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[ToonyMan]

I apologize for my emotional ramblings at the end of Day 2. My thoughts were scattered and the votes were scattered. NJW is correct that we should have lynched inside the NJW/Tric/Jack pool. Although I do still believe Jack is just town.

[TricMagic]

... I kinda wonder why'd you push for the double elimination NJW. Would make more sense just to poison me and skip the lynch.

I should really read more though. Panicking over nothing. Skip Day. Well, go ahead Toony. Note that you're next NJW.

Not that it would mean much, but note Vector is still likely your partner in this. Or it's Jack/Roden, but eh.

[TricMagic]

Also, I really am not used to it ending during the day. Was a bit sick so I lay down and played video games. Then you come in and tie things on my vote. You're either really confident or saving your partner. Night.

[ToonyMan]

I'm also quite sure mafia didn't or were not able to kill again last night, how can I determine this?

Jack isn't dead. Jack should have always been the kill last night. I wrote in bold over and over that Jack would be the kill 100% of the time last night. Instead NJW was hit by Lovers, so yeah. That means NJW is town...unless someone else wants to claim they were hit by Lovers too last night? Any takers? Roden?

One mafia inside of NJW/Jack/Tric.

Jack is always town. NJW is most likely town.

Tric is mafia.

Vector/Met/Roden are the remainder, assuming one more mafia who is the most likely here?

Vector? Hardly, they've been on Tric's ass this whole game.

Met? Maybe, but also maybe not.

Roden?  ...I will look into this.

[EuchreJack]

Hm, I was thinking again about Tric's claimed ability, and it seemed odd that Tric would chose to Redirect Toonyman's actions onto me, since Toonyman had no claimed action role.  Redirecting either my or Roden's ability would prove our roles, and redirecting me onto Roden (or visa versa) would make sense if we were the suspected scum team.

Assuming that Tric is on a mafia team with the ability to link town players to die upon Tric's elimination, lets look at the claims of some other, less mentioned players:
Vector's claim makes more sense, as it basically makes Vector the semi-immune to the mafia's Lovers plague.
Met's claim makes less sense, since how do the words of the dead help when mafia is supposed to link up all the town and jester their own?
...and remember who saved Met from the lynch D1? Tric!

Met's been mainly playing as a survivor, and Tric tried to eliminate me D2, when I tried to eliminate Met on D1.

So I'm thinking Tric's partner is Met.  Remember, for mafia to "win" with the elimination of Tric on the lynch, there must be another mafia player and that mafia player must outlive the town players who only die on the next day.

Just to Alternate Theory to NJW2000's theory isn't buried, I'm repeat it: NJW2000 is lying mafia.

... I kinda wonder why'd you push for the double elimination NJW. Would make more sense just to poison me and skip the lynch.

I should really read more though. Panicking over nothing. Skip Day. Well, go ahead Toony. Note that you're next NJW.

Not that it would mean much, but note Vector is still likely your partner in this. Or it's Jack/Roden, but eh.

Hey folks, which name is missing? 

[EuchreJack]

Metruption

[ToonyMan]

Hm, I was thinking again about Tric's claimed ability, and it seemed odd that Tric would chose to Redirect Toonyman's actions onto me, since Toonyman had no claimed action role.  Redirecting either my or Roden's ability would prove our roles, and redirecting me onto Roden (or visa versa) would make sense if we were the suspected scum team.

Yeah it would make more sense wouldn't it? It's another illogical choice from Tric.

I think the main reason a mafia!Tric would have to make up the "I redirected Toony to Jack" claim is that NJW outed the fact that Tric targeted me on N1. NJW and Tric are at odds with each other.



Let's think about how a Tric/Roden mafia team would decide their target on N2:

Toony - they have already lover'd me
Tric - no reason to target self
Roden - no reason to target partner
Vector - immune for at least one cycle
Met - already kind of suspicious, could easily get lynched on D3
NJW - a good target, the least likely to get lynched between Met and Jack
Jack - a decent target, not as suspicious as Met but more likely to get lynched than NJW anyway

Mafia don't want to Lovers someone who is likely to get lynched. NJW was the least likely to be lynched between NJW/Jack/Met. This is why NJW was hit with Lovers last night.

Metruption

I admit it's possible Tric is partners with Met, but Roden seems more likely to me. I will try to elaborate in the future.

[ToonyMan]

@Toonyman: Does your Lovers work the same as NJW's, or differently?

It is the same. In fact, NJW gave information that I never even stated on D2. He definitely knows fully how the effect works.

[Roden]

Ugh. There's the same problem as before: only I know that one of Tric and Euchre must be scum. Possibly there's a workaround here.


Ok. Scum know this information, so I'll make it public immediately.

I was hit with the lovers effect. I die the day after if Tric is eliminated. Note that it has to be through elimination for me to die. This is why I'd like Toonyman to daykill Tric, while we lynch EuchreJack.


Either Tric is doing the lovers'ing, in which case it looks like the ability is one-target, or EuchreJack is part of a scumteam and has a two-target ability.

In either case, Roden must have falsely reported a night result, unless someone interfered with a tracking action. At this point, I'm pretty sure Roden's scum. (I would actually consider us killing both me and Roden today, but I guess that might be taking a risk that their night result was due to a redirect or similar.)


That's all the information I have. I couldn't use my ability tonight because of the caveats FoU put on it.

I haven't faked any of my actions or results. I don't know what else to say, I've only told the truth and if you're town you'll just have to eat crow in the post game.

Do you want to know why I asked you to target Tric? For one, it's bcause it's becoming more and more clear you're just tunneled on me, and I hoped hard proof would force you to actually scum hunt. But the second reason is that Tric's plays have been wild and unpredictable, and by forcing scum into a corner through mechanical clears we might actually make some headway. Because even if Tric is scum, we could mechanically prove whether or not Tric is doing Lovers shenanigans or if his partner was the one doing it.

What I don't understand is why you aren't considering Met and Vector as potential scum, nor why you haven't considered that scum might have a Ninja. With two movement investigation roles, it makes a lot more sense for scum to have a Ninja, especially if they can't directly kill and if Toony's role can neutralize their apparent only kill option.

I know Jack 100% didn't do the first Lovers because he only visited Toony Night 1. We know Tric doesn't have Ninja because you saw him visit Toony Night 1, and he 100% did not target anyone Night 2. Mechanically speaking, this means scum almost definitely has a Ninja. If Jack truly has been Jailing Toony every Night, which is believable due to my Night 1 results, then Toony cannot have ever made anyone Lovers. You NJW are most likely a Watcher, and while you're not conftown by any means I think it would be wild if you were a Multitasking Ninja Watcher.

That means the Ninja has to be either Met or Vector. The final proof of which is that even though you were asked to Watch Tric, scum still confidently targeted him with the Lovers mechanic. There's just too much pointing to this being the truth, and I'd appreciate it if you took a minute stop tunneling me to realize that this is a legitimate logical conclusion.

If you want further proof I'm not scum, I had opportunities for two days in a row to break ties and lynch you at the last minute, but I never did even though I could reasonably get away with it since you've been under suspicion and I'd made a scum case on you by Day 2.

[ToonyMan]

You're saying scum targeted NJW and Tric last night? Why would they target Tric again? If they can pair any two players there's no reason not to maximize town deaths by targeting two new town players, not just one.

Roden, you said on D1 your tracking ability has a gate, what is this restriction?

[Roden]

Why are you asking me why scum targeted them? I don't know the reasoning, and your question presumably accounts for if Tric or NJW are scum so that potentially adds another layer that I just don't have enough info to answer. My only guess is that Lovers deaths can possibly chain, which you poison day kill seems to be able to counteract.

My restriction is that I'm Roaming, I can't target the same player twice.

[EuchreJack]

My restriction is that I'm Roaming, I can't target the same player twice.

Well, it explains why Roden targeted Tric when I suggested Roden target me: Roden targeted me N1, and couldn't target me N2.

I'd also point out that Tric keeps suspecting me and Roden, in support of NJW's suspicions of me and Roden.

But then again, Roden could just be buddying me.

[EuchreJack]

Some Tric posts about Met, and Met's post about their ability:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Well that looks bad for me.

So fun fact. I kinda lied about my power, but thought Redirect could be used that way. Fal kindly informed me that it very much wasn't possible, so I targeted Toony and redirected him to Jack.

Also, I got hit by the Lover effect last night. Which means that Jack's ability isn't what he claims, since it's Toonyman I'm lover's with. Which if he was jailed, shouldn't have happened. I guess I'd be hit by it, but not Toony.

As for the end of day, I thought I had a few more hours. This is the first time in forever a day has ended while the sun was still up for me. So I was still pressuring.

Nin.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Right. At this point not sure what your gameplan is jack. I get getting out of this.. But I don't really understand how.

As for Vector. He's NKable. And immune to lovers. Does that mean Lovers isn't a mafia thing? Or does it mean we have an SK in play? Or does mafia have both lovers and a night kill.(Which would likely be 1-shot)

If the middle, that means Met is lying through his teeth. Or Vector is the one lying and is mafia with NJW. Mets too suspicious.

Spoiler: Met discussing his role - Note that "Not confirmable by tracker" bit (click to show/hide)

This is supposed to be mostly vanilla but it seems like a lot of the high impact roles this setup are bastard. Also, the fact everyone has a power role makes this so scumsided because people are too busy trying to figure out what happened instead of just catching scum. Whoever voted to save me is absolutely town because scum would just pretend to be afk and take a free yeet.

I'm still not confirmable tonight by tracker.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Looks at Meta and Jack. To note, my ability does require I pick two targets. The first which I'm redirecting, and the second which is the new target. And Meta, we already went through this, read the thread. Not just pop in, claim a death-related role, then pop out. I remember the game with the necromancer claiming Medium.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As it stands, Met isn't claiming Vig. Just something death related. Which doesn't help. Vector's the only one left. As it stands, it's still looking likely it's Jack/Roden. Or NJW if Jack is town.

Given Lover isn't going to kill Toony immediately, and is probably related to the mafia.. I really hope they don't have a kill so they can just instant-win over the night. Outside of info Vector could give, poisoning me and lynching jack is probably best. Unless we can figure out an alternative where it...

NJW is the reason we think there are two people who targeted Toony, me and Jack. So any team setup where the three of us are town requires that he be mafia, which overturns the validity of his watch result.

Meta, did you do anything last night. Same question with Vector. Who did you target if so? That's really the only other option we have.

Hm, dunno.  Was Tric distancing or trying to get a townie lynched? I dunno, so I'm leaving this here.  Feel free to add to it!

[ToonyMan]

Here's what I've written for this game so far while at work. It's pretty much in chronological order so you can see what I put down.

Spoiler: Round 2 notes (click to show/hide)

Toony - One-Shot Day Poisoner, are you serious?
Roden - claims Tracker with restriction, seems willing to use it
Jack - claims some active pro-town ability, seems willing to be tracked
Vector - no claim
Metruption - no claim
NJW - no claim
Tric - claims psychologist with a one-shot redirect onto themselves


Even if I hit mafia they won't die until the end of the next day which means town can still be endgamed if it's lylo, plus they'll know they were poisoned and there's probably someone else in the game with an antidote to balance it.

 

Day 1 results:

 

Player motivations:

I trust Roden who believes in Jack.
I trust Jack based on their behavior.

If I trust Vector then I shouldn't believe in Tric.
I don't feel as good about Tric.


 

Reads:

 

Night 1 prediction:

Me, Jack, or Roden dies

 

Night 1 results:

Me and Tric became lovers, nobody died.
 

N1 Claims:

Toony - One-Shot Day Poisoner, did nothing
Roden - Tracker with restrictions, tracked Jack who targeted Toony
Jack - Jailkeeper, jailed Toony
Vector - Ascetic, did nothing
Metruption - something to do with the dead, this implies they did nothing N1
NJW - Watcher with restrictions, watched Toony and saw that Tric and Jack targeted him
Tric - One-Shot(?) Redirector, redirected Toony onto Jack

 
I trust Jack over Roden here, if one is mafia then it's always Roden.

Tric is the most suspicious mechanically, but his behavior is insane. A Tric/NJW mafia is just insane if you consider the end of Day 1.


If Tric really is the lovers culprit then he's with Vector, Met, or Roden. It's not with Jack or NJW.



Levels of suspicion:
 

Low Level
Jack - not suspicious at all unless with exactly Roden, but you would always vote Roden first here
Tric - not suspicious at all for now, this will become more and more suspicious over time if they are not killed (especially if I'm dead already)
 

Mid Level
Met - on the fence
Roden - on the fence
NJW - the way they slammed down results on D2 was really towny unless their role is some absurd watcher/lovers combo


High Level
Vector - could be mafia with most players, probably not Roden though


There may be exactly one mafia inside Tric/Vector

Jack/Met is unlikely
Jack/Vector is unlikely
Jack/NJW is unlikely
Jack/Tric is unlikely
Jack/Roden is the most probable by far but it's too obvious

 

N2 prediction:

Mafia should always kill Jack here, it's too risky to go for me or Tric tonight even if they could get the twofer.

NJW might watch Jack if he's thinking the same thing I am. I'm not sure he should listen to Roden's suggestion.

 

Night 2 results (so far):

NJW became lovers with Tric, nobody died again.



N2 claims:

Toony - One-Shot Day Poisoner, did nothing again
Roden - Roaming Tracker, tracked Tric who did nothing
Jack - Jailkeeper, jailed Toony again
Vector - Ascetic, I assume they did nothing again
Metruption - something to do with the dead, this implies they did nothing N2 as well
NJW - Watcher with unknown restrictions, did nothing because of restriction
Tric - One-Shot(?) Redirector, did nothing?

[TricMagic]

I'm also quite sure mafia didn't or were not able to kill again last night, how can I determine this?

Jack isn't dead. Jack should have always been the kill last night. I wrote in bold over and over that Jack would be the kill 100% of the time last night. Instead NJW was hit by Lovers, so yeah. That means NJW is town...unless someone else wants to claim they were hit by Lovers too last night? Any takers? Roden?

One mafia inside of NJW/Jack/Tric.

Jack is always town. NJW is most likely town.

Tric is mafia.

Vector/Met/Roden are the remainder, assuming one more mafia who is the most likely here?

Vector? Hardly, they've been on Tric's ass this whole game.

Met? Maybe, but also maybe not.

Roden?  ...I will look into this.

To note, I was the one hit by Lovers last night with NJW.