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[FallacyofUrist]

@FoU:
Voting me also gives the town more information. If you think I'm mafia it's straight up a win-win from your POV.

So what is it? Am I your top town read or not? Jack has decided I'm not and that nobody can be trusted and that everyone is suspicious.

Jack is my top town read. You're... third place, now. Roden's taken your place.

Lame. I'm used to the Champs game so if mafia are allowed not to kill I wasn't aware of that. This makes it an even better reason for you to vote me.

So functionally speaking... if the mafia can just no-kill until we execute someone, we may as well get to the voting? That... does make sense. I guess.

[ToonyMan]

Like seriously, we get put in mylo for D2 and the mafia are also allowed not to perform their kill? How much can you handicap the town?

@TricMagic:
Please clarify if mafia have to perform the NK.

[ToonyMan]

@FoU:
Voting me also gives the town more information. If you think I'm mafia it's straight up a win-win from your POV.
So what is it? Am I your top town read or not? Jack has decided I'm not and that nobody can be trusted and that everyone is suspicious.

Jack is my top town read. You're... third place, now. Roden's taken your place.

So unless the team is exactly Magma/Pref then we're fine. Your latest POE was Magma/Roden so how is Roden your second highest town read now? Walk me through the steps.

[ToonyMan]

I realize I'm being too tryhard for a veteran in a newbie game.

I'll layoff a bit until I've done the Web/FoU analysis which should give time for other players to post.

[FallacyofUrist]

So unless the team is exactly Magma/Pref then we're fine. Your latest POE was Magma/Roden so how is Roden your second highest town read now? Walk me through the steps.

The factors involving Roden didn't change. It's more like your question of 'who would your partner be if you were really mafia' made me reconsider Prefuzek's own behavior.

Yes, your recent behavior is just that scummy to me. You're earning points back with your inquisitive mindset, though. Good on you.

[EuchreJack]

@FoU:
Vote me FoU if you want to narrow down who could be mafia.

I'm willing to bet scum...

I'm not.

UNVOTE

Also: How dumb can I be?  I was so caught up in the idea of needing to nullify Toonyman's vote, since we can't vote today, that I forgot without hammers we got several days Realtime before this artificial day ends.
Unvoting is the right move here.

Like seriously, we get put in mylo for D2 and the mafia are also allowed not to perform their kill? How much can you handicap the town?

@TricMagic:
Please clarify if mafia have to perform the NK.

I had actually considered that scenario.  In the event that mafia does not have to NK, we run into a Happily Ever After scenario, where both sides do nothing.

Spoiler: Disclaimer (click to show/hide)

Assuming for the sake of this argument that the Town PR is tracker, that can catch mafia if they NK, rather than Jailkeeper, that can actually allow town the possibility to win even with a mislynch by correcting guessing the NK or the scum player that will execute the NK.  Unfortunately, only mafia and the PR know which way it is, and This Day is not The Day to give Town that info, as much as we'd like to know.

Overall, the standoff benefits Town.  They have more time to ferret out the scum, and can eventually end the standoff when they are confident they have found one scum.  Scum, on the other hand, can only hunt for the PR, which has marginal utility.  Scum has most of the cards: Letting Town get more info benefits town, which is the result of the Happily Ever After scenario.

Granted, it would be better if mafia had to NK, but its not unwinnable.

[EuchreJack]

So unless the team is exactly Magma/Pref then we're fine. Your latest POE was Magma/Roden so how is Roden your second highest town read now? Walk me through the steps.

The factors involving Roden didn't change. It's more like your question of 'who would your partner be if you were really mafia' made me reconsider Prefuzek's own behavior.

Yes, your recent behavior is just that scummy to me. You're earning points back with your inquisitive mindset, though. Good on you.

Speaking of which, FOU, Toonyman, and myself have answered Toonyman's questions, so we all get Townie points.  Not answering earns scum points.

To recap:

@Toonyman [Veteran Player]: I don't think I've ever played D2 before.  Could you tell me generally what we are supposed to be doing?

Let's play a game within a game.

Everyone, join me please.

Pretend you're mafia. If you're already mafia then just be honest.

Answer these question:
1. Who is your mafia partner in this world?
2. What is your reasoning for killing Bluarian on N1?

I'll answer first.

My mafia partner would be Roden.
We kill Bluarian instead of Jack or Magma because we can just push for a Pref or Rolan lynch on D2. With Rolan being modkilled we change our POE to Pref/Magma. It is an easy victory.

So Pref, Magma, and Roden, you need to answer this, or those of us who have answered must conclude your answer to be "I'm totally mafia, so I'm not answering"
Come play a game_{within a game} with us!

[EuchreJack]

Obviously, what Toonyman is doing here is stirring up the mud by using a reads list that I no longer believe.  So I'm going to update the reads list, based upon NEW information.  We can't ignore new information, like Toonyman seems to be determined to do.  Older is NOT better, in this situation.  The opposite, instead, is true.

Roden: So fucking townie I can't believe it.  While I suspect everyone, I suspect Roden the least.  If Toonyman hadn't killed our 1-shot Bulletproof, I'd say the smart play for Roden would be to lie about being the 1-shot Bulletproof, so we'd actually have them around D3.  Jailkeeper, there is your target!

Pref: Needs to start delivering on promises.  So null for now.

Toonyman: This is more a null read, but wanted to indicated it was scum leaning.  And getting scummier by the second.  That last gambit really broke my town confidence in them.  The lying doesn't help.

Magma Mater: I saw you watching Toony's gambit.  If Toony is town, you're scum.

FOU: Ugh, I guess Web probably was mafia trying to buddy me.  FOU just didn't get the memo.  Their answer to Toony's hypothetical was riddled with errors. But, I should mention to the rest of you, only FOU and I played the game.  What's your excuse? This list is continuing to evolve you know...

Roden, you really need to play Toonyman's game, because you have the furthest to fall if you don't.
Pref, you are starting to develop a track record for not following through.  I hate to add another thing to your plate, but if you don't answer, I'll be commenting how you can't be trusted.
Toonyman, congratulations on being the fastest to spend your town points on your stupid gambits.  Your game within a game and what I regard as honest answers is probably the only reason you're anywhere near null range.
Magma, I think this exercise could be a good boost for your ratings!
FOU, bad answers, and is being punished for it.  But not as bad as if they never answered in the first place!  Don't be like FOU.  Answer honestly.

[TricMagic]

You realize they don't have to kill, right?

All they have to do is... no action. Don't use the factional kill.

It works because it preserves the game state at MYLO. A mis-execution wins them the game either way, so why would they act and give the town more information?

Because it's bad pacing. If they try and do that twice in this sort of situation, I am forcing the issue. Pacing is important, and an endless stall is either good for town cops or bad for the game in general.

[Roden]

Jack, I don't actually have to answer the questions at this point. Wanna know why?

It couldn't be a Magma/Toony team, couldn't it? Shit, it absolutely could. Now I'm worried.

Gonna have to keep me and Magma alive for lylo tomorrow, ahaha.

This proves I was absolutely right with my night kill prediction. Only you've now been wiped from the list, Jack, because you literally can't help but make scummy posts every five minutes. I'm the only option for the night kill now because if anyone else dies, scum expose who the true pair is due to losing WIFOM factor in the end game. And I will be the night kill since Tric has confirmed he won't allow stalling.

Toony, I was fake fighting with you earlier to avoid this outcome. I wanted scum to take me to end game since I claimed I would vote you, but then reveal that was a gambit so we could just out scum on the spot. I hoped with Jack's death we'd be able to solve the game but I know now that it won't happen.

[Roden]

I'm willing to just take FoU down with me at this point btw. Pretty sure he scum slipped. Also heavily doubting my town read on Jack as well, pretty sure he fell for Toony's vote gambit and is flailing as he fails to recover from it.

[EuchreJack]

Jack, I don't actually have to answer the questions at this point. Wanna know why?

It couldn't be a Magma/Toony team, couldn't it? Shit, it absolutely could. Now I'm worried.

Gonna have to keep me and Magma alive for lylo tomorrow, ahaha.

This proves I was absolutely right with my night kill prediction. Only you've now been wiped from the list, Jack, because you literally can't help but make scummy posts every five minutes. I'm the only option for the night kill now because if anyone else dies, scum expose who the true pair is due to losing WIFOM factor in the end game. And I will be the night kill since Tric has confirmed he won't allow stalling.

Toony, I was fake fighting with you earlier to avoid this outcome. I wanted scum to take me to end game since I claimed I would vote you, but then reveal that was a gambit so we could just out scum on the spot. I hoped with Jack's death we'd be able to solve the game but I know now that it won't happen.

Welp, might as well just embrace the scum at this point with a super scummy post...
New reads list:
Pref: Needs to start delivering on promises.  So null for now. But might actually do so.  Might be Town?

Toonyman: This is more a null read, but wanted to indicated it was scum leaning.  And getting scummier by the second.  That last gambit really broke my town confidence in them.  The lying doesn't help.

Magma Mater: I saw you watching Toony's gambit.  If Toony is town, you're scum. But you CAN redeem yourself, answer the questions!

FOU: Ugh, I guess Web probably was mafia trying to buddy me.  FOU just didn't get the memo.  Their answer to Toony's hypothetical was riddled with errors. But, I should mention to the rest of you, only FOU and I played the game.  What's your excuse? This list is continuing to evolve you know...

Roden: So fucking townie scummy I can't believe it.  While I suspect everyone, I suspect Roden the least.  If Toonyman hadn't killed our 1-shot Bulletproof, I'd say the smart play for Roden would be to lie about being the 1-shot Bulletproof, so we'd actually have them around D3.  Jailkeeper, there is your target!  Please kill them mafia, I don't want to keep thinking they're on the scum team!

[EuchreJack]

Jack, I don't actually have to answer the questions at this point. Wanna know why?

It couldn't be a Magma/Toony team, couldn't it? Shit, it absolutely could. Now I'm worried.

Gonna have to keep me and Magma alive for lylo tomorrow, ahaha.

This proves I was absolutely right with my night kill prediction. Only you've now been wiped from the list, Jack, because you literally can't help but make scummy posts every five minutes. I'm the only option for the night kill now because if anyone else dies, scum expose who the true pair is due to losing WIFOM factor in the end game. And I will be the night kill since Tric has confirmed he won't allow stalling.

Toony, I was fake fighting with you earlier to avoid this outcome. I wanted scum to take me to end game since I claimed I would vote you, but then reveal that was a gambit so we could just out scum on the spot. I hoped with Jack's death we'd be able to solve the game but I know now that it won't happen.

Welp, might as well just embrace the scum at this point with a super scummy post...
New reads list:
Roden: So fucking townie I can't believe it.  While I suspect everyone, I suspect Roden the least.  If Toonyman hadn't killed our 1-shot Bulletproof, I'd say the smart play for Roden would be to lie about being the 1-shot Bulletproof, so we'd actually have them around D3.  Jailkeeper, there is your target! Trying to jump on the bullet, how much more townie can you get

Pref: Needs to start delivering on promises.  So null for now. But might actually do so.  Might be Town?

Toonyman: This is more a null read, but wanted to indicated it was scum leaning.  And getting scummier by the second.  That last gambit really broke my town confidence in them.  The lying doesn't help.

Magma Mater: I saw you watching Toony's gambit.  If Toony is town, you're scum. But you CAN redeem yourself, answer the questions!

FOU: Ugh, I guess Web probably was mafia trying to buddy me.  FOU just didn't get the memo.  Their answer to Toony's hypothetical was riddled with errors. But, I should mention to the rest of you, only FOU and I played the game.  What's your excuse? This list is continuing to evolve you know...

My quick posting fingers get me in trouble again.  Roden's jumping on the bullet, quite a townie play.  I'd like them to play the game within the game, but I guess if they don't see any use it it, and they're jumping on the bullet, I can respect that.  Plus, if they're around D3, they can answer then!

[EuchreJack]

Jack, I don't actually have to answer the questions at this point. Wanna know why?

It couldn't be a Magma/Toony team, couldn't it? Shit, it absolutely could. Now I'm worried.

Gonna have to keep me and Magma alive for lylo tomorrow, ahaha.

This proves I was absolutely right with my night kill prediction. Only you've now been wiped from the list, Jack, because you literally can't help but make scummy posts every five minutes. I'm the only option for the night kill now because if anyone else dies, scum expose who the true pair is due to losing WIFOM factor in the end game. And I will be the night kill since Tric has confirmed he won't allow stalling.

Toony, I was fake fighting with you earlier to avoid this outcome. I wanted scum to take me to end game since I claimed I would vote you, but then reveal that was a gambit so we could just out scum on the spot. I hoped with Jack's death we'd be able to solve the game but I know now that it won't happen.

Welp, might as well just embrace the scum at this point with a super scummy post...
New reads list:
Roden: So fucking townie I can't believe it.  While I suspect everyone, I suspect Roden the least.  If Toonyman hadn't killed our 1-shot Bulletproof, I'd say the smart play for Roden would be to lie about being the 1-shot Bulletproof, so we'd actually have them around D3.  Jailkeeper, there is your target! Trying to jump on the bullet, how much more townie can you get

Pref: Needs to start delivering on promises.  So null for now. But might actually do so.  Might be Town?

Toonyman: This is more a null read, but wanted to indicated it was scum leaning.  And getting scummier by the second.  That last gambit really broke my town confidence in them.  The lying doesn't help.

Magma Mater: I saw you watching Toony's gambit.  If Toony is town, you're scum. But you CAN redeem yourself, answer the questions!

FOU: Ugh, I guess Web probably was mafia trying to buddy me.  FOU just didn't get the memo.  Their answer to Toony's hypothetical was riddled with errors. But, I should mention to the rest of you, only FOU and I played the game.  What's your excuse? This list is continuing to evolve you know...

My quick posting fingers get me in trouble again.  Roden's jumping on the bullet, quite a townie play.  I'd like them to play the game within the game, but I guess if they don't see any use it it, and they're jumping on the bullet, I can respect that.  Plus, if they're around D3, they can answer then!

[FallacyofUrist]

Yeah, Roden's really justifying me moving them up above Toony in my reads, now. I do appreciate that.

So the two teams I'm considering now are Toony/Magma and Toony/pref. It's... a tough call.

Okay, three teams. Pref/Magma.

Nobody's done anything outrageously scummy yet, so I'm probably going to have to dig a bit deeper. I thought I had things solved, but I guess not. Mafia's such a slippery game.