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[ToonyMan]

Anyway, my point is that you shouldn't vote for ToonyMan because it's not ToonyMan.

Why have you decided to not interact with me in this game Web? That's no fun.

I like your reads, but I feel like they're really familiar.

...Have you noticed anything with any of the players so far?

Making assumptions is a choice!

Having seen Max's play now in the last round this looks exactly the same to me. That's why I think they're probably town. It's kind of whatever now, but you'll likely see me much more openminded if say they're trying to explain themselves on Day 2 after people think they're lying about their claims.

[Maximum Spin]

I really don't like people making assumptions about things I didn't say, but I will tell you this so you don't have to assume: I am only one person.

[EuchreJack]

Wow, webadict can't even be bothered to create their own reads list.  Just copied Toonyman's list.  Lazy.

EuchreJack's Reads List:
Vector: Warned us that Scum has Poison.  That would be a Town Tell, unless nobody claims to be poisoned D2.  Nobody has counter-claimed to be a Town day poisoner.
Toonyman: I'll admit, this mostly comes down to Gambler's Fallacy, but does seem to be playing different than last round.  More tricky methodical, less pushy.
Roden: Obviously burned pretty hard by mafia!Toonyman.  Claimed D1, like usual.  Claiming their particular role of Delayer is a sub-optimal D1 claim, as usual. Sub-optimal since he can't trick anyone by announcing that he's a Delayer later on, although can (and should) give info D2.  Could be cover for a Poisoner? Still trying to work that one out, but that seems risky to pull off.  We'll see on D2 & D3.
Maximum Spin: Seem like standard D1 Maximum Spin, after the cobwebs have been cleaned off the sentient AI that is Maximum Spin.  A bit too scientific for D1, should be an asset to town D2 on.  Null-slightly town (since similar behavior last game when town).
webadict: Not only can not be bothered to post their own reads list, they had the gall to copy someone else's homework reads list.  But typical Webadict.  Subdued methodical behavior does remind me more of Town!Webadict than Mafia!Webadict.  Straight Null.
TricMagic: Maybe if I scum-read you, you'll play to your potential?  Typical TricMagic mistakes, but is smart enough to "hide in audacity".  Sorta Scummy.
NJW2000:  Yes, suspicions were based upon Gambler's Fallacy, but I sense an aggression that was absent in other games.  It's like you're trying to smear players, rather than find scum.  First post was quite scummy:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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Good stuff Toony. The chance of the roles being assigned exactly as they were in the last three games is already 1/(7!)(7!)(8!), in other words 0.000000000097638%, so your case looks pretty watertight already. More seriously, I know what this play is and I don't like engaging with it.

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This is bad logic, and you were right to say so last game. I see your point about the probing Max thing, in that you can't really expect to read someone whose town game is so deeply scum-sided, but generally speaking I don't like excuses for not scumhunting people, Jack. If you think one of Max and I are scum, you should at least be asking me questions.



Ok, let's try and discuss something that isn't just the gambler's fallacy. Deep breaths.

Vector: Assuming there are two mafia, rather than a mafia and a mafia-ally like last game, how much of a difference do you think coordination during the day will make? In a game as chaotic as these have been, do you think they'd have a chance at controlling the flow of play and the narrative?

Roden: How confident do you feel that you can recognise Toony's scum play after the last game?

Webadict: How are you planning to take advantage of the fact that half the players here are given to semi-truthfully roleclaiming almost immediately D1 come hell or high water?

TricMagic: do you think scum will be looking to nolynch today? Why/why not?

MaximumSpin: Why ask questions about a post that hasn't happened yet?

I underlined the areas I think existed purely to smear other players rather than actually find scum.  Also, TricMagic never answered NJW's question, yet NJW let it drop.  Vector's question also remained unanswered, yet NJW dropped it, although you can see I found it to be a scummy question to ask, since its hard to answer without looking like scum.

@NJW: You like to get questions when you're getting scumread, so why did you let TricMagic's question drop? Why did you let Vector's question drop?

[EuchreJack]

I really don't like people making assumptions about things I didn't say, but I will tell you this so you don't have to assume: I am only one person.

Ok Max, on these forums we use the pronoun "They/them/their" if we don't know if someone is self-declared as a male or female.  I think you've self-declared as male, so He/His/Him are the pronouns we should be using folks.  If you respect the They/Them/Their, I guess we should also respect the He/His/Him and She/Hers/Her.

[EuchreJack]

To be fair, ... I've got a headache, wha... Right, RVS.Unvote.

I got nothing right now. Other than a headache and too much web.

FOS TricMagic, because Web has actually been a lot less intense than other games.  Hardly see this round as the one in which to be complaining of Web's audacity.

[Maximum Spin]

Ok Max, on these forums we use the pronoun "They/them/their" if we don't know if someone is self-declared as a male or female.  I think you've self-declared as male, so He/His/Him are the pronouns we should be using folks.  If you respect the They/Them/Their, I guess we should also respect the He/His/Him and She/Hers/Her.

I honestly don't care what you call me as long as it isn't that. I guess, really, I don't care that much if you keep calling me that either but I'm going to keep saying it.
But yeah, I'm male.

[EuchreJack]

Ok Max, on these forums we use the pronoun "They/them/their" if we don't know if someone is self-declared as a male or female.  I think you've self-declared as male, so He/His/Him are the pronouns we should be using folks.  If you respect the They/Them/Their, I guess we should also respect the He/His/Him and She/Hers/Her.

I honestly don't care what you call me as long as it isn't that. I guess, really, I don't care that much if you keep calling me that either but I'm going to keep saying it.
But yeah, I'm male.

Good to know, I'll try to keep it in mind, hopefully others will as well.  We've sort of gotten in the habit around here of calling everyone They/them/their, so apologies bro/dude/man.

[Maximum Spin]

Ok Max, on these forums we use the pronoun "They/them/their" if we don't know if someone is self-declared as a male or female.  I think you've self-declared as male, so He/His/Him are the pronouns we should be using folks.  If you respect the They/Them/Their, I guess we should also respect the He/His/Him and She/Hers/Her.

I honestly don't care what you call me as long as it isn't that. I guess, really, I don't care that much if you keep calling me that either but I'm going to keep saying it.
But yeah, I'm male.

Good to know, I'll try to keep it in mind, hopefully others will as well.  We've sort of gotten in the habit around here of calling everyone They/them/their, so apologies bro/dude/man.

Thank you. Like I said, it doesn't bother me that much, but it does a little.

[ToonyMan]

My previous post about Max wasn't directed at them, but towards the "crowd". Otherwise I would have used "you" like I did with Web.

The same way my current post is towards everyone.

I usually stick an @ at the top of a quote when I'm directing towards someone, but not always. I'm here to determine a player's alignment, not who they are behind the screen. I'll respect someone's wishes if I'm aware but otherwise I'll probably go with they or he by default, generally the former nowadays.

[NJW2000]

Spoiler: replies to posts of varying levels of inanity (click to show/hide)

I'll throw in my role.  I will say that I can tell if someone was targeted by an action.  Anyone else want to volunteer some info?

i will not be volunteering information unless Forced to, as my role can determine If others are lying. Or maybe it can't, who can tell? I'm not a lie detector. the mafia will naturally assume this is a Soft/Hardclaim, and they'll be wrong. it's actually a fAkeCLAiM, NERDS!

EJ asks generally if anyone else is going to claim, doesn't even put an "@all" in front of it, and you actively feel the need to reply with this ambiguous, could-have-been-breadcrumbing-anything, post that requires people's attention but doesn't actually offer any information.

 I'm not asking why you're not claiming, although thank you for such a detailed answer to that question. I'm asking why you bothered to write anything further than "no", if you had to reply at all. And why you wrote something that looks like activity and takes up people's mental space, despite saying nothing. Because I don't see what this post does for town. I can see what it might do for scum!web, however.

I have no idea if you'll stick to your not-claiming today. I'd say it's pretty NAI in either case, there are roles you shouldn't claim as either alignment and L-1 isn't a death sentence. Not really as interesting an announcement as you seem to think it is.

Clams and clams and fish and clams.

What does this even mean? Are you just deflecting any sr I have on you with humour? Because again, that's what happened when I took stuff up with you D1 on the last round. I understand arrogant fecklessness may just be your standard playstyle, but could you at least answer my question?

In any case, Web's declaration upstaged by an exciting claim from Vector. @Web, going to tell us why you don't believe them?

No reason. I just don't believe Vector. Do you believe Vector?

I don't see an advantage scum would gain from saying that, so right now I think they're probably telling the truth.

@NJW: You like to get questions when you're getting scumread, so why did you let TricMagic's question drop? Why did you let Vector's question drop?

Why do I not give a toss about RVS-stage first post questions asked only to get discussion started? Take a wild guess. You think I actually want Tric's opinions on mafia theory or something? You think I can be bothered to chase Vector of all people down for questions I don't care about the answers to, when they haven't had time to post more than a few lines? Actually interesting play has happened since I asked those questions - claims and so on. If you've never seen someone open RVS stage with a bunch of questions, read a few games.

And as for your suggestion that I'm smearing max by calling his town play scum-sided... did you even read the last round beyond the point where you died? He completely refused to specify D2 that his commuter was voluntary/x-shot. Whatever the reason for that, it didn't favour town. People scumread me for having a reasonable position towards Max's play last round, my position was proven correct, and you're still getting hung up on it.

It's a good point, although would mafia!Roden try to push a vote on me for Day 1?

I suppose they haven't really pushed me at all so that could be suspicious, but...

Roden hasn't been trying to push a vote on you at all. He hasn't been doing anything with his vote. It's just a vote sitting on you. There was no accompanying interrogation (I don't count "what's your role", that's a weak question you don't have to answer). That's why what he did was suspect. An attempt to look active that does nothing. It should be clear to Roden that they're not going to put you under pressure by putting your name in red for the declared reason of putting you under pressure.

 

Well, I guess we're approaching the 75% mark rapidly, so it's worth posting reads. In summary: I want to lynch Web, or failing that within Roden/Toony/Max.

Spoiler: readslist (click to show/hide)

EuchreJack: Town, extremely hung up on my first post in which I FoS'd him, constantly asking other people to post their reads on me, asking obviously pointless questions, I really wish this stuff was at least alignment indicative here. But nah, I don't think scum!EJ could fake this play, or would fixate so hard.

Vector: Town thus far, I don't see scum wandering in and simply announcing "scum have poison, more later". Obviously a read subject to change when we see more content.

MaxSpin: Null. I'm not going to make guesses about Max's alignment D1. Would still be very happy to eliminate them if nothing better is available.

TricMagic: Null. Aggressive focus on Roden, frustration at Webadict, very little else. I sympathise with his scumreading someone because of a claim he thinks shouldn't have been made, but the case he presented was really not good. Not enough information here to read Tric, although if the Roden thing is all they do today they'll be a prime elimination target.

Toonyman: weak lean scum, he's been defending people more than usual, I think. Has a whole lot of townreads too, but he'll do that as either alignment. No strong read on him, nor do I expect to have one D1.

Roden: Lean scum. Not much to say here, they seem to be sticking to their guns on the whole "putting people's names in a colour and doing nothing else is pressuring them" idea. Claim largely NAI I think. Need to see more content but right now it isn't looking good.

Webadict: scum. I don't trust the whole "this is a claim, actually no it isn't lol" stuff, for reasons I've explained. I don't think Web posts without an agenda - reread the last game. Max thinks they're exchanging banter about Wittgenstein or whatever, Web is actually using it as a way to communicate with their partner. His posts have reasons behind them. Also a slightly too strong reaction here followed by a refusal to actually answer my question doesn't look great. Also is engaging with Max on his philosophies of mafia, which was a good way to waste Town's time last round.

Back later today but for now I need to take a break and get on with life.

[EuchreJack]

Well, I guess we're approaching the 75% mark rapidly, so it's worth posting reads. In summary: I want to lynch Web, or failing that within Roden/Toony/Max.


...

TricMagic: Null. Aggressive focus on Roden, frustration at Webadict, very little else. I sympathise with his scumreading someone because of a claim he thinks shouldn't have been made, but the case he presented was really not good. Not enough information here to read Tric, although if the Roden thing is all they do today they'll be a prime elimination target.

NJW: Isn't it unusual for you to want to lynch one out of five people (in an eight person game)? Aren't you at least a little bit more specific D1 in previous games?

[webadict]

@Max: They/them/theirs is also a singular pronoun according to, like, every dictionary. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/they

@NJW: Ya know, NJW, I actually would think you were Town here, but you're trying awfully hard to compare my behavior to last round. There's 3 issues that I see with that:

One, I wasn't full scum last round. I was doing a lot of fishing for clams, but I was also leaving lots of hints. But, as not full scum, my behavior was best described as Survivor. I had no kill. I was not in the informed minority, regardless of what you think.

Two, you're trying awfully hard to justify your vote on me. I don't actually know why you would need to. I feel like my playstyle amounts itself to easy evidence. It should be simple. If I do everything on purpose, which I do, then why do you need to overanalyze my behavior?

Three, your comparisons are, objectively speaking, wrong. I actually poked Max because it's hilarious and Max is objectively funny unintentionally, but I also wanted to see what you'd do about it. The answer, naturally, was disappointing, in that you point it out but don't take a more aggressive stance like last time. If I wanted to waste Town's time, I'd start engaging with ToonyMan, which I desperately want to, but need to hold back on account of we're both the same alignment, and that is Town. It's really that simple, and yet you also list ToonyMan as scum. I find it unusual that you're using my behavior from last game and not his behavior from last game. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Perhaps you couldn't find any matching scum behavior. Perhaps you wanted to use my potential scummitude to incriminate ToonyMan without any of that hassle. If I flip Town, how does that impact your read of ToonyMan?

Frankly, NJW, I don't like answering your questions because I have answered your questions already. It's why I go into rant mode. I get carried away with monologs, because I feel like if you haven't been paying enough attention, then you, frankly, deserve it, almost like chastising a child. Is that wrong of me? Assuredly so. But scummy? No. Could I be clearer in my answers? No, absolutely not, the answers are right there under ten tons of bullshit. Here is your shovel.

[ToonyMan]

I want Tric dead more than NJW: TricMagic

Have a better sense of the game now today Tric? I would like to know how you feel about everyone.

[TricMagic]

Don't trust NJW or webadict. Do think Maxspin isn't playing off his d1 meta. Jack is off, but not that off.

I'd say Roden is weird, but I'm weird. And it's not any weirder than last game. Also, why do you want me dead Toony? I get the feeling cause I am someone who would last till the last day otherwise, cause people think I can be swayed to make the wrong choice.

Only person I forgot is Vector. Unless we have some weird 1 mafia setup again, I trust their claim poison is in play, so slight town-read. So right now you, NJW, and webadict are the most suspicious to me.

I'd be fine with a NJW/Toony lynch. Mostly cause web is being web right now.

[ToonyMan]

Tric, as town in R1 and R3 you always claimed quite readily at the start of Day 1. As mafia in Round 2 you were vague and reluctant until Vector pushed you later in the day. This is the same as R2.

In addition, you voted Roden for claiming early and readily, despite the fact this is something you do as town and should feel some sort of sympathy towards that kind of play. I fakeclaimed Gunsmith at the start of R3 and you were completely taken in and felt I was likely town because of it, where's that now Tric?

Lastly, you were mafia partners with Roden in R2 so you should possibly have a better feel for their mafia play while a game is ongoing. You're in a better position than most of us to read into Roden's D1 claim, which by the way they've done in the D1 of every round and is not alignment indicative at best from my point of view.

It seems you dropped the Roden case at least and are targeting me and NJW. Are you trying to bus NJW here? That's also in your meta...