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[TricMagic]

ok, unvote, this was just a trick I was trying to play on Tric

....

Unvote. So Vector, right now we need to determine which is lying, and which is telling the truth. For Mafia to bypass Deflection, or for Mafia to have an option to cause actions to fail.

[ToonyMan]

NJW was the one thing preventing Web from dying on N2. Web still died.

Me being mafia would imply I am solo scum with a standard kill I can't even use every day, as NJW is stating that me killing Web only worked because I was their deflection target, which is bullshit. How is that fair for mafia? Even if that's how deflection works, NJW can say whatever he wants as he shoots Web while also planting suspicion on me.

[NJW2000]

NJW was the one thing preventing Web from dying on N2. Web still died.

Me being mafia would imply I am solo scum with a standard kill I can't even use every day, as NJW is stating that me killing Web only worked because I was their deflection target, which is bullshit. How is that fair for mafia? Even if that's how deflection works, NJW can say whatever he wants as he shoots Web while also planting suspicion on me.

My ability cannot deflect someone if they'd self-target, yes. I can't beat the mafia in a 1v1, I just die at that point. You being mafia would imply you're solo scum with a standard kill you haven't successfully used every day. Mafia don't have to kill.

[TricMagic]

Thinking on it, I trust Toony more than you. Toony has been proactive this game, while you've mostly been reactive.

[NJW2000]

Right. I guess all I can do is ask you to look at the thread again, and see if that changes. I mean, you're going to have to rely on Vector being willing to allow my lynch over a tie, but that may well be the case.

[ToonyMan]

That's pretty much what it comes down to, yes.

[TricMagic]

Vector, I am going to be annoyed if you're mafia. Where are you?

[TricMagic]

NJW

I'm not going to be on given it's bedtime. But if Vector would tie, remove my vote. Not that I'm sure Fal would allow that.

[NJW2000]

This is a pity. I could have prevented it by checking everything twice with my role, being less cautious with the votes D3, or just seriously considering the possibility of a single-person mafia. Lesson learned, I guess.

At least there's a 50/50 chance of winning if I do get ML'd. I know you know this Tric, but I feel compelled to reiterate that shooting Toony is really what you have to do in that case.

Looking over Toony's posts, I can't find any totally convincing evidence he's scum, which is frankly to be expected, he plays a pretty controlled daygame. Vector's communication-with-Web case isn't 100% convincing - Web is clearly fishing, it's just not obvious Toony understood. His claim does depend on me being mafia and having either a multi-task and a block nobody knows about, or some kind of Ascetic passive, neither of which are super likely. I'd say his arguments today have been weak, especially his claim that there could be a mafia+mafia ally with an even-nights-only kill, but I'm biased because I know they're unsound. And yeah, if you can imagine Town!Toony being on every mislynch in the game including Jack, while I play this chaotic and attention-drawing a daygame as mafia, alright then.

I guess that's all, really. I need to go to bed in a bit, and the day should be over a bit later.

Vector, I am going to be annoyed if you're mafia. Where are you?

I'd also like it if Vector turned up, as you might have some faith in their analysis.

PPE: yeah, I'd really like it if Vector turned up, given that last post. No idea if FoU goes for that. Would be happy to extend if conditional voting isn't allowed.

[ToonyMan]

I'm not going to be able to stay awake for the deadline, so if there's any questions I'm here for now.

Outline why NJW is mafia:

1. Tric isn't mafia, this has been proven today via lack of quickhammer.
2. Tric has claimed Vector and Max are the same alignment. Max is town, thus Vector is town.
3. NJW tried to lynch Tric D1 because they claimed cop, then they switched their vote to Jack while also giving excuses that they didn't believe Jack was mafia.
4. NJW's N2 action claim should have prevented Web from dying, but this did not happen. In addition they didn't feel the need to check with the mod until the day after so that they could incriminate me.
5. The balance of the setup makes more sense if the solo mafia has some kind of special advantage, which we can infer NJW would have. At the same time, if we applied this reasoning to myself it is less convincing compared to NJW.
6. I would not kill Web as mafia, there is behavioral evidence. There isn't a clear indication with NJW.


PPE:

At least there's a 50/50 chance of winning if I do get ML'd. I know you know this Tric, but I feel compelled to reiterate that shooting Toony is really what you have to do in that case.

On the same token, if I'm mislynched you need to shoot NJW tonight Tric. I don't believe he can self-deflect.

[ToonyMan]

I haven't seen NJW as mafia so as for their general post behavior and emotions I can't judge them as well. For example, their attitude towards other players under different circumstances, I can't tell on that front. It reminds me a lot of Jim's mafia play.

[NJW2000]

I haven't seen NJW as mafia so as for their general post behavior and emotions I can't judge them as well. For example, their attitude towards other players under different circumstances, I can't tell on that front. It reminds me a lot of Jim's mafia play.

Regardless of my alignment, I suspect this is something of an affront to Jim.


Vector: if you're willing to tie the vote, you need to be pretty sure you'll want to lynch Toony over me in the morning, wherever the kill lands. Otherwise you should simply vote me in order to prove to Tric that I'm Town, and take the 50% chance Tric's gun will kill Toony after I flip. Because Tric will quite likely shoot me if you cause a tie, and then there's a 50% chance the game will end then and there as Toony kills one of us, same odds as in the case where you eliminate me today. Unless Toony goes for a no-kill, but I don't see that happening, it'd be very hard for him to get better odds than this.

Unless of course you think you can persuade Tric not to shoot me tonight, or better yet to shoot Toonyman. His last post didn't make it explicit whether he would be willing to change his elimination target based on your reads or just really didn't want a nolynch, so I don't know, that one's up to your judgement.

Well, goodnight all.

[ToonyMan]

It was a compliment. I don't find Jim when he's mafia. I end up with Jim left as the only possible mafia.

So yes, I think your play in this game was good. I also personally struggle with single mafia setups.

[ToonyMan]

Oh, and a bonus: Vector's claim says they have a 50% bulletproof too. They can give that to Tric as well tonight.

Which means in your hypothetical scenario where I'm scum and you get hammered it only allows me a 25% chance of victory, not 50%.

[ToonyMan]

Actually I'm dumb, nevermind. In that situation mafia!Me would just kill Vector which would still make it 50%.