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[rico6822]

I do not understand the current restriciton logic. The base they create may have one member- themselves. That doesn't count towards no longer being outsider. They can always change mind and no longer be outsiders however I believe they should keep their outsider status as long as their base will only have one member- themselves. They should also remain outsiders if they claim a site for themselves they haven't build like night creature's lair or bandit camp under condition that all it's members will either abandon it or will become deceased.

I believe facets determining openess to change should determine whenever a retired outsider will decide to join civs and it would still remain low even on highest levels. Low or lowest levels of those facets should guarantee remaining an outsider.

[Gtyx1]

Or perhaps allow outsiders to create groups that aren't connected to any civilization in the same way you can join a troupe or mercenary company or Bandit organization without joining a civilization.

[rico6822]

Or perhaps allow outsiders to create groups that aren't connected to any civilization in the same way you can join a troupe or mercenary company or Bandit organization without joining a civilization.

Aren't real outsiders supposted to be lonely?

[DwarfStar]

I suspect the restriction comes from the way that every claimed site is part of some civilization. There’s a member in the structure saying which civ the site belongs to, which can’t just be left empty because other code is expecting to find a valid value there.

Maybe a way out would be to allow the creation of “hermit civilizations” that function like ciivs in some ways, but are not allowed to be contacted or engage in war or trade. They would only allow one outsider to be a member of them.

[rico6822]

I suspect the restriction comes from the way that every claimed site is part of some civilization. There’s a member in the structure saying which civ the site belongs to, which can’t just be left empty because other code is expecting to find a valid value there.

Maybe a way out would be to allow the creation of “hermit civilizations” that function like ciivs in some ways, but are not allowed to be contacted or engage in war or trade. They would only allow one outsider to be a member of them.

Sounds like a temporarily solution to me.

I think it should be coded to be a civ, however civs should have a value indicating whenever it is an outsider "civilization". If the value is true it won't do thing normal civs do and instead if it was to be attacked by others as it's only member would be somehow super dangerous to some civs there will be siege only if outsider somehow managed to create a super structure.

Notice also how night trolls have no civs but their sites function normally.

[DwarfStar]

Yeah that’s a good point and was brought up in this other thread recently.

Forgotten beasts live in lairs as well I believe. I suppose the reason they are not civilizations is that there are so many of them and you wouldn’t want the civilization list to get clogged with them. So maybe what we want is not for outsiders to be able to claim sites but for them to be able to claim lairs.

[rico6822]

Yeah that’s a good point and was brought up in this other thread recently.

Forgotten beasts live in lairs as well I believe. I suppose the reason they are not civilizations is that there are so many of them and you wouldn’t want the civilization list to get clogged with them. So maybe what we want is not for outsiders to be able to claim sites but for them to be able to claim lairs.

Excellent.