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[Stirk]

Lets see here...
- It is not possible to attack with a card on the turn it is "created".
- The society horror effect does not require the card to remain in play.
- I don't have a good answer for if a card that is "Played" as a result of another card effect due to contradictory things that happened in the game. For the time being I am ruling that *Deliberately* playing a card with a Star cost as a result of a card effect costs stars while *Non-Deliberately* playing a card with a star cost as a result of a card effect does not.

Umm... Any other GM rulings needed?

There are a lot of unclear things about how cards work, and I am sort of regretting making some things the way that I did because of things like this. Honestly I wasn't expecting this game to last as long as it did. Might need to make some changes after the tournament resolves in order to smooth things out if this is to continue.

((Does Soul Mirror activate the copied card's summon effects?))

[Unraveller]

(( I can totally agree with all of those points. I feel like the last bit about deliberately playing versus non-deliberately, so to speak, makes total sense, it's a solid ruling. Things like Soul Mirror creating a copy of a star card are costless, but using Kelp Forest to play a star card requires the stars. I'm on board with that. ))

As a side note, I am really heavily enjoying this game, and am more than happy to continue playing it so long as you'll enjoy running it. As for vagueness in rulings, I like to think that we're all pretty relaxed when it comes to it, don't think anyone feels anything too negative when certain rules haven't been addressed and we have to fly by the seat of our pants, but categorizing some of these edge cases we've come up with would likely be healthy in the long run. In other words this is just a meaningless praise paragraph, you can take it or leave it. C:

(( Lastly, does Bennie get a star from the copying of Cosmic Isopod? This tangentially could fall into the deliberate/non-deliberate discussion, when it comes to all activated effects. Ie, why a Kelp Forest xopy would give you a star for making an Isopod, but a non discriminate copy like Soul Mirror might not activate summon effects. That one is a bit more of a gray area, totally up to your ruling of course. ))

[Supernerd]

In the case of the Isopod, the Kelp Forest explicitly "Plays" a card, so it would definitely make a Star if kelp-summoned. The main difference between a card that is played and a card that is created... Is probably how it interacts with effects that specifically say they do something when played (or created I guess).

I'm going to say that on-play effects would also trigger when a card is created in play. (But feel free to point out a precedent with indicates the opposite)

[Unraveller]

(( I'm not certain if there's any precedent otherwise, at least nothing I can think of off the top of my head.

So in closing, Bennie gets the star and is able to play the Horror. But they need to re-do their turn without being able to attack. Gotcha! ))

[Shadowclaw777]

(Edited all the errors that were precedent in the previous post

I’m still confused about that Kelp Forest, because to discard a card from your hand should mean that it doesn’t care about the Star effect, so in its current form it should mean that you have to pay the Star cost of a card to get a 1/1 copy, effectively your turning a card stat into a 1/1 to give it Quickplay. At least that seems how it works from my current understanding.)

[Unraveller]

(( That is the correct interpretation. You do have to pay the star cost to use the Kelp Forest's effect if it's summoning a star based card. The only contention was whether you gained a star from copying the in-play Isopod, which Supernerd just ruled that you do, if I understand correctly.

So Bennie still gains the star from copying the Isopod, he is absolutely able to play the Summoned Society Horror with the Kelp Forest's effect by paying that copied Isopod's star. Basically, the only chanhe is that Bennie can't attack with his copies this turn.))

[Unraveller]

"Lousy trick. . ." The punk growled, his knee-jerk reaction to seeing all these illusory copies of his cards. "Ya wanna slug-fest huh? That's what the hell yer gonna get!" Rulao draws a card, then has his Cosmic Isopod and Kelp Forest both attack the other Kelp Forest, allowing him to draw two more cards giving him six in total and just enough to activate the effect of his Kelp Forest and Shipwreck Hermit. He discards two cards creating a 1/1 copy of a Mesmer Mantis and Mossen Crushclaw



Then plays a Mossen Crushclaw.



Using the Mantis's effect, Bennie's Shipwreck Hermit that bears the effect of Kelp Forest of the Deep, has it's effect swapped with the 1/1 copy of Summoned Society Horror.

"The hell're all these Ace cards anyway?" Rulao muses, "You'll start a club and didn't invite me?"

He scowls at the thought of the Society Horror's effect lasting another two turns. "This sure is gonna be a slog after all." He states, getting his cards into combat poses.

Frothing Shore, Longarm Snatcher, and Mesmer Mantis copies all attack Bennie's Kelp Forest of the Deep with three hearts to destroy it.

Then his Shipwreck Hermit and normal Longarm Snatcher both attack Bennie's Shipwreck Hermit, reducing it to zero hearts.

Finally, the original 1/1 Mossen Crushclaw copy attacks Bennie's Summoned Society Horror to destroy it and remain unharmed.

Spoiler: Rulao's Status (click to show/hide)

HEARTS: 20
STARS: 0
HAND: 3
DECK: 15

FIELD -
- Hearts 3/7
- Hearts 6/7 -- Whenever this card is attacked, draw a card.
- 1/1 Copy
  - 1/1 Copy

Hearts - 1/5 -- Once per turn you may discard a card to play a 1/1 copy of it.
- Hearts 2/4
- 1/1 Copy
- 1/1 Copy

- 1/1 Copy
- 1/1 Copy

(( I wonder if the audience looking in would find this match of interest or not. The Soul Mirror/Horror combo was an awesome twist! Couldn't have had better timing for them if ya ask me, Bennie's got a pretty rad deck.

Forgive me in advanced if there are any inaccuracies this time around, I'mhaving a hard time keeping a good ledger of all this data, exclusively posting through my phone as I do.))

[TricMagic]

Lets see here...
- It is not possible to attack with a card on the turn it is "created".
- The society horror effect does not require the card to remain in play.
- I don't have a good answer for if a card that is "Played" as a result of another card effect due to contradictory things that happened in the game. For the time being I am ruling that *Deliberately* playing a card with a Star cost as a result of a card effect costs stars while *Non-Deliberately* playing a card with a star cost as a result of a card effect does not.

Umm... Any other GM rulings needed?

There are a lot of unclear things about how cards work, and I am sort of regretting making some things the way that I did because of things like this. Honestly I wasn't expecting this game to last as long as it did. Might need to make some changes after the tournament resolves in order to smooth things out if this is to continue.

(Time for a rules update. And I fully expected this to last playerside. It's fun. And I'm much better at building up decks over time than when I have to pick from a bunch of cards I just got.)
(Honestly, just have season 2 have different rules. Season 1 is the wonky season where they make no sense. Like Yugioh..)


Kind of a mirror of mine, but more creepy. Ugh, fighting yourself is a staple of some anime, but still mean. Not that it would help much if both PreCure were on the field, since they could just take out the copies of their firend.

...On that, it's not the most useful if played as is. You use up your turn, and your foe can often pick apart your board with impunity. Nothing at all like my Perpendicular Path.

[Shadowclaw777]

“To join the secret club you should of just accepted the principle’s invitation it was a very cool moment to experience, anyways I play another Runic Magecraft: Gandr and target your 2/1 Mossen Crushclaw. Let’s see you destroyed my Society Horror, Kelp Forest, and Shipwreck Hermit…”

I use this card to deal 3 damage to the Mossen Crushclaw destroying it

As for my attacks
My copy of Cosmic Isopod attacks my copy of your switched description Kelp Forest to draw a card.
My copy of your Mossen Crushclaw attacks your Frothing Shore, destroying it but not taking damage in the process
My copy of your Long-arm Snatcher attacks your  Shipwreck Hermit, destroying it and taking 2 damage in the process
My copy of your 1/1 Long Arm Snatcher attacks your 1/1 Long Arm Snatcher, destroying both
My copy of your 1/1 Frothing Shore attacks your 1/1 Mesmer Mantis, destroying both
My copy of your 1/1 Mesmer Mantis attacks your second 1/1 Mesmer Mantis, destroying both.

Spoiler: Bennie’s Status (click to show/hide)

Hearts: 12
Stars: 1
Hand: 5
Deck: 26
Graveyard: Runic Magecraft: Gandr x2, Bank of All-Seeing Stars, Corrupted Executive, Soul Mirror, Summoned Society Horror, Kelp Forest of the Reef, Shipwreck Hermit

My board:
- Hearts 6/7 -- Whenever this card is attacked, draw a card.
- 1/1 Copy
2/4

(Notify me if I made any mistakes)

[Unraveller]

Rulao scoffs, "Ah I get it, those're yer hand out cards from ol' Pete. Can't rely on yer own SOUL!?" He roars, drawing a card, then two more from having his Cosmic Isopod and Kelp Forest attack the swapped effect Kelp Forest.

He uses the effect of his Kelp Forest of the Deep to discard a Cosmic Isopod, then playing a 1/1 copy thereof. Gaining a star.



Then he plays a Mesmer Mantis! Using it's effect to swap Bennie's Kelp Forest of the Deep that bears the drawing effect onto his Cosmic Isopod.



"I'll beat you down, an' I'll keep beatin' ya down. Got that?!"

Rulao's Longarm Snatcher destroys Bennie's Cosmic Isopod, allowing him to draw a card.

Finally, the two Mossen Crushclaw copies both attack Bennie's Longarm Snatcher, destroying it and escaped unscathed.

Spoiler: Rulao's Status (click to show/hide)

HEARTS: 20
STARS: 1
HAND: 4
DECK: 12

FIELD -
- Hearts 3/7
- Hearts 6/7 -- Whenever this card is attacked, draw a card.
- 1/1 Copy
  - 1/1 Copy
- Hearts 2/4

- 1/1 copy

(( Does the Horror's effect wear off next turn as it will be Bennie's third turn ending having played it? So I can play zero attack cards or will I have to wait for the turn after? Just trying to figure out when the 'turn' count goes by. Since Bennie goes second, is a global 'turn' when he ends? ))

[Supernerd]

It stands to reason that if the effect is for "Three turns" then when the next turn progresses to the stage where the card was initially played, one turn has passed.

... I will mention that I don't see the post where a Summoned Society Horror was actually played.

[Shadowclaw777]

"It seems your deck is getting to its tipping point, anything I should be worried that you have planned in the future?, thanks for the additional card I drew this turn"

I use Fallen's Paladin effect to deal 1 damage to your 1/1 Cosmic Isopod to destroy it.

As for attacks, my 1/1 copy of your Mossen Crushclaw attacks your 1/2 Mesmer Mantis and it takes 1 damage to itself in the process, but the Crushclaw is unharmed

However I drew a lucky card that has synergy with my Corrupted Exectutive, hello one of my copies of Cryptocurrency Investor and it now has quickplay.


Now I pass my turn over to you.

Spoiler: Bennie’s Status (click to show/hide)

Hearts: 12
Stars: 1
Hand: 5
Deck: 24
Graveyard: Runic Magecraft: Gandr x2, Bank of All-Seeing Stars, Corrupted Executive, Soul Mirror, Summoned Society Horror, Kelp Forest of the Reef, Shipwreck Hermit, Frothing Shore, Long-Arm Snatcher x2, 1/1 Mesmer Mantis

My board:
- Hearts 6/7 --
- 1/1 Copy
https://i.imgur.com/V0Ijqqp.png[/img]

[Unraveller]

"Maybe you'll find out after yer bullshit tricks are over with, and ya let me fight ya like a man you coward." He growls, just another turn he figures. He can hold out. Rulao draws a card, then two more as expected, using his Cosmic Isopod and Kelp Forest to attack the other.

He discards a card, unsurprisingly playing another Cosmic Isopod copy, the skittering star generators nearly a fourth of his deck.



Using that star, Rulao plays a Shipwreck Hermit to bolster the field!



His two Crushclaws attack Bennie's Investor, reducing it to two hearts.

While the Mesmer Mantis and Longarm Snatcher copy both destroy themselves on the Fallen Paladin.

With nothing more to do thanks to the egregious play style of keeping him from playing anything but monsters for such a measly cost, Rulao ends his turn.

Spoiler: Rulao's Status (click to show/hide)

HEARTS: 20
STARS: 1
HAND: 5
DECK: 9

FIELD -
- Hearts 3/7
- Hearts 6/7 -- Whenever this card is attacked, draw a card.
- 1/1 Copy
  - 1/1 Copy

- 1/1 copy

[Shadowclaw777]

"Oh don't worry, I still have plenty of tricks still down these sleeves, I just need to make sure that things align correctly for me to play my cards. Anyways, I play my third Starcoin Inside Trader.


I choose to gain a Star from this card's effect, and now it's time for attacking.
My copy of the 1/1 Mossen Crushclaw attacks the 1/1 Cosmic Isopod, destroying it but doesn't take damage and so it survives
My 1/2 Cryptocurrency Investor attacks the 0/1 Cosmic Isopod, destroying it
 

Spoiler: Bennie’s Status (click to show/hide)

Hearts: 12
Stars: 1
Hand: 5
Deck: 23
Graveyard: Runic Magecraft: Gandr x2, Bank of All-Seeing Stars, Corrupted Executive, Soul Mirror, Summoned Society Horror, Kelp Forest of the Reef, Shipwreck Hermit, Frothing Shore, Long-Arm Snatcher x2, 1/1 Mesmer Mantis, Fallen Paladin

My board:
- Hearts 6/7 --
- 1/1 Copy
2/4 Hearts

[Unraveller]

"So ya admit yer a coward?" He sneers not even bothering to accept a response. Rulao draws a card, then one more for having his Kelp Forest attack the other. Glad to be rid of the Summoned Horror's effect, he plays a Symbol of the Crimson Claw!



He discards and plays a 1/1 copy of his final Cosmic Isopod. The symbol burning bright, a 4/4 creature comes out onto the field!



With that, his Shipwreck Hermit attacks and destroys Bennie's Mossen Crushclaw. While Rulao's own Crushclaw Copies destroy the guy's Crypto Investor! With that he ends his turn.

Spoiler: Rulao's Status (click to show/hide)

HEARTS: 20
STARS: 1
HAND: 6
DECK: 6

FIELD -
- Hearts 3/7
- Hearts 6/7 -- Whenever this card is attacked, draw a card.
- 1/1 Copy
  - 1/1 Copy
- 4/4 Copy
- Hearts 4/5