cares if web bandwagoned onto NJW? He had already expressed suspicion there.

My second suspect is Roden. I feel like he's coasting on the Cop claim. His play here contrasts greatly from the other game we played together, where he was town and actively trying to solve the game. In this game, he's talking more about his own role interactions with Toaster and waiting for other people to post. I get the impression that he's comfortable allowing the lynch to fall wherever it falls today.

I strongly suspect that webadict is town. His play doesn't make sense from a mafia perspective. I don't support any of the votes. The only way web can be scum here is if it's with Toaster, which... alright, but why would we lynch web first in that situation?

[ToonyMan]

I strongly suspect that webadict is town. His play doesn't make sense from a mafia perspective. I don't support any of the votes. The only way web can be scum here is if it's with Toaster, which... alright, but why would we lynch web first in that situation?

Who's Toaster most likely mafia with then, Jim?

[Magma Mater]

I strongly suspect that webadict is town. His play doesn't make sense from a mafia perspective. I don't support any of the votes. The only way web can be scum here is if it's with Toaster, which... alright, but why would we lynch web first in that situation?

Who's Toaster most likely mafia with then, Jim?

I don't view Toaster as likely to be mafia. But if he does flip red, I'd suspect Roden most. The guy just compared his relationship with Toaster to a scum/scum relationship in another game, lol

[Maximum Spin]

The only way web can be scum here is if it's with Toaster, which... alright, but why would we lynch web first in that situation?

I simply don't see how this is possibly true. Webadict has a tendency to pick someone to latch onto, like that - it doesn't necessarily mean they're partners.
Now, I think they are, but it's certainly not the "only" potential solution.

[webadict]

Well, if I'm gonna be voted out, I'm going to leave what I can. Honestly, I'm not really against it that much. I just wish you'd all at least try a bit harder. Like, just a tiny bit.

Motion Detector

Sometimes a Motion Detector checks only for actions performed by their target, or only for actions performed on their target.

I literally cannot make this up.

Sometimes a Motion Detector checks only for actions performed by their target, or only for actions performed on their target.

IN THE LINK YOU GIVE, FIVE SENTENCES BELOW WHERE IT LITERALLY DESCRIBES THE VARIANTS:

The Motion Detector learns if any actions were performed by or on a player, but not what they were, or who else was involved.

I cannot believe this is what I have to point out, but it literally is.

This is all shit.

You wanna know why I know ToonyMan isn't trying?

Because there's a much better conclusion here than this:

Here's my theory:

Toaster is some kind of Ascetic Roleblocker/Jail Keeper.
Web is possibly lying about being a motion detector.

Toaster roleblocks/jailkeeps Max.
Roden gets roleblocked by something Toaster has, like a strong passive.
Webadict either actually motion detected Jack or is lying and did something else in secret.

This one is actually really silly: The obvious conclusion is that I ROLEBLOCKED RODEN. I mean, it's literally so obvious that it doesn't seem like I'd have to point it out, but I do.

In this particular case, the scum team has two roleblocks, and one of them was used on Roden when one of the members is functionally immune AND THE OTHER WAS USED TO FRAME MAX. I disagree with this assertion on the principle that it is an incredibly unlikely scenario.

So, let's put a pin (#1) in that.

Let's add in the alternative theory being pushed forward:

Actually, I think Webadict & Roden makes a better scum team than Webadict & Toaster. 
Web always picks one town player to defend regardless of the evidence, which could be Toaster.

Toaster's irrational push of Jim as mafia is the sort of mistake typically a Town player would make. 
Mafia knows that is a losing battle, and generally prefer softer targets.

@Toaster: Do you see any connections between Web & Roden?

Oh look, it's EuchreJack again! Wonderful.

Webadict + Roden? So, in this case, Webadict is lying about his action, and Roden is also lying about their action. I mean, this is necessarily impossible since Roden could've claimed to have inspected EuchreJack to balance the numbers. To me, this seems like a no-brainer, but if you think I'm scum, I obviously told Roden to lie and say they were roleblocked. The good news, is that in this particular case, Roden still has a Cop role (somehow???), or the Miller roles really do make no sense! Maybe I have a Cop role?!?

So, using what might be some basic logic, that's out the door.

This is too easy, come on, guys.

Part of the reason why I believe it's Max is because he was literally against a No Launch at the beginning of Today. He has explicitly stated that he will vote for a launch. With Toaster gone, this feels like a slam dunk for the Mafia team, as it removes what amounts to the only Roleblock against them. I'd much rather prefer me over Toaster in this case, as Toaster's role can still potentially win this.

On the other hand, if Toaster is somehow scum, I think the only possible pairing literally has to be Roden and Toaster, as that's the only way to account for the extra action without Multitasker, which I'm like 150% sure there is in this game.

On the other hand, let's start doing some real investigation, since I've got time and I'm feeling awake and perky, as to what the scumteam pairings can actually be:

#1: Maximum Spin & literally anyone but Toaster
This one is easy to understand. Maximum Spin was stopped by Toaster. Maximum Spin's boasting on Day 1 makes this technically less likely than many situations, but his retaliation against Toaster does seem haphazard at best. It's a very likely scenario, but the partners are still open for debate. If I had to guess, and I do, I'd say ToonyMan stands out for general scummy behaviors, but EuchreJack and Roden also stand out as potential people. The only person that can confirm EuchreJack's action is Maximum Spin, and I actually think Maximum Spin is good enough to be able to make a fakeclaim like that. It's not entirely likely, because EuchreJack seems fairly Town (on Day 1), but this still leaves some issues on what the extra actions were.


#2: Neither Toaster nor Maximum Spin
This one is also easy to understand. Maximum Spin is actually saved by Toaster or no kill is performed. In this particular case, we have to consider that there's a missing action or two: Roden was roleblocked on N1, and EuchreJack has either an extra action performed on or by them. Maximum Spin can confirm their Neighborizer.

This leads to a few potential conclusions:
Roden performed an action that either kills Maximum Spin or they performed a poison or prime on EuchreJack.



#3: Toaster and literally anyone but Maximum Spin
This one is below the other two because it's harder to understand, and the reasons why are complicated: Toaster definitely has a number of mysteries surrounding him, but he also has a number of confirmations. Toaster definitely roleblocked Maximum Spin, but either Jim, Magma, Roden, or I are the likely culprits, since none of our actions are confirmed. If we assume Multitasker, then this list expands to include the rest.


#4: Toaster and Maximum Spin
Is this possible? Is it worth exploring? I want to say no, but if I'm to die, I'm gonna try anyway.

Maximum Spin and Toaster's actions cannot be confirmed by anymore, but this also explains a bit of how Roden was roleblocked, and in this particular case, EuchreJack was either poisoned or primed, as that explains the extra action. Other than that? There's not much to be seen. It doesn't seem likely, as this particular play gets one of those two killed Today, which isn't a very Toaster (or Max for that matter) scumplay to me.

Anyway, I've already taken a bunch of tranqs like 30 minutes ago, so I'm fucking outta here, lmao, it's so fucking obvious that it's ToonyMan and Maximum Spin, I swear to fucking god, I have to carry the Town every fucking game

People remember when you say shit like this, you know. On the off-chance that you're actually town it just makes you look reeeeeeeally dumb.

Fair. I definitely outbursted there, but I just saw two terrible attacks after the other. It gets old after a while.

Anyway, I've written too much already. If you wanna kill me, I'm going to reiterate that it's probably not Toaster, and that if I have to rethink it, maybe Roden is a bit more suspicious than I initially thought. I'm still under the impression that it's ToonyMan. Also, if EuchreJack is Town, he's really, really, really, bad at reading.

[Maximum Spin]

I've got to be honest with you, you should see me/Toaster as 100% plausible. I have pulled ploys more insane than this.

Part of the reason why I believe it's Max is because he was literally against a No Launch at the beginning of Today.

Why should I support no-lynch if I think I know who scum is? Actually, lynching Toaster would divide the field best (that is, if he's scum, scum is X, if he's town, scum is Y, where X and Y are specific sets of people), but lynching you is almost as good. I'm also down to lynch Magma but I think this is less likely to hit.

[webadict]

I've got to be honest with you, you should see me/Toaster as 100% plausible. I have pulled ploys more insane than this.

Part of the reason why I believe it's Max is because he was literally against a No Launch at the beginning of Today.

Why should I support no-lynch if I think I know who scum is? Actually, lynching Toaster would divide the field best (that is, if he's scum, scum is X, if he's town, scum is Y, where X and Y are specific sets of people), but lynching you is almost as good. I'm also down to lynch Magma but I think this is less likely to hit.

It's not you that I'm worried about for plausibility. I don't think Toaster would want in on it.

Do you think that the fight, as is, is potentially indicative of a Toaster/Maximum Spin team? I don't. I think that's you putting your idea of Toaster into your head, because you also believe that Toaster would claim Null-Indicative as scum.

If anything, your saying that further reinforces the idea that at least one of you is Town.

[ToonyMan]

@Magma:

Not sure how available I'll be on the weekends.
ToonyMan
I feel that his recent posts have been shallow. His points against web are things that look ostensibly scummy, but lack substance. For example, who cares if web bandwagoned onto NJW? He had already expressed suspicion there.

To me this sounds you like you already knew what you were going to say ahead of time.

@Max:

Actually, lynching Toaster would divide the field best (that is, if he's scum, scum is X, if he's town, scum is Y, where X and Y are specific sets of people), but lynching you is almost as good. I'm also down to lynch Magma but I think this is less likely to hit.

I'm fine with either. Toaster is a more likely hit mechanically so maybe that's logically better, but Webadict is pissing me off.

[ToonyMan]

@Webadict:

Because there's a much better conclusion here than this:

Here's my theory:

Toaster is some kind of Ascetic Roleblocker/Jail Keeper.
Web is possibly lying about being a motion detector.

Toaster roleblocks/jailkeeps Max.
Roden gets roleblocked by something Toaster has, like a strong passive.
Webadict either actually motion detected Jack or is lying and did something else in secret.

This one is actually really silly: The obvious conclusion is that I ROLEBLOCKED RODEN. I mean, it's literally so obvious that it doesn't seem like I'd have to point it out, but I do.

I had thought of that, but mafia having two roleblockers sounds unlikely to me so I put down what I felt was what most likely happened. I also think it's really unlikely there's multiple millers. I remember you even saying there might be three town millers with the third staying quiet. Why would you say this unless you're trying to clear Toaster? I can see that you're trying now, which might be because you are posting from a computer finally.

[Maximum Spin]

I'm fine with either. Toaster is a more likely hit mechanically so maybe that's logically better, but Webadict is pissing me off.

I would just like to add that I consider "makes ToonyMan more effective" a side benefit of lynching webadict (in general, probably).

[Jim Groovester]

Normally I'd go through the day and prod a bunch of people about their points but I'm having a difficult time grasping the game because I'm a dunce so I'm going to start with how I feeeeeeel about it.

N1:
Jim does nothing
Toaster jails Maximum Spin
EuchreJack gives radio to Maximum Spin
Maximum Spin targets EuchreJack, is blocked
Roden tries to inspect Toaster, is blocked
webadict targets EuchreJack, gets three pings
Magma Mater does not block Roden
ToonyMan gives item to EuchreJack

Toaster's claim is supported by Maximum Spin's claim
ToonyMan's claim is supported by EuchreJack



Reads:

Town:
EuchreJack - Poking and prodding and trying to solve the game in his EuchreJack way and is actually starting to figure out how to play mafia instead of just being pure nonsense all the time.

Townish:
Maximum Spin - I dunno I just feel good about him. His interactions generally feel genuine and there isn't anything he's posted that made me raise my eyebrows.
Toaster - Is actually producing decent content during Day 2 and looks like he's trying to solve the game.

Null:
Roden - Is still here and is doing a very good job of not making an impression on me.
ToonyMan - Has it out for webadict and Toaster but I don't necessarily agree with his conclusions. His points about webadict are decent but the ones on Toaster don't make a lot of sense to me. webadict/Toaster doing a frame job on Maximum Spin is a weird conclusion to draw.

Scummish
webadict - On reread of Day 2 in my less emotionally turbulent state he comes across as more reasonable but still leaves me feeling uneasy.
Magma Mater - Bizarre arguments and points and reasons for suspicion.



Still working. Probably going to spend some time thinking about what teams make sense and poke at people with directed questions. If the day ended now I'd feel okay with a Magma Mater lynch or a webadict one. I'll avoid casting a vote since there's still time left in the day and I want to give myself some time to work a bit more.

[webadict]

@Webadict:

Because there's a much better conclusion here than this:

Here's my theory:

Toaster is some kind of Ascetic Roleblocker/Jail Keeper.
Web is possibly lying about being a motion detector.

Toaster roleblocks/jailkeeps Max.
Roden gets roleblocked by something Toaster has, like a strong passive.
Webadict either actually motion detected Jack or is lying and did something else in secret.

This one is actually really silly: The obvious conclusion is that I ROLEBLOCKED RODEN. I mean, it's literally so obvious that it doesn't seem like I'd have to point it out, but I do.

I had thought of that, but mafia having two roleblockers sounds unlikely to me so I put down what I felt was what most likely happened. I also think it's really unlikely there's multiple millers. I remember you even saying there might be three town millers with the third staying quiet. Why would you say this unless you're trying to clear Toaster? I can see that you're trying now, which might be because you are posting from a computer finally.

The only conclusion you should reasonably make here is that there's at least one Town from this pairing because otherwise the Mafia has two Roleblockers. Am I wrong? But, this also fails because I'm not a Roleblocker.

As for the three Millers thing, that was postulation. It's basically impossible, and if someone claimed a third Miller at this point, the chance of them being scum is... Well, I'd say 100%, but it literally doesn't matter, as the only claimed Cop is Roden, so the only other way it works is Magma Mater is also a Cop.

If Magma is a Cop, then them inspecting me is the only way I see myself living, because I've kinda got everything I'm gonna get out Today, and with me dying, it proves that a Multitasker is the only way the current game state works, and that breaks a lot of the mechanical aspects wide open. I've sort of accepted the inevitability of it. I think it's dumb, and I don't think it narrows down the scum, like, at all, but being dead is a lot less stressful than being alive.

I really only targeted EuchreJack because I figured he'd be alive Today, but, eh.

[EuchreJack]

I really only targeted EuchreJack because I figured he'd be alive Today, but, eh.

@Web: This bothers me because I don't understand why you would target someone that you thought would be alive (me), rather than someone that would likely be dead (Jim).  Also, why me again? What made me more likely to be alive than other players?  I had some doubts whether I was going to see Day 2, so why were you so sure of me rather than other players?

One other thing: Why is Web discussing Poison/Priming?  Nobody has said they were poisoned, and in the previous Fallacy games people knew when they were poisoned.

@WebAgain: What about Magma?  Town or scum? Why?

[webadict]

I really only targeted EuchreJack because I figured he'd be alive Today, but, eh.

@Web: This bothers me because I don't understand why you would target someone that you thought would be alive (me), rather than someone that would likely be dead (Jim).  Also, why me again? What made me more likely to be alive than other players?  I had some doubts whether I was going to see Day 2, so why were you so sure of me rather than other players?

One other thing: Why is Web discussing Poison/Priming?  Nobody has said they were poisoned, and in the previous Fallacy games people knew when they were poisoned.

@WebAgain: What about Magma?  Town or scum? Why?

Because my goal is primarily to clear myself, and claiming to action the dead guy usually makes me look like scum.