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[Metruption]

Tric you are getting really hung up on something that won't matter tomorrow. Both the person who claimed bulletproof and the person who claimed commuter are town. Someone is going to target me with a role that can confirm I am a commuter and then we will have an easy time in yeetlo tomorrow. You should seek to elim outside of {Metruption,Roden} right now.

... You do know if someone dies to your partner... Actually, that's quite good for an ally. The Mafia says they target you last night and confirm you as the commuter. But they killed someone else. As opposed to people targeting me and me confirming their actions, something you can't actually do. And a town doing that gains what exactly? Just suspicion. A commuter roll is perfect for an ally, they can avoid being killed or found out, so our only recourse is to find scum instead.

town post, welcome to the bloc

[Metruption]

Jack, a question. We have a claimed bulletproof, and a claimed commuter. 1 is outright immune to being targeted, and thus investigated. The other can't be killed normally.

In addition, those who target me, I'll know. So, taking your role into account, is this incredibly townsided, or balanced? Or is one of the two mafia?

I think I'll refrain from discussing my role at this time.  Bulletproof and Commuter could be powerful in LYLO.  They're not much now.  We really have no idea what else is out there.

Hm, if we're talking fakeclaims, we really should discuss fakeclaim of bulletproof versus fakeclaim of commuter by mafia.  Or maybe it already came up, my apologies.

I don't like the agenda of this part of the post. It reads heavily like scum (informed minority who knows the alignment of every player) who is trying to make town go down a rabbit hole that leads to the townies doing the hard work of eliminating a townie.

[Roden]

@NJW: I don't think everyone piling their actions on Tric is the best idea, since if scum have a gun then he could just die and we gain no information, and scum could also just choose not to target him. Though if we have a Doc that would hard stop scum, so maybe that is worth it.

I also don't understand the point of purposely targeting an intangible player with an investigative role? Unless you have something like a plain Visitor, I feel like you'd be better off targeting literally anyone else.

That's fair I guess, but it sounds like you already assume I'm scum.

Dude, I don't know if you and Metruption have the world's shittiest mindmeld or what, but "OMG scumhunting sus" is not the revelation you think it is.

I...didn't say that?

Essentially, what is your flavor for why/how you're a Commuter? This is a themed game, sort of, so we should all have a flavor wrt our role.

Let me establish right now that I am NOT going to engage in or cooperate with any attempts to gain or use flavour-based information, and would be completely sympathetic to any player adopting the same policy. This is not a bastard game, and I'm here to play mafia, not speculate about the mod's writing style. I could go on.

This is by all means a themed game, and flavor claiming isn't out of the usual for Mafia.

[NJW2000]

Spoiler: replies to Roden (click to show/hide)

@NJW: I don't think everyone piling their actions on Tric is the best idea, since if scum have a gun then he could just die and we gain no information, and scum could also just choose not to target him. Though if we have a Doc that would hard stop scum, so maybe that is worth it.

I also don't understand the point of purposely targeting an intangible player with an investigative role? Unless you have something like a plain Visitor, I feel like you'd be better off targeting literally anyone else.

I take your point about everyone actioning Tric. It's a possible way to give town info, but certainly not the only possibility I'm considering.

I never claimed to have an investigative role. I claimed to have an active role, and that I could test Met's claim with it by seeing if it hit them. Obviously, there are ways that idea could be interfered with, and if people thought Met and I could be a plausible scumteam they wouldn't consider my word useful, but nonetheless, it's an option. I'm pretty sure at least one of you and Met are fakeclaiming, and I suspect at least one is mafia, so it might be nice to test your claims.

I'm not very likely to commit to a night-action D1 - what I do might even depend on the lynch outcome, and I may not want to give mafia information. So while I will explore possibilities like this in-thread, don't worry, I'm not 100% committed to doing them.

Let me establish right now that I am NOT going to engage in or cooperate with any attempts to gain or use flavour-based information, and would be completely sympathetic to any player adopting the same policy. This is not a bastard game, and I'm here to play mafia, not speculate about the mod's writing style. I could go on.

This is by all means a themed game, and flavor claiming isn't out of the usual for Mafia.

You're not wrong there. Nonetheless.

@EuchreJack:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hm, if we're talking fakeclaims, we really should discuss fakeclaim of bulletproof versus fakeclaim of commuter by mafia.  Or maybe it already came up, my apologies.

Met has a point in that if you're interested in people discussing fakeclaims, you should probably shoulder the burden of talking about it yourself. Which do you think mafia would be more likely to fakeclaim?

Spoiler: updated reads list (click to show/hide)

TricMagic: Town. His role is fairly believable, and unless scum actually had his ability as a passive, they'd be making an astonishingly bold play to claim it that early. This is because it would commit them to having to guess who targeted them, and potentially counterclaiming multiple players if they guessed wrong. Claiming it this early... doesn't seem like a sensible scum play in any scenario. The rest of his play has been reasonable and aggressive, both of which I like. The rest of his play has been... well, expressed in such a confusing manner as to be indistinguishable from flailing at points. Obsession with everyone actioning him is perhaps defensible given power, but a little worrying.

EuchreJack: lean Town, perhaps only because he's isn't constantly spamming the thread with incomprehensible mafia-ese. Recent posts have been sensible if content-low and not particularly inspired. I don't find his calmness as worrying as some people seem to, but perhaps I just haven't played with him.

Toonyman: weak lean Town. very if not the most active player, quite constructive. Has mostly been pushing a not implausible case on Jack, quite quietly, seems to be working up to a lynch in the background. Not deeply indicative of alignment - someone literally forgot I exist, so I'd be a bit of a hypocrite if I suspected Toony for being unobtrusive

Vector: Weak lean scum. Hasn't done a huge amount still, would like to see more than them just pushing Metruption. Seems to be aggressively escalating in order to scumhunt; in Bay12 this is considered good D1 play in general but has certainly added to the chaos today.

Metruption: bizarre, lean Scum. Has certainly changed since my last read, and made quite a few accusations. The case against Vector was hasty but contained stuff that could plausibly be seen as compromising. Has been bouncing off Tric a bit in interactions that seem to produce more posts than progress, but I'm quite sympathetic to a lot of what they're saying - some of it is just having to respond to Tric's massive logical leaps. Their being "On the defensive" is not really helpful, and neither is their still unjustified declarations that Roden is town.

Roden: lean Scum but it might just be that they're playing town in a way I strongly disagree with. I don't agree with the justifications for their suggestion to massclaim, but I can see how they might be made from a town mindset. Hasn't pushed against anyone except Metruption, who he basically counterclaimed so was forced to pressure. Did so weakly, by inquiring into flavourtext of all things.

WHO I'M VOTING

So I have three scumreads up there. The one on Vector is too weak to lynch on, so I'm committed to lynching either Roden or Metruption still.

This is fine by me - I'm totally sure that there is at the very least one fakeclaim or one mafia player between Roden and Metruption. On the slim chance that they're both town, this game can be a salutary lesson about the advisability of damaging town's D1 by claiming roles that make you immune to the mafiakill, whether you have them or not. Otherwise, lynching one is likely to either hit mafia or provide some interesting information.

My vote is currently on Roden. I'm willing to change it to Met if that lynch looks more likely to work, but unless new shit comes to light, it's not going anywhere else.


@FallacyofUrist: can we ask for votecounts? Is the bot being used this game?

(Can't remember if me voting Met could open the possibility of a hammer, will go back and count votes)

[EuchreJack]

Jack, a question. We have a claimed bulletproof, and a claimed commuter. 1 is outright immune to being targeted, and thus investigated. The other can't be killed normally.

In addition, those who target me, I'll know. So, taking your role into account, is this incredibly townsided, or balanced? Or is one of the two mafia?

I think I'll refrain from discussing my role at this time.  Bulletproof and Commuter could be powerful in LYLO.  They're not much now.  We really have no idea what else is out there.

Hm, if we're talking fakeclaims, we really should discuss fakeclaim of bulletproof versus fakeclaim of commuter by mafia.  Or maybe it already came up, my apologies.

I don't like the agenda of this part of the post. It reads heavily like scum (informed minority who knows the alignment of every player) who is trying to make town go down a rabbit hole that leads to the townies doing the hard work of eliminating a townie.

Hm, reading that again, I can see how it comes off scummy, so let me clarify:
If you suspect two players, one that is claiming bulletproof and one that is claiming commuter, and you weigh them as equally scummy, then you should lynch the commuter.

Mafia claiming bulletproof doesn't get them much.  It just says "keep me around, mafia can't kill me".  Whereas Town may be able to inspect or otherwise determine the accuracy of the bulletproof claim.

Mafia claiming commuter could be dangerous.  Especially as I am unsure how this is supposed to work:

Tric you are getting really hung up on something that won't matter tomorrow. Both the person who claimed bulletproof and the person who claimed commuter are town. Someone is going to target me with a role that can confirm I am a commuter and then we will have an easy time in yeetlo tomorrow. You should seek to elim outside of {Metruption,Roden} right now.

Sigh, FOS Metruption instead of Toonyman.  I'm getting a survivor vibe out of Metruption.

Tric you are getting really hung up on something that won't matter tomorrow. Both the person who claimed bulletproof and the person who claimed commuter are town. Someone is going to target me with a role that can confirm I am a commuter and then we will have an easy time in yeetlo tomorrow. You should seek to elim outside of {Metruption,Roden} right now.

... You do know if someone dies to your partner... Actually, that's quite good for an ally. The Mafia says they target you last night and confirm you as the commuter. But they killed someone else. As opposed to people targeting me and me confirming their actions, something you can't actually do. And a town doing that gains what exactly? Just suspicion. A commuter roll is perfect for an ally, they can avoid being killed or found out, so our only recourse is to find scum instead.

town post, welcome to the bloc

Buddying Tric?

[EuchreJack]

For the record, I typed my response before NJW2000 posted. 

More seriously, I have to head out for a bit.

[Metruption]

Sigh, FOS Metruption instead of Toonyman.  I'm getting a survivor vibe out of Metruption.

A survivor? Can't exist in this setup.

[Metruption]

Other matters:

I have an active ability, so would be able to check Metruption's commuter claim if we do not lynch them today, and would not be particularly averse to doing this. Especially if they have no objection to an ability being used on them tonight.

@Metruption, how would you feel about that? I'm quite interested in the answer to this.

Seriously, we yeet Vector today and then do this tonight. I'm sure that the results would be clairvoyant.

[Metruption]

Roden is town because as town I only mindmeld with town.

[FallacyofUrist]

@FallacyofUrist: can we ask for votecounts? Is the bot being used this game?

I have no idea how to use that bot so I'll be doing vote counts manually. You may request them at any time, though I can't guarantee a timely response in all circumstances. I will say I'll provide one a while before Day 1 ends, to give everyone an accurate picture of what's going on.


The traditional whiteboard of vote counting shone with little streaks of red ink, tally marks repeatedly added and removed, threat repositioned.

Toonyman (0):
Roden (1): NJW2000
TricMagic (0):
EuchreJack (1): ToonyMan
NJW2000 (0):
Vector (2): EuchreJack, Metruption
Metruption (2): Vector, TricMagic

No Execution (0):
Not Voting (1): Roden
4 to hammer.

Vote Vector for Elimination

The norm on this board is to use red or bold red for a vote, as bold is more commonly used outside of that context. That said I counted your vote this time.

As usual, if anyone spots a vote count error, please let me know.

Day 1 ends at 1 AM Wednesday, Central time - or in approximately 7.5 hours.

[Roden]

Tric feels really town. From what I understand, Tric has a really distinct town voice, and going by games I've seen from him before I'm inclined to believe he should be lock town the rest of the game.

I also think NJW is just town here. He's been fairly aggressive and his attitude of wanting to punish "bad play" reminds me of how I was in the D6 Matrix game.

Everyone else is up in the air tbh. I want to believe Met, but a Commuter + Bulletproof combo seems kind of wild. Like how is scum supposed to win a 1v4 if their scum buddy/traitor gets out first? Also kinda feels like he's trying to buddy me.

Jack is playing really differently this game. But I'd hate to meta sus someone for playing more calmly than what I've seen before.

Toony generally seems to give town vibes but it doesn't feel the same like in Matrix. I've read that his scum game is very covert and makes people paranoid, and since I don't have a solid town read on him this time I'm hesitant to trust him.

Vector reads similar to NJW but without the same kind of conviction. I'm kinda surprised they've pinged so many people though, is there something I missed that got him so many scum reads?

[ToonyMan]

Okay so.

NJW is town as fuck or playing godly mafia. I don't think I've ever seen them play as mafia, but they are not a player I want to vote today.

I still believe Tric and Roden are town, their day start behavior doesn't make sense to me if they're mafia. I think NJW is wrong about Roden, but I also think Roden is wrong about Met.

Met does not seem like mafia to me, they are flailing too hard. They might be doing certain things on purpose as a mafia-ally, like trying to associate with Roden to "dirty" him, but I just think it's unlikely. Met is probably town.

Vector is kind of suspect but I don't have any solid reasoning.

Jack is the most suspicious to me currently. Jack is content with Vector's demise, is pushing Met, and their calm in-control vibe is freaks me out. They must be aware of this and they're townreading me based on this suspicion I have, how do I read this?

Currently, I think we'll hit one mafia inside Vector/Jack and I would want Jack first.

Reads List order:
Tric
NJW
Met
Roden
Vector
Jack

Vector (2): EuchreJack, Metruption
Metruption (2): Vector, TricMagic

Right now Vector and Met are crossvoting and I think they're both serious about it, which leads me to conclude:

1. Town crossvoting
Possible

2. Town and mafia crossvoting
Possible

3. Town and mafia-ally crossvoting
Possible

4. Mafia and mafia-ally crossvoting
Unlikely (but hilarious)

5. Mafia crossvoting
Unlikely

I'm not really happy with either of these lynches. I would want to take Vector over Met, but Jack is on Vector which I don't like.

I want to believe Met, but a Commuter + Bulletproof combo seems kind of wild. Like how is scum supposed to win a 1v4 if their scum buddy/traitor gets out first? Also kinda feels like he's trying to buddy me.

Roden is town because as town I only mindmeld with town.

No kidding.

[Metruption]

They are both individually scummy but they don't have to be partners.
We will have a LOT more information come day 2.

[TricMagic]

By the same vein, voting Jack is something I'd be fine with. Or, you know, just skipping the vote today. Been in favor of that, though wanted the info pressure and talk would bring.

[ToonyMan]

These claims are frustrating because mafia would absolutely love to lynch the Commuter or Bulletproof during the day, these are power roles we want alive for lylo.

If we lynch one and they flip town then what? Lynch the other the next day? It's not worth it at this point in time and it's very unlikely both are mafia, we can all agree on this yes?

I don't think we should consider Met or Roden until it's an assumed lylo. By assumed lylo that means at most two mafia which puts lylo on D2 at the earliest if we lynch someone today.