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[EuchreJack]

Time to put my money where my mouth is: Webadict

I don't like how quickly Web grabbed for that other role that NJW mentioned, especially since Web didn't know for sure that I wasn't softclaiming Watcher / hardclaiming Inspector as a bluff for actually being a Watcher.  It's what Web would do, if he was a Watcher...

[ToonyMan]

If NJW is faking their prime result that would mean the mafia are me and NJW, since the no kill would be from Roden delaying me. This is impossible from my POV and I think in general doesn't make sense.

I find this hard to believe.  Are you not capable of no-killing when it causes more confusion?  Like, I dunno, last round?

I had to nokill so I could strongkill on N2. FoU has said mafia were too weak last round so it is unlikely they would voluntarily nokill this round. But yes that does create a possibility of Toony/NJW.

[EuchreJack]

Hm, my apologies for all the flipflopping, but upon further thought, Web hasn't been counterclaimed, so if NJW is telling the truth then Web is town.
Roden or FOS Maximum Spin could easily be lying about their role.

[EuchreJack]

@Toonyman: I'm a bit behind, as you can tell.  How is Roden cleared in your mind?

[EuchreJack]

I mean, its not like Roden didn't try to get you lynched...

[Maximum Spin]

Does anyone have any kind of protect left to claim other than mine?

[EuchreJack]

Does anyone have any kind of protect left to claim other than mine?

I don't.  Keep the # of uses to yourself, ok?  We'll generally assume its not unlimited, so no need to explain exactly what limits exist on your protect role(s).
Also, if you have more than one, you only need to mention the one(s) that you've been hinting.

[EuchreJack]

Questions for Roden:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'd prefer not to get Vig'd but the choice is ultimately yours Max. I won't Delay you so don't worry about that being an issue.

If I had to pick it would be Toony or Web. It's too late to get into it more, but Toony's and Web's initial insistence that they could read other when last round Toony NK'd Web due to misreading him as town is giving me massive cognitive dissonance.

I was scum when I said that. I was making up stuff to try to appease Vector.

I can't read Web currently, he could be town but I kind of doubt it if NJW is town.

But Day 1 of this round, you both said you could read each other.

@Webadict:

I did originally want to poke Tric but I'm fine seeing how Toony reacts to pressure.

Nah, the right play here is that ToonyMan is actually Town. ToonyMan is so Town that I plan to pocket him without ever engaging with him. Thus, my play has begun. MUAHAHAHA!

My savior is here. Dude this shit is so easy, Webadict is town. Boom only six people left to choose from.

...As I was saying, people just assume I'm town on D1. Webadict especially likes to do this.

And only towards EoD did this change. Once Tric looked like a guaranteed elimination, you both started having more visible conflict with each other. And now that we have a green flip from Tric with no NK, the two of you are now suddenly at each other's throats even though you both voted Tric early. The final vote count puts both of you as the first two votes on Tric.

I don't buy your argument with each other, it just looks like distancing.

Btw, I Delayed you Toony. If nobody comes forward as being Poisoned, we're gonna have a major problem.

@Roden: Do you still think that Toonyman is the poisoner if nobody claims to be poisoned?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I want Web or NJW dead today so this aligns with my interests at least.

Webadict

Nope. You wouldn't read me or Tric this badly as town. This is just like your Matrix6 mafia play before you blew up and quit.

Yep, a guy with Investigation copying abilities is fucking scum, you got me.

Wanna try again? What did you do last Night?

I did nothing and nothing happened to me.

I don't have a night action. I'm a vengeful townie, if I'm lynched during the day I can choose to kill one player. I will be targeting Web if I'm lynched, still want to go?

I don't want to be wrong again if you're both town, but D1 doesn't make sense to me if both of you and Tric are all town. Tric should have been mafia. Can you explain your D1 behavior with regards to me please?

Ok, besides the fact that anyone claiming Vengeful while under pressure should just be policy lynched, your claim doesn't make sense for the set up.

Vector claims scum have Poison.

Max claims Vig.

NJW claims an Arsonist exists.

Toony claims Vengeful.

Somebody here is lying. There's no way there's four different killing methods in this game, since with scum sharing a kill method it would mean five out of eight players this round can kill. That's a bonkers set up and I don't believe it.

@Max: I didn't target you, did you just choose not to shoot last night? What exactly is your kill method?

@Roden: Do you still think that we have too many claimed killing methods?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'd prefer not to get Vig'd but the choice is ultimately yours Max. I won't Delay you so don't worry about that being an issue.

If I had to pick it would be Toony or Web. It's too late to get into it more, but Toony's and Web's initial insistence that they could read other when last round Toony NK'd Web due to misreading him as town is giving me massive cognitive dissonance.

I was scum when I said that. I was making up stuff to try to appease Vector.

I can't read Web currently, he could be town but I kind of doubt it if NJW is town.

But Day 1 of this round, you both said you could read each other.

@Webadict:

I did originally want to poke Tric but I'm fine seeing how Toony reacts to pressure.

Nah, the right play here is that ToonyMan is actually Town. ToonyMan is so Town that I plan to pocket him without ever engaging with him. Thus, my play has begun. MUAHAHAHA!

My savior is here. Dude this shit is so easy, Webadict is town. Boom only six people left to choose from.

...As I was saying, people just assume I'm town on D1. Webadict especially likes to do this.

I wasn't being serious when I called Webadict town there at the start of the day. I put in the acronym tag that Web likes to call me locktown as town and mafia.

Btw, I Delayed you Toony. If nobody comes forward as being Poisoned, we're gonna have a major problem.

Excellent. I can't confirm you did this, but I believe you did. If nobody claims the prime on Vector then it's likely neither me or Roden did it.

Of course, if this becomes true for everyone then Webadict will have to admit the mafia are masking their primer somehow.

Ok, that's true, even if I did Delay your Poison, you couldn't have Primed. Jack basically soft claimed Watcher, which would explain the Inspect NJW saw visit Vector. If Jack denies visiting Vector then that'll be a problem, but if he confirms then everybody is accounted for except Max.

Unless somebody is misvouching, Max is confirmed as the Primer.

@Roden: Is Max still confirmed as the Primer?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Did Max ever hardclaim vig? I think that was just a play/speculating. Otherwise Max is probably lying, but I don't think that makes them mafia just because of that.

Vector is speculating about the poison and hasn't answered my question from D1.

NJW is probably telling the truth that the mafia have a prime/arson for this game.

Isn't Arsonist usually 3P? If we believe Vector, which you claimed to yesterday, then scum have Poison. Why would scum have Poison and Prime/Arson? Both are slow kills and I don't see scum having access to both at the same time. Plus too many actions are being confirmed, Max has to be the Primer in this scenario.

If nobody claims being Poisoned, then my Delay confirms you were the Poisoner or Vector just straight up lied. But if they lied how could they be Primed? Only scum has a reason to lie about the killing method, town!Vector has zero reason to lie though. And if they've been Primed then I think this just confirms that they are town and telling the truth. Unless you're suggesting scum can pick one or the other killing method? Which if true, it just invalidates Vector's role if they're town since scum can just use Arson to NK in that scenario.

What I think is more likely here is that Max is either some weird Arson Vig, or he's 3P Arsonist. And the latter makes much more sense to me.

What doesn't make sense to me is why the Primer would target Vector when Jack basically claimed Watcher and said he would target Vector. We really need to see his results here.

@Roden: Do you still believe in a 3P arsonist? If not, is the arsonist town, mafia, or mafia ally?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I voyeur'd Vector and there were three other abilities used on them: They were inspected, targeted with an ability called "Prodigious study"and primed.

Fascinating. I happen to know someone who visited Vector, but I want to see if that person will claim first.

I knew, for reasons presumably similar to Vector's knowledge of poisoning, that someone has priming. I tried to indicate that to Toonyman ("prime suspect") on a hunch that that was his death-related role.

Question for today: If you could trade your life for TricMagic's, would you?

Not reading all the posts yet, but:

Did Max ever hardclaim vig? I think that was just a play/speculating. Otherwise Max is probably lying, but I don't think that makes them mafia just because of that.

I did not. I can kill someone though. Potentially.

It's typically assumed that if you can kill and you're not mafia, then you're either a Vig or 3P. So what are you admitting to here?

Also I don't believe that you know someone who visited Vector. There's nobody left who could. I Delayed Toony, so both of us are accounted for. NJW claimed Voyeur, Web claimed Study, and Vector likely didn't self-Prime. So either you or Jack is the Inspect, and Jack soft claimed Watcher yesterday. Everyone is accounted for except you. Unless NJW and Web are covering for each other, you're the Primer. Unless Jack denies visiting Vector, this is just confirmed.

@Roden: Were you satisfied with Max's claim as tracking me?  Does this indicate Max's alignment?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Scumteam is Roden and ToonyMan, calling it now.

I'm struggling to understand this. Do you think Toony told me to randomly hard bus him in the mafia PT? What am I supposed to gain from this?

@Roden: How relevant is the discussion of bussing?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's typically assumed that if you can kill and you're not mafia, then you're either a Vig or 3P. So what are you admitting to here?

Being a certain kind of a JOAT, actually. It's a Fallacy setup, what're you expecting?

Also I don't believe that you know someone who visited Vector. There's nobody left who could. I Delayed Toony, so both of us are accounted for. NJW claimed Voyeur, Web claimed Study, and Vector likely didn't self-Prime. So either you or Jack is the Inspect, and Jack soft claimed Watcher yesterday. Everyone is accounted for except you. Unless NJW and Web are covering for each other, you're the Primer. Unless Jack denies visiting Vector, this is just confirmed.

All right, since you're already most of the way there, I'll admit that I tracked Jack and saw that he visited Vector.

Ok, a JOAT can be a Vig. So you are claiming Vig then.

If you're claiming JOAT Vig/Tracker then it sounds incredibly likely that you're 3P Arsonist, or possibly a souped up Mafia Ally. At this point we just wait for Jack to post. Vector too actually, we don't know if either of them were Poisoned yet.

One last: My role definitely makes it plausible to me that mafia do actually have dual poison/priming. Certainly I can confirm they both exist in the game.

Prime, but not Ignite?

This is just an Arsonist claim lol.

No question, just reminder of your push on Maximum Spin.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Scumteam is Roden and ToonyMan, calling it now.

I'm struggling to understand this. Do you think Toony told me to randomly hard bus him in the mafia PT? What am I supposed to gain from this?

I mean, sure, why not? That's something I've done.
Are you interested in answering my general question above?

I did, give me time to respond to things.

And obviously mafia bus but why would I immediately bus him today? I literally opened up today by accusing him of being the Poisoner. If we were collaborating on a bus I'd assume Toony would make it look convincing, but he's barely even fighting me on this. You don't think that's weird? If anything, at this point I'm pretty sure he knows he got caught and is trying to make it look like a level 1 scum bus attempt to take me down with him.

Scumteam is Roden and ToonyMan, calling it now.

I'm struggling to understand this. Do you think Toony told me to randomly hard bus him in the mafia PT? What am I supposed to gain from this?

I mean... Hardbus? Your bus had no wheels on it, Broden. I'll call it a bus when he's at L-1. But, also, yes, ToonyMan probably would absolutely tell you to do that.

He'd tell me to immediately accuse him of being the Poisoner and that he was going to flop like a fish once I accused him? What alternate universe Toony have you been playing with?

@Roden: Why didn't you ask Maximum Spin to clarify? I hardly understood what was the "General Question Above".  If you do understand what Maximum Spin is asking you, what is your answer?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's typically assumed that if you can kill and you're not mafia, then you're either a Vig or 3P. So what are you admitting to here?

Being a certain kind of a JOAT, actually. It's a Fallacy setup, what're you expecting?

Also I don't believe that you know someone who visited Vector. There's nobody left who could. I Delayed Toony, so both of us are accounted for. NJW claimed Voyeur, Web claimed Study, and Vector likely didn't self-Prime. So either you or Jack is the Inspect, and Jack soft claimed Watcher yesterday. Everyone is accounted for except you. Unless NJW and Web are covering for each other, you're the Primer. Unless Jack denies visiting Vector, this is just confirmed.

All right, since you're already most of the way there, I'll admit that I tracked Jack and saw that he visited Vector.

Cool. This means either Max is telling the truth and Jack is the primer. Or that Max is lying to get Jack mislynched...except Max is a deadman if Jack flips town so lying like this isn't worth the trade.

Got anything to say to that Jack? Web is your partner isn't he?

Oh sorry, Max wouldn't be targeting Vector in this case...

Still, Max is not as suspicious as Web or Jack in this scenario.

For this to be true then NJW is lying about the Inspect visit...except NJW can only lie in this scenario if he's paired with Web. But Max is also claiming Jack visited Vector. This thought process doesn't make sense.

@Roden: Could you explain the errors in the thought process? I'm not sure I see the errors.

[EuchreJack]

Does anyone have any kind of protect left to claim other than mine?

Also, I certainly don't mind if you wait towards later in the game day to reveal whatever protect claims you are going to make. Or even avoid claiming if you're not under any real pressure to do so, as my initial concern was before I did the vote counts.
@Everyone else: Protect claims will be more believable if you make them before Maximum Spin, not after. 
Although Max has only hinted at a couple, so those are the ones you should be claiming, and maybe not other ones.

[EuchreJack]

Hm, I think placing a 2nd vote on Webadict should be divine.

[EuchreJack]

Question for today: If you could trade your life for TricMagic's, would you?

Nah.  Tric's role actually has negative utility when compared to my role, as it produces useless info.  Plus I thought Tric was scum.  I'm answering this question based upon the frame of reference that Tric would be here with their history and role instead of my being here with my history and role.

Frankly, if Tric wasn't lynched yesterday, with their role and history they would probably be lynched today.  I really should re-examine D1, see how the lynch of Tric actually occurred.  I had remarked back in D1 that I thought the seeds of doubt that I had regarding Tric came from Web/Toonyman.  Maybe they were in turn influenced.

[EuchreJack]

Question for today: If you could trade your life for TricMagic's, would you?

Nah.  Tric's role actually has negative utility when compared to my role, as it produces useless info.  Plus I thought Tric was scum.  I'm answering this question based upon the frame of reference that Tric would be here with their history and role instead of my being here with my history and role.

Frankly, if Tric wasn't lynched yesterday, with their role and history they would probably be lynched today.  I really should re-examine D1, see how the lynch of Tric actually occurred.  I had remarked back in D1 that I thought the seeds of doubt that I had regarding Tric came from Web/Toonyman.  Maybe they were in turn influenced.

Actually, I reread the role, and think Tric's role is better than mine, even if it interferes with my role (which doesn't matter, as under this hypo I'd dead).

Sandwich Vendor (town):
(Night) Distribute [target]: You give your target a sandwich. They are informed that they received a sandwich during the Night.

After two nights, that role should allow the player to become confirmed town. 
Day 2 they say: "I am a sandwich vendor, please confirm that you got a sandwich"
Day 3 they say: "I gave my sandwich to [insert player name]"  That player confirms, and they are now confirmed town...ish.

Still, I died first last game, so no I want to play this game for a bit.  Sorry to be selfish.

I wonder if Tric forgives me.  Will Web forgive me if he should flip town?  More importantly, will my fellow townies forgive me?

[EuchreJack]

The buildup of the Lynch on Tric:
Maximum Spin first asks me about a non-existent TricMagic post.  Probably a random probing question.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm assuming Toony is making a play here, I don't take him to be the type use RNG as an actual case against somebody. Toony, what's your role?

@Roden: Your thoughts declaring roles?

It's been a consistently pro town game winning strategy to claim roles or at least half claim, mafia doesn't really get much wiggle room. Do you feel hesitant to claim this time?

I'm a Delayer btw.

Roden: How confident do you feel that you can recognise Toony's scum play after the last game?

I don't feel confident at all lol. His scum play doesn't really seem that different to his town play, even his tone read the same to me until the endgame. He's really good at flying under the radar especially early on, so early pressure on him honestly might be a good idea from now on.

I did originally want to poke Tric but I'm fine seeing how Toony reacts to pressure.

Roden casually throws in a FOS on TricMagic, hiding it by voting Toonyman instead (and by mostly pushing ON Toonyman later).

The fact they are using it to hide. By saying what their role is so early without promting, us being delayed would be seen as normal, town trying to stop the kill. But all it does is delay us, resulting in mafia being able to take advantage of it. It's also trying to get roles to reveal, giving them options on who to delay.

Put simply, just because they revealed, does not make them town. If anything Delayer is a very negative role regardless of who has it. For one, it would ruin my own role's ability if it's used on me N1.

No thanks. TricMagic.

Web then jumps on some of Tric's Famous Poor Reasoning, and places the first vote.

Web, for god's sake, tell me if I'm jumping to the wrong conclusion here.

[webadict]

@Euchre, you are literally freaking out right now, so you need to stop and take a deep breath.

I am an Investigative Student. My ability is called Prodigious Study. NJW has shown I targeted Vector with this ability. I even explained my reasoning for doing so. This should be construed as confirmed.

I want you to think really, really, really hard on why you think I would have an ability like Prodigious Study if I were scum (which I would have as no one counterclaimed me.) You can call that WIFOM if you want, but fucking Occam's Razor says that that ability is Town as shit, because I am Town as shit.

I explained why I voted for TricMagic. I would probably do it again. I don't even feel bad about it.

I want you to think who I would have to have as my partner if I were scum. It cannot be Vector or NJW without ridiculousness. It probably wouldn't be ToonyMan. It isn't you, fucking clearly. So it would be Roden or Max, yes? In fact, it would probably for sure be Max. Toony, on the other hand, constantly is trying to include everyone as my scumpartner, including NJW and Vector, who make no sense because he has no interest in solving the game, but rather living.

ToonyMan. tried to push an NJW vs me fight at the beginning of the Day. This is because he probably poisoned one of EuchreJack or Maximum Spin. If he was delayed, this further incentivizes him to vote one of me or the person he didn't get delayed-poisoned on. You'll notice that no one has claimed being poisoned (Which I have no clue if anyone would be notified of this, but given ToonyMan being poisoned in NSVM2, I assume that you do get notified), and Roden delaying ToonyMan, it makes no sense if you believe Vector (which you should, because Priming), to not vote ToonyMan. (This is also why I think ToonyMan and Roden are a team.)

I am not omnipotent. ToonyMan has to treat me like I am because I won't fall for his inane garbage that he did last Round where he openly speculates on how anyone but him could be the scum, in spite of only TWO PEOPLE HAVING FULLY UNCONFIRMED ROLES (ToonyMan and TricMagic).

The evidence is pretty clear. It is almost assuredly ToonyMan. And his partner is probably Roden.

[webadict]

I had to nokill so I could strongkill on N2. FoU has said mafia were too weak last round so it is unlikely they would voluntarily nokill this round. But yes that does create a possibility of Toony/NJW.

Why would NJW ever claim Priming on Vector as scum?! That makes no sense!

I would be a prime suspect of this prime action, however Roden has cleared me with their delay. This is why I find it unlikely that Roden is mafia. What this means Jack is that if I believe you the mafia team is exactly Web/Max. (assuming two mafia which I suspect)

PPE:

Toonyman

Cool. This confirms at least two mafia should be voting me right now.

No one was poisoned! If Vector is Town, this fucking confirms you're Mafia!

Lol were you trying to quickhammer me?

Everyone is Mafia but you, the delayed Poisoner, yes?

You pretty much have to claim one of Vector or Roden are lying, no?