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[TricMagic]

@Met:

Armor wouldn't work against poison.

How confident are you that mafia have poison in this game?

I have no reason to believe it, but the supposed presence of a bulletproof implies scum have a way to kill a bulletproof.

The presence of Commuter implies scum have a way to kill commuter. Not a day kill though, since that wouldn't work on bulletproof. But a daykill would kill you. But it wouldn't kill the bulletproof.

Put simply, there being two of you implies that one of you is mafia. But only 1 can be investigated.

@Met: Do you know how or why you became a Commuter?

It was just in my role PM, not sure what you mean.

Essentially, what is your flavor for why/how you're a Commuter? This is a themed game, sort of, so we should all have a flavor wrt our role.

Why dos the flavor matter?

[ToonyMan]

@Met:

Armor wouldn't work against poison.

How confident are you that mafia have poison in this game?

I have no reason to believe it, but the supposed presence of a bulletproof implies scum have a way to kill a bulletproof.

You pushed for poison as a likely mafiakill method before Roden claimed Bulletproof.

[ToonyMan]

Hm, but we don't know the setup.  I think the mass claim strategy only works when we have at least some hint to the setup.

Not voting Roden because Town Roden seems to like the mass claim.  Hell, I'm not even suspicious, I just think its bad strategy.

This seems specious. Overexplaining. What does Town Roden seems to like the mass claim mean

Jack is referring to the "Newbie" game where town!Roden wanted the one-shot BP to claim if they existed since there's a meta way to play in that open setup. It's a bit different here but I understand their view.

[NJW2000]

Essentially, what is your flavor for why/how you're a Commuter? This is a themed game, sort of, so we should all have a flavor wrt our role.

Let me establish right now that I am NOT going to engage in or cooperate with any attempts to gain or use flavour-based information, and would be completely sympathetic to any player adopting the same policy. This is not a bastard game, and I'm here to play mafia, not speculate about the mod's writing style. I could go on.


We seem to be nearing the 75% of the day mark, so I'm going to post a reads list.

Spoiler: reads list (click to show/hide)

TricMagic: Town. His role is fairly believable, and unless scum actually had his ability as a passive, they'd be making an astonishingly bold play to claim it that early. This is because it would commit them to having to guess who targeted them, and potentially counterclaiming multiple players if they guessed wrong. Claiming it this early... doesn't seem like a sensible scum play in any scenario. The rest of his play has been reasonable and aggressive, both of which I like.

Toonyman: weak lean Town. very active, quite constructive, has raised some ok points. Very experienced player familiar with bay12 meta, nothing yet deeply indicative of alignment.

Vector: Null. Don't have a huge amount to go on here. Has applied some pressure, play looks town-sided, nothing somebody with her experience wouldn't easily do as scum. Noting my post a little odd, could be buddying but may just be positive reinforcement teaching.

EuchreJack: Null. Only two posts, but reasonable amount of content in each. Questions seem a bit random, voting Vector for not posting fewer than 24 hours in was unimpressive, and I literally don't understand the FoS on Toony, but... limited experience player choosing to attack two of the strongest players rather than engage in an easier discussion doesn't look too bad. Still so little content I wouldn't be wholly against a policy lynch if they don't contribute something more.

Roden: lean Scum but it might just be that they're playing town in a way I strongly disagree with. Seems to swing between believing Met's claim in their first post and being highly suspiscious of them in the second.

Metruption: Scum. Find their commuter claim quite hard to believe. Hasn't asked any questions or put anybody under any pressure, most posts were speculation about mechanics, especially poison. There may be an explanation for this weird claim and lack of pushing in the daygame, and lack of interest in answering my question here but eh, currently I'm pretty dubious. Would need to see some kind of a sign to consider it.

Other matters:

I have an active ability, so would be able to check Metruption's commuter claim if we do not lynch them today, and would not be particularly averse to doing this. Especially if they have no objection to an ability being used on them tonight.

@Metruption, how would you feel about that? I'm quite interested in the answer to this.

[Metruption]

I have an active ability, so would be able to check Metruption's commuter claim if we do not lynch them today, and would not be particularly averse to doing this. Especially if they have no objection to an ability being used on them tonight.

@Metruption, how would you feel about that? I'm quite interested in the answer to this.

Go for it, I look forward to being confirmed. In the meantime I think even though my claim conflicts with roden that it's not prudent to yeet that slot yet (even though Roden absolutely is drowning in poisoned wine). I get the vibe that tomorrow will be 5p yeetlo. My current best guess at scum would be TricMagic, that slot has a bunch of weird interactions.

[Metruption]

Hm, but we don't know the setup.  I think the mass claim strategy only works when we have at least some hint to the setup.

Not voting Roden because Town Roden seems to like the mass claim.  Hell, I'm not even suspicious, I just think its bad strategy.

This seems specious. Overexplaining. What does Town Roden seems to like the mass claim mean

This post seems to be genuinely bad faith. Vector posts in a way that makes me think they should absolutely be able to parse many likely meanings of this statement.

Am exhausted, sorry folks. I forgot that this was starting this evening.

Don't like Roden's call for a massclaim, and think that doing this with the bulletproof claim is scum-sided but perhaps NaI for Roden. Also feel ambiguous about Metruption's jumping on it + claim. Leaning Metruption scum.

@Toony: As usual I struggle to read Tric. Null.

@EuchreJack: If the vote on me is so obvious, why softpedal it with "regret?" FoS.

And here, they scumlean me for no reason.

I'm seeing Vector cast a rather wide net of shade with few townreads and this creates a situation where scum!Vector can just hop on a lot of wagons easily. There's another scumtell I see Vector going for that I've struggled with in the past. I'll call it out if I see more of it.

Vote Vector for Elimination

[TricMagic]

Active ability. Don't you need to target someone NJW? But the Commuter can't be targeted.

As of right now I believe the scum team to be Meta and NJW. Also, it's not my fault you are lying. Or are telling the truth and don't have a way to target me.

NJW, rather than target Meta, target me. That way you are confirmed to have done so. Only option is for mafia to target me, or someone else. In the latter case we will have a list of people who didn't do the kill.

Metruption. One of the two are scum, and I'm more willing to pick the person who an investigator can't learn about. Or be poisoned. Or set up for a bomb. No one can target you, and that with a BP claim makes it unlikely both are town in a small setup.


Nin. Meta, why vote vector, weren't you pushing for me? What changed? Or are you Cornered?

[TricMagic]

Hm, but we don't know the setup.  I think the mass claim strategy only works when we have at least some hint to the setup.

Not voting Roden because Town Roden seems to like the mass claim.  Hell, I'm not even suspicious, I just think its bad strategy.

This seems specious. Overexplaining. What does Town Roden seems to like the mass claim mean

This post seems to be genuinely bad faith. Vector posts in a way that makes me think they should absolutely be able to parse many likely meanings of this statement.

Am exhausted, sorry folks. I forgot that this was starting this evening.

Don't like Roden's call for a massclaim, and think that doing this with the bulletproof claim is scum-sided but perhaps NaI for Roden. Also feel ambiguous about Metruption's jumping on it + claim. Leaning Metruption scum.

@Toony: As usual I struggle to read Tric. Null.

@EuchreJack: If the vote on me is so obvious, why softpedal it with "regret?" FoS.

And here, they scumlean me for no reason.

I'm seeing Vector cast a rather wide net of shade with few townreads and this creates a situation where scum!Vector can just hop on a lot of wagons easily. There's another scumtell I see Vector going for that I've struggled with in the past. I'll call it out if I see more of it.

Vote Vector for Elimination

What does Town Roden seems to like the mass claim mean in this context. Also, Vector notes NaI for Roden. Also, use Red, not bold. You are casting a wide net in hopes of netting a chance at survival.

[ToonyMan]

Unvote Vector so they aren't at L-1 if Met's vote counts.

[ToonyMan]

I can post reads when I get home.

In the meantime:

1. I agree with NJW's assessment of Tric. He put into words what I was unable to.
2. There might be one mafia between Roden/Met, however I strongly don't believe both are scum.
3. Vector feels natural.
4. Jack feels unnatural.

[Metruption]

What does Town Roden seems to like the mass claim mean in this context. Also, Vector notes NaI for Roden. Also, use Red, not bold. You are casting a wide net in hopes of netting a chance at survival.

Survivalism is NAI and this sort of language thievery is scum indicative.

My guess is that it means the player Roden when they roll town seem to like mass claims. It's a post about a player's meta, not about their alignment. I interpret it as someone has played with town!Roden a bunch of times before and as town Roden liked doing massclaims.

[Metruption]

Active ability. Don't you need to target someone NJW? But the Commuter can't be targeted.

If someone with an active ability targets a commuter then they will get a different result than if they target someone who is not a commuter. They will also get the same result as if scum roleblocked them but I don't think scum has a roleblocker in this game. There's a reason I think that and on day 2 when we have a LOT of information from night actions going into that yeetlo I expect everything to make a lot more sense. Notably, both Roden and I are town.

[ToonyMan]

Active ability. Don't you need to target someone NJW? But the Commuter can't be targeted.

If someone with an active ability targets a commuter then they will get a different result than if they target someone who is not a commuter. They will also get the same result as if scum roleblocked them but I don't think scum has a roleblocker in this game. There's a reason I think that and on day 2 when we have a LOT of information from night actions going into that yeetlo I expect everything to make a lot more sense. Notably, both Roden and I are town.

I understand assuming that you and Roden can survive to tomorrow given your claimed abilities.

But, why do you think Roden is town here? Is it merely from their association with you?

Also, with so many claimed passive roles I don't see much night action info to be had tomorrow.

[Metruption]

I understand assuming that you and Roden can survive to tomorrow given your claimed abilities.

Unless one of us gets yeeted. Conflicting claims can be a good reason to yeet a slot but when neither of us actually act particularly scummy then it's better to yeet a slot that has been acting suspicious. I find TricMagic and Vector to be the most suspicious.

[NJW2000]

Spoiler: questions/replies for Tric, largely trying to clarify what their posts mean (click to show/hide)

Active ability. Don't you need to target someone NJW? But the Commuter can't be targeted.

As of right now I believe the scum team to be Meta and NJW. Also, it's not my fault you are lying. Or are telling the truth and don't have a way to target me.

NJW, rather than target Meta, target me. That way you are confirmed to have done so. Only option is for mafia to target me, or someone else. In the latter case we will have a list of people who didn't do the kill.

As Metruption answered for me, anyone with an active ability can target a commuter: if their action fails, this goes someway to confirm the commuter claim. If it's illegal for me to target a commuter, as you seem to suggest is the case(?), the mod will at least tell me so. I'm not completely committed to doing this, but it's an idea.

I'm not sure what the stuff about lying or "telling the truth and not being able to target me" actually means. Is that addressed to me, Metruption, or both of us? It isn't entirely clear.

I'm still interested in the "everyone targets Tricmagic" idea but two other people claiming passive abilities makes it less powerful: unless both Roden and Met are scum or lying, there will be townies who can't target you. If we lynch one of them, the idea becomes quite attractive.

@Metruption
I would also like to know why you think Roden is town and what you mean here when you say "weird interactions".

(As well as what you mean by referring to a "slot" rather than a player - nobody's replaced out yet, so the distinction between players and their roles isn't meaningful, is it?)


Broadly speaking, the last handful of posts have had quite a bit of confusingly phrased text and reads/claims made without justification. Remember that communicating your ideas during the day is key to the lynch, town's most important tool.

Will try and work out who I want to lynch and build the case, but not for a bit.