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Author Topic: What worldgen settings cause a necromancer apocalypse?  (Read 2699 times)

ChaosPotato

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What worldgen settings cause a necromancer apocalypse?
« on: June 13, 2021, 12:57:41 am »

I've tried just increasing the amount of secrets, but necromancers still aren't doing much.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: What worldgen settings cause a necromancer apocalypse?
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2021, 02:14:35 am »

There is no guaranteed way. However, lots of humans (they're good at waging wars that get people worried about their mortality) is one aspect. A very long history is another (as long as necros can appear they will continue to do so over history, and it only takes one failure to beat them back for undead to take over.

I suspect a 10000 year history would either lead to an undead or a goblin take over in most cases. That takes a lot of time to generate, though.
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DoubleG

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Re: What worldgen settings cause a necromancer apocalypse?
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2021, 02:18:25 pm »

Max secrets is 1000. I always have that many and get some necro towers around. I also increase the max number of civilisations, as I read somewhere that each tower counts as its own civ. I always seem to have towers around. I only gen about 120 years of history, as it takes so long. But longer history leads to more towers, leads to more undead, leads to potential zombie apocalypse.

Humans, and by extension. towers, would probably do better in low savagery worlds, with plenty of plains. You could probably tweak plenty of other world gen parameters to help them thrive.
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Bumber

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Re: What worldgen settings cause a necromancer apocalypse?
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2021, 02:25:39 pm »

I wouldn't expect max secrets to help, but more civs probably means more death gods to grant them.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: What worldgen settings cause a necromancer apocalypse?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2021, 04:34:39 pm »

Necro towers aren't actually civs, but rather site governments that don't belong to any civ (and they can very occasionally somehow settle sites (resulting in new site governments) that become subservient to the tower site government.

Unless DF runs out of space to place civs, it will place as many civs as you specified in your parameters (and if you run out of suitable locations for one type of civs the other entity types continue to be placed until out of space for all of them, or the specified number of civs have been placed). Necro towers thus don't count, nor do the actual civs resulting from dorfs digging too deep. It can also be noted that the subterranean "civs" don't count either.
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rico6822

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Re: What worldgen settings cause a necromancer apocalypse?
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2021, 03:22:03 pm »

Easiest guide:

Pocket world size.
8 Civilizations to prevent rejections. That should do.
1000 secrets.
0 savagery on all it's settings and aspects. Lowest possible. Also because there are no squares above 65 savagery animal people never spawn.
No caves or caverns. Prevents kobold civs.
No good or evil squares at all.
Dwarven and human civs only can become necros.
Set demons to 0 to prevent goblins from showing up.
Prohibit forests from forming by setting their desired amounts to 0 and having your max rainfall set to 65. Elfs won't spawn.
Any other clearly hostile creature not being necromancer set to 0. You can let bogeymen be.
No regional activities. Those are evil clouds.
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ChaosPotato

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Re: What worldgen settings cause a necromancer apocalypse?
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2021, 11:53:04 pm »

Easiest guide:

Pocket world size.
8 Civilizations to prevent rejections. That should do.
1000 secrets.
0 savagery on all it's settings and aspects. Lowest possible. Also because there are no squares above 65 savagery animal people never spawn.
No caves or caverns. Prevents kobold civs.
No good or evil squares at all.
Dwarven and human civs only can become necros.
Set demons to 0 to prevent goblins from showing up.
Prohibit forests from forming by setting their desired amounts to 0 and having your max rainfall set to 65. Elfs won't spawn.
Any other clearly hostile creature not being necromancer set to 0. You can let bogeymen be.
No regional activities. Those are evil clouds.
I want
a normal world
just with a few very powerful necromancers.
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rico6822

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Re: What worldgen settings cause a necromancer apocalypse?
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2021, 07:19:25 am »

Easiest guide:

Pocket world size.
8 Civilizations to prevent rejections. That should do.
1000 secrets.
0 savagery on all it's settings and aspects. Lowest possible. Also because there are no squares above 65 savagery animal people never spawn.
No caves or caverns. Prevents kobold civs.
No good or evil squares at all.
Dwarven and human civs only can become necros.
Set demons to 0 to prevent goblins from showing up.
Prohibit forests from forming by setting their desired amounts to 0 and having your max rainfall set to 65. Elfs won't spawn.
Any other clearly hostile creature not being necromancer set to 0. You can let bogeymen be.
No regional activities. Those are evil clouds.
I want
a normal world
just with a few very powerful necromancers.

In that case set amount of caves to few, remove rainfall limit I told you to do and allow demons. Now all races can be.
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ChaosPotato

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Re: What worldgen settings cause a necromancer apocalypse?
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2021, 03:02:29 pm »

Easiest guide:

Pocket world size.
8 Civilizations to prevent rejections. That should do.
1000 secrets.
0 savagery on all it's settings and aspects. Lowest possible. Also because there are no squares above 65 savagery animal people never spawn.
No caves or caverns. Prevents kobold civs.
No good or evil squares at all.
Dwarven and human civs only can become necros.
Set demons to 0 to prevent goblins from showing up.
Prohibit forests from forming by setting their desired amounts to 0 and having your max rainfall set to 65. Elfs won't spawn.
Any other clearly hostile creature not being necromancer set to 0. You can let bogeymen be.
No regional activities. Those are evil clouds.
I want
a normal world
just with a few very powerful necromancers.

In that case set amount of caves to few, remove rainfall limit I told you to do and allow demons. Now all races can be.
I don't just mean
a world with all the races
I don't want to stray very far from a regular DF world, and I don't want a LOT of necromancers, just a few very powerful ones.
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Schmaven

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Re: What worldgen settings cause a necromancer apocalypse?
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2021, 08:37:56 pm »

I don't just mean
a world with all the races
I don't want to stray very far from a regular DF world, and I don't want a LOT of necromancers, just a few very powerful ones.

I'm not sure I would classify just a few powerful necromancers as a necromancer apocalypse.  To reach apocalyptic status, you shouldn't be able to shut it down with 1 or 2 adventure mode runs.  I suppose once those few become powerful enough it would be world ending.  But in that case, I think the main factor would just be the age of the world and some RNG luck.  Previous suggestions of reducing savagery may or may not help with that.  I'm not sure if necromancers in world gen add all cirpses slain to their armies or just those from raids and ghe like.  If they don't utilize the savagery, then it would slow their domination.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: What worldgen settings cause a necromancer apocalypse?
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2021, 02:45:54 am »

Necro armies tend to consist of raised former sapients plus experimental creatures (both sapient and "animal" ones), but no reanimated animals. Thus, reduced savagery probably won't deprive necros of any useful corpses. High savagery can cause animal people to be present than thus allow them to join civs, but high savagery hampers civ expansion (and thus the increase of potential bodies for reanimation), so I'd expect high savagery is worse for the total population than a low one (it provides variety, but reanimated animal people aren't particularly different from reanimated "normal" people, on average).
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ChaosPotato

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Re: What worldgen settings cause a necromancer apocalypse?
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2021, 11:13:17 pm »

I don't just mean
a world with all the races
I don't want to stray very far from a regular DF world, and I don't want a LOT of necromancers, just a few very powerful ones.
To reach apocalyptic status, you shouldn't be able to shut it down with 1 or 2 adventure mode runs.
That's
literally what I'm going for.
I specifically want a necromancer apocalypse so I can kill the necromancers in adventure mode.
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rico6822

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Re: What worldgen settings cause a necromancer apocalypse?
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2021, 01:14:39 am »

I don't just mean
a world with all the races
I don't want to stray very far from a regular DF world, and I don't want a LOT of necromancers, just a few very powerful ones.
To reach apocalyptic status, you shouldn't be able to shut it down with 1 or 2 adventure mode runs.
That's
literally what I'm going for.
I specifically want a necromancer apocalypse so I can kill the necromancers in adventure mode.

Set mineral scarcity to 100 for better weapons. Some intelligent undead can cause blindness, pain, paralysis, or dizziness. You cannot play as vanilla character with immunities to all of them. Some intelligent undead can completely freeze anyone in place and make them unable to dodge. A.I. is programmed to always target heads of targets who are unable to do a thing.

You will pretty much lose if you encounter particularly blessed undead unless you will be so insanely skilled at ambusher that they won't care if you are punching them in the head while being prone. Seriously, I killed one of them like that without a violent force from them.

As a safest method of dodge training I can recommend you wrestling a tamed cave blob. At least if you are of human size their attacks cannot make you bleed, leave scars or make permanent injuries. Tamed cave blobs also won't permanently leave you and no longer be your companions as a result of endless brawl or at least that's what I had. I spended merely few in-game hours, maybe 3-4 grinding my dodging from competent to legend on a single cave blob. I did suffered from it's syndrome that induces small pain but that's it. Travelling dispels blisters as the poison is not injected.
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ChaosPotato

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Re: What worldgen settings cause a necromancer apocalypse?
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2021, 03:12:10 am »

I don't just mean
a world with all the races
I don't want to stray very far from a regular DF world, and I don't want a LOT of necromancers, just a few very powerful ones.
To reach apocalyptic status, you shouldn't be able to shut it down with 1 or 2 adventure mode runs.
That's
literally what I'm going for.
I specifically want a necromancer apocalypse so I can kill the necromancers in adventure mode.

Set mineral scarcity to 100 for better weapons. Some intelligent undead can cause blindness, pain, paralysis, or dizziness. You cannot play as vanilla character with immunities to all of them. Some intelligent undead can completely freeze anyone in place and make them unable to dodge. A.I. is programmed to always target heads of targets who are unable to do a thing.

You will pretty much lose if you encounter particularly blessed undead unless you will be so insanely skilled at ambusher that they won't care if you are punching them in the head while being prone. Seriously, I killed one of them like that without a violent force from them.

As a safest method of dodge training I can recommend you wrestling a tamed cave blob. At least if you are of human size their attacks cannot make you bleed, leave scars or make permanent injuries. Tamed cave blobs also won't permanently leave you and no longer be your companions as a result of endless brawl or at least that's what I had. I spended merely few in-game hours, maybe 3-4 grinding my dodging from competent to legend on a single cave blob. I did suffered from it's syndrome that induces small pain but that's it. Travelling dispels blisters as the poison is not injected.
I wasn't
asking for advice for fighting necromancers
but ok.
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vjek

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Re: What worldgen settings cause a necromancer apocalypse?
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2021, 08:35:11 am »

Not sure if this qualifies, but it seems to:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This world has >27 sites with animated humanoids/monsters.  Many have many tens of animated/monsters per site.
It also has a single site with >1100 animated humanoids/monsters.
I didn't make this world specifically for this purpose, it just happens to align with some pro-necromancer parameters.
If you look at world_sites_and_pops.txt, in vanilla DF, you should see, at the beginning of the file:
Civilized World Population

   14 Dwarves
   456 Humans
   252 Elves

   Total: 722

and further in the file, site 33:

33: Emegvope, "Vesselstabs", tower
   Owner: The Truthful Bases, humans
   177 humans
   91 elves
   214 Cloutbow's eyes
   5 dwarves
   130 wolves of Emegvope
   210 Cloutbow's creatures
   30 night's experiments
   120 nightmares of Cloutbow
   303 animated humans
   52 animated dwarves
   54 animated elves


If you're using a modded/non-vanilla version of DF, you won't get this world from these worldgen parameters.
Apparently Cloutbow, whoever/whatever that is?  They are a pretty successful necromancer in this world.  8)

EDIT: This world is similar, lots of monsters, one site with >1000 monsters/demons/mistakes/animated, at least another site with 340 animated demons, which is kind of interesting..
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EDIT2: This world has 18 sites with >75 animated humans (including 11 sites with >150, up to 295). 
Bad world for humans, good world for at least one necromancer.  :D
It also has a single site (23, Spearankle, Tower) with ~1800 monsters/animated.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 26, 2021, 09:09:54 am by vjek »
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