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[webadict]

For your list:

1. It's not entirely impossible for Roden to be a scum Cop. I do think that's not very likely, but it's partially why it's hard to think Roden is scum.
2. You could very well be a scum Ninja, so this isn't too risky at all. Combined with the fact that you haven't fully claimed your role, this isn't exactly a point I consider.
3. This point is incorrect: One Night 1, one of you could've targeted Maximum Spin and the other targeted EuchreJack. If you're a Ninja, then you would have been Max's potential killer, OR no kill was performed, for whatever reason.
4. This would have to be true, assuming no Multitasking. In this case, Roden could be a Role Cop. However, this fails because Roden still would've targeted Maximum Spin or ToonyMan, so Roden's role would be entirely unknown in this case.
5. This is true. The real kicker was asking Maximum Spin if Max also targeted Toaster, to see if investigative roles were essentially roleblocked. This makes either assumption pretty decent, but there does appear to be genuine confusion about it.
6. In this situation, it was likely assumed I would be voted out next, so allowing for Max to be cleared was a safer bet than red checking me. This also opens up some obfuscation in case there is another Day Tomorrow.

For Max's list:
You forgot that ToonyMan is also probably Neighborized, but yes, this is essentially true. In this case, EuchreJack is a Multitasker Neighborizer Roleblocker, which is the easier explanation.

To me, it seems as though ToonyMan would be a person to convince here, as well, but a lot of the explanations have been going to me. This is concerning for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that ToonyMan is very much wrapped up in his chat. It does seem like No Launch would be a beneficial vote for either party, unless there is a Delayer.

I think, if your perspective is true, then you two have no reason to not vote Maximum Spin or No Launch. Of course, I'm really only saying this because I want to be cleared, but it seems odd that you wouldn't consider me being the Roleblocker, as this perfectly covers all the bases: Max kills N1, I RB Roden, Max kills N2, I RB you. In this case, Max and I are the scumteam, AND it's even easier than EuchreJack + Maximim Spin. But, really, this is a forcing play on you. You need to convince one of ToonyMan or EuchreJack to also agree with you (or both of them if you accept I'm scum) that Maximum Spin is scum, or you need to No Launch. Those are the options as I see them.

[Magma Mater]

For your list:

1. It's not entirely impossible for Roden to be a scum Cop. I do think that's not very likely, but it's partially why it's hard to think Roden is scum.
2. You could very well be a scum Ninja, so this isn't too risky at all. Combined with the fact that you haven't fully claimed your role, this isn't exactly a point I consider.
3. This point is incorrect: One Night 1, one of you could've targeted Maximum Spin and the other targeted EuchreJack. If you're a Ninja, then you would have been Max's potential killer, OR no kill was performed, for whatever reason.
4. This would have to be true, assuming no Multitasking. In this case, Roden could be a Role Cop. However, this fails because Roden still would've targeted Maximum Spin or ToonyMan, so Roden's role would be entirely unknown in this case.
5. This is true. The real kicker was asking Maximum Spin if Max also targeted Toaster, to see if investigative roles were essentially roleblocked. This makes either assumption pretty decent, but there does appear to be genuine confusion about it.
6. In this situation, it was likely assumed I would be voted out next, so allowing for Max to be cleared was a safer bet than red checking me. This also opens up some obfuscation in case there is another Day Tomorrow.

1. If Roden is a scum cop, he claims the null result on Toaster IMO. He also simply targets Max on n2 if his plan is to claim to have targeted Max. The only reason for him to be lying about his target is if he is a scum role other than cop.
2. You saw one person visit Jim - the person who killed him. Toaster is claiming that Roden did not kill Jim. Therefore, it's not possible for me to be a scum Ninja from your PoV.
3. I meant to say that either I or Roden targeted Jack, and either I or Roden sent a kill on Max.
4. Even if you assume that there are multitaskers, Max's tracker claim locks these actions as the only possibility if Roden and I are scum together.

To me, it seems as though ToonyMan would be a person to convince here, as well, but a lot of the explanations have been going to me. This is concerning for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that ToonyMan is very much wrapped up in his chat. It does seem like No Launch would be a beneficial vote for either party, unless there is a Delayer.

I think, if your perspective is true, then you two have no reason to not vote Maximum Spin or No Launch. Of course, I'm really only saying this because I want to be cleared, but it seems odd that you wouldn't consider me being the Roleblocker, as this perfectly covers all the bases: Max kills N1, I RB Roden, Max kills N2, I RB you. In this case, Max and I are the scumteam, AND it's even easier than EuchreJack + Maximim Spin. But, really, this is a forcing play on you. You need to convince one of ToonyMan or EuchreJack to also agree with you (or both of them if you accept I'm scum) that Maximum Spin is scum, or you need to No Launch. Those are the options as I see them.

I'm explaining to you because you said that you might vote for Roden, even though he's unlikely to be scum specifically from your PoV.
I do agree that a nolynch might be beneficial, although I seriously doubt there would be a kill at this point.

I have considered you as roleblocker. However, from a setup design perspective, I think that a town motion detector works nicely with my role. I also think that if you're not a motion detector, you've taken a significant risk with your claim (for example, what if Jack had claimed to neighborize Jim? What if Toony had given him the bulletproof vest?) etc. I also think your play has been more townie than Jack's. I'm also not totally thinking about it because as you said, it's an easy vote for me today.

[Magma Mater]

Some questions regarding the inventions, actually.

@EuchreJack, what did Toony give you n1? Why didn't you use it?

@Toony, why did you give Max a bulletproof vest?

[EuchreJack]

I wanted to add my second neighbor before using the device.
You'll find out what Toonyman gave me...when I use it.  Not before.
Why is Mr. No Claim asking me this?

[Magma Mater]

I wanted to add my second neighbor before using the device.
You'll find out what Toonyman gave me...when I use it.  Not before.
Why is Mr. No Claim asking me this?

@Toony, in your mind, was Jack justified in doing this? Is your invention less useful than a neighbor?

[Maximum Spin]

I wanted to add my second neighbor before using the device.
You'll find out what Toonyman gave me...when I use it.  Not before.
Why is Mr. No Claim asking me this?

@Toony, in your mind, was Jack justified in doing this? Is your invention less useful than a neighbor?

Lol, are you fishing to try to figure out whether ToonyMan is the MTN?

The true neighborhood is the friends we made along the way, Magma.

[Magma Mater]

I have no idea what MTN means, sorry.
If I've interpreted his posts correctly, Toony has already claimed he was neighborized.

[ToonyMan]

@Toony, why did you give Max a bulletproof vest?

Because I believed mafia tried to kill him on N1 for some reason and would want to do it again. I could have given the BP to Jim, but I overthought it. I did something similar in the Gnosia game here as the Guardian Angel.

I wanted to add my second neighbor before using the device.
You'll find out what Toonyman gave me...when I use it.  Not before.
Why is Mr. No Claim asking me this?

@Toony, in your mind, was Jack justified in doing this? Is your invention less useful than a neighbor?

I don't know, maybe.


Roden and Max have conflicting claims which means one of them is probably mafia. I've felt both Roden and Max were town this whole game so I can't confidently say I know who to vote here. I walked into today thinking the mafia were Magma and Webadict, however Max's claim throws extensive doubt on Roden. I think it's unlikely mafia win if we no-lynch and I think that is how we raise our chances of winning.

No Lynch

[Roden]

I don't want to no lynch. I'm not 100% confident Jack is Max's partner here, there is a chance it could be Toony still. Web is the only one I feel is clear at this point, which means Web likely just dies and we're stuck here again tomorrow. My other concern is that if Toony was neighborized, which still hasn't been confirmed, then two scum are in a hood with a townie as we reach a Final 5 ELO. Any townies who are unsure of who is lying should be terrified of that prospect, and the fact that none of the three in the potential hood are mentioning anything about that should be raising red flags for everyone here.

Maximum Spin

[Roden]

Also Magma you might want to claim, it's not like you're dying tonight if we no lynch.

[Magma Mater]

Also Magma you might want to claim, it's not like you're dying tonight if we no lynch.

exactly, so no point claiming before tomorrow 

[Roden]

There's a bit of a complication, though, for Roden, besides the current situation, which is N1:

Hmmm...ok. But something isn't adding up.

I targeted Toaster last night but was also Roleblocked. I thought he might've been lying and was actually just Ascetic, but you're also claiming that you were Roleblocked. My Unreliable passive can't cause my action to fail either, I was specifically told something else caused it to fail. This is why I asked if you targeted Toaster.

Toaster can still be Ascetic I guess, since I don't know how we both could've been blocked here otherwise. But I'm just not sure why he would lie about his role if he's town. Then again, I'm not sure why anyone would waste their Roleblock on me just to stop me from confirming that Toaster is Null to investigations.

Why did you target Jack, btw?

Roden claims the Roleblock on N1. Assuming that Roden is scum, this might be an explanation to the no-kill on N1, as Roden attempted to kill Maximum Spin, who was protected. It doesn't really make sense for Roden to claim being blocked, though. It is a complication measure that hasn't been explained.

Roden also claims targeting Maximum Spin N2, which is another complication measure.


Honestly, I think I'd probably vote Roden in this situation, with the assumption that the Roleblocker doesn't exist. What would you say to that, Roden? If Maximum Spin is scum, who's his partner? Work through it with me.

PPE: I'll think about it more tomorrow, but it's possible this is a trap set by Maximum Spin? I'm a bit sleepy, but this could be a neat trap to test if Magma and I are scum. I'm not really in a rush to vote yet, because there's still plenty of time, so let's just think about it until then.

The Roleblock N1 is proven to come from scum though? I made it clear I was targeting Toaster, and the first thing I claimed D2 was that I targeted Toaster, before anyone else made a single claim. If I was scum, I would've risked getting contradicted by town claims. If I was Roleblocked by town, I wouldn't show up on the motion count you gave and town would claim it by now. The only possible thing you could claim is that Magma fake claimed Ninja ( What?) and I used Multi-Tasking to target both Toaster and Max.


...But why would I do that? Why do I kill Max here? He was already almost eliminated D1, and if I really wanted to mis-elim him I would've just followed Toaster on his accusation and suggested Max was mafia and voted him out. There's literally zero reason to even pretend to doubt Toaster's claim there, I never would've voted against him. It just doesn't make sense to try to NK him N1. Why wouldn't I kill Jim, the IC? Why wouldn't I kill you, the Motion Detector who could catch me if I was Multitasking? Why wouldn't I kill Toony, who not only claimed Inventor but who I know is deadly to try to go up against if we aren't aligned, especially after there were four games in a row where we weren't aligned and it was a massive struggle to deal with him each time?

[Roden]

Also Magma you might want to claim, it's not like you're dying tonight if we no lynch.

exactly, so no point claiming before tomorrow 

Do you plan to no lynch today?

[Magma Mater]

Also Magma you might want to claim, it's not like you're dying tonight if we no lynch.

exactly, so no point claiming before tomorrow 

Do you plan to no lynch today?

I'd prefer to kill Max, honestly. I don't see myself reevaluating after a nolynch.

[FallacyofUrist]

webadict (0):
EuchreJack (0):
Maximum Spin (1): Roden
Roden (1): Maximum Spin
ToonyMan (0):
Magma Mater (0):

No Execution (1): ToonyMan
Not Voting (3): webadict, EuchreJack, Magma Mater
4 to hammer.

One said to wait. Two others accused each other. Three more turned away.

The Night approached.

Day 3 will end at 9 AM, tomorrow - Central time, or on a hammer. Presently, the vote is tied.