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Author Topic: Any tips for dealing with aquifer bugs?  (Read 1708 times)

Stormfeather

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Any tips for dealing with aquifer bugs?
« on: June 02, 2021, 11:49:18 pm »

Sorry if this is old ground, I looked around but couldn't find anything on the subject.

I'm coming back from a long break from the game, and of course first two embarks I try, I run smack into what I have since looked on Mantis and found to be bugs - aquifers showing up without being listed on embark, and said aquifers spreading so that you can't even really deal with them.

Are there any hints on how to deal with this? I'd kinda wanted to play again, but this has killed both of my fortresses as I was trying to get them off the ground. I can't really deal with aquifers anyhow. Since they're slow ones, I would think it'd be a good way to learn how to deal but the way they spread makes that a no-go.

Are there any tips for how to avoid them on embark? Are the bugged surprise aquifers as common as they're seeming to me so far, or did I just get really unlucky? Is there anything I can do other than dig however many levels past and avoid all the damp stone (which is annoying when it disrupts planned layers I've already started digging out, but if they're not horribly many z levels can maybe be done?)

Help!
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Any tips for dealing with aquifer bugs?
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2021, 03:22:46 am »

Wall of text warning...

The DF pre embark aquifer indicator error (i.e. showing no aquifer when there is one) affects the lower half of the world tiles, i.e. the line from the NW corner to the SE corner downwards, including the line. This means that embarks above that line aren't affected by that bug (there's another, older, bug that can show the presence of an aquifer when there is none, as well as clay when there is none, due to DF failing to take soil erosion caused by high elevations into account).

If you're using DFHack, the Embark Assistant plugin shows aquifers (and clay) correctly.

Aquifers appear whenever an aquifer supporting material makes up the layer at a depth of 3 or deeper. All soil types except true clay ones (ones that can be used as a source of clay, rather than the "fakes" that have clay in their names but aren't real clays) support aquifers, and a small number of rocks do (sandstone and conglomerate as a minimum).
DF generates 4 layers of soil normally, although it sometimes generates only 3 in deserts, which means there usually is an aquifer at a depth of 3 and/or 4 (blocked only if they're both clay when soil). At high elevations soil erosion can reduce the number of soil layers to 2/1/0, which means the soil is too shallow to allow for an aquifer. However, you can always end up with one or more layers of aquifer bearing rock under the soil.

It can also be noted that 5% of all aquifers are heavy one (the "old" type) while 95% of them are the light one. The wiki page on the double slit method is still the go-to resource for learning how to deal with heavy aquifers (it's quite tedious with all the cancellations).

Dealing with light aquifers is fairly easy, although it's still possible to screw up (I've done it, so I know it's possible):
- Time is of the essence. It's not extremely urgent, but make sure the dorfs involved in the aquifer penetration work aren't distracted by a lot of other tasks. Personally I use the standard two miners to do all of the work (and I use them as the sole workers for heavy aquifers as well), which means they need to have construction work enabled, and you shouldn't have any other construction tasks active during this time.
- Dig a single tile staircase down to a depth of at least 6 (aquifers leak down through the roof of the level below, so you need a solid level of (non aquifer bearing) rock (or clay) in between the lowest aquifer level and the first level you're going to use. Once you're past that barrier level you can cancel the further digging downwards if you want. At the bottom level, dig out an evaporation area of something like 5*5 (i.e. a room, or the beginning of a room, which can sit at the end of a corridor).
- Once you've dug out your evaporation area you can then start to both expand the staircase if you want a wider one, and plug the leaks. I use a 3*3 staircase with a "pillar" in the middle, but you use whatever structure you like. It's important that the expansion and plugging is done only one level at a time, since if you do all the digging first and perform the plugging afterwards you may have too high a water flow for the evaporation area to cope with it (it's possible to dig out an evaporation area large enough to deal even with a heavy aquifer, but that's a rather large area, and when you realize that the area you have is too small, you're really in a hurry to enlarge it, and it may already be too late).
So, dig out the top level. Since that level usually is soil, dig away the tiles perpendicular to any staircase tiles (including the center tile if you have one), but ignore the corners (aquifers don't leak diagonally. Water flows diagonally, but it somehow doesn't leak diagonally), and then build walls there (I use wood, but it would work with stone from below, if you've got enough of it. Obviously you need enough building material before embarking on this step, but I always start cutting down trees immediately on embark, so I've got plenty of it). Once you've built all the walls (don't forget the center tile, if you have one) you start with the next level below that one. If it's soil as well, just repeat the process. If, however, it's aquifer bearing rock, order the rock to be smoothed (don't forget to enable stone detailing on the workers intended for the task). You don't have to smooth the corners, but I do just because it looks nicer. Note that you don't have to do anything to the bugger level just below the aquifer.
- You're done. You can then start to build your fortress below the aquifer (although you may hit the first cavern, of course. I change the advance world gen parameters to give me a 15 level gap between the surface and the first cavern, so I can fit my fortress in there, unless the rock turns out to be aquifer bearing, in which case I have to adapt).
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Mobbstar

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Re: Any tips for dealing with aquifer bugs?
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2021, 09:12:46 am »

The DF pre embark aquifer indicator error (i.e. showing no aquifer when there is one) affects the lower half of the world tiles, i.e. the line from the NW corner to the SE corner downwards, including the line.

Here's a graphical aid.


Patrik's advice is good. I merely want to emphasise that light aquifers can be safely dug through by even untrained dwarves, and are typically shallow enough that the same one dwarf can dig out a sufficient evaporation area beneath. If you hit the caverns before the aquifer ends, those will drain the water and you won't need an evaporation area.

The amount of evaporation area required scales with the amount of tiles taking water in. 25 tiles should be plenty enough to safely breach most light aquifers. If you make the evaporation area too small, and your stairs are deep enough, you can make a new evaporation area above the old one, and use the old area as a cistern instead.

(Edit: using different image source; if you read this, i did a history preservation for YOU!)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2023, 03:09:22 am by Mobbstar »
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Garfunkel

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Re: Any tips for dealing with aquifer bugs?
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2021, 11:51:15 am »

I've never managed to get through heavy aquifer safely but I've done light aquifers multiple times, including stuff in the actual aquifer levels, for example a winding ramp through the aquifer levels.

You don't need to do everything beforehand like Patrick says - you can do it level by Z level. I wall off the corners too but that's just for eye candy. It is very easy, even with untrained dwarfs, to dig and construct before water starts piling up.

I don't know what you mean by a spreading aquifer. That the aquifer that is originally only in part of the embark area later "grows" to take over the entire embark area? I've never encountered anything like that.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Any tips for dealing with aquifer bugs?
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2021, 12:20:44 pm »

When I screwed up my light aquifer penetration a did do it a level at a time from the top down, and it eventually built up too much water to dig further (I may have had a rock aquifer as well, so there was more work to do than normal). I did eventually give up on that staircase, dug another, and then drained the first one sideways at the bottom and finished off the plugging, thus ending up with two shafts.

@Mobbstar: Your graphical aid is almost correct, but not quite: the corner to corner line belongs to the unknown side, not the known one.
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Stormfeather

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Re: Any tips for dealing with aquifer bugs?
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2021, 12:36:54 pm »

Thanks guys, I appreciate the help, and especially knowing that one half of the world map will still be "safe" so I can try to lean on that bit more in the future.

As for the "spreading" thing, I'm referring to this bug: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=11382

I would have had better luck on both my attempts at digging into the aquifer and containing the damage via constructed walls and floors if it weren't for that, but even after I had stuff constructed where the aquifer had been indicated (damp walls and such), it still kept pumping out water. -_- So yeah, that was fun.

I think I'll just try my best to avoid it for now, and if I end up on the wrong side of the tracks map for now, just try to dig below the aquifer if I run into it (which is annoying because I have PLANS for fortresses, dangit, but i'll just do my best)

Edit: Looking again, I guess that spreading aquifer wasn't actually a bug, but instead water from above coming in. Oh yay. So yeah, I guess I don't really see how to dig into an aquifer at all without intensive methods like plugs or w/e if you're still just going to have random water bleeding from above. So don't mind me. I'll just continue to avoid them like the plague. Although I really take issue with the "surprise aquifers" being marked as a minor bug.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 12:40:19 pm by Stormfeather »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Any tips for dealing with aquifer bugs?
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2021, 05:37:15 pm »

It really isn't that hard to learn how to deal with aquifers, and light ones are just mildly tedious, but I can certainly agree that sometimes you just don't want to deal with "other stuff" when you've got grand plans just waiting to be set in motion.

You CAN deal with light aquifers by just draining the water off or by letting it evaporate. Just make sure the staircase isn't so grand that you get cancellation spam because the water depth gets too high (and I don't like mud, which you obviously get with evaporation areas). You can actually deal with heavy aquifers by draining it off as well, although you need to dig it upwards from below (which means you must have had some other means to get down there, such as different geo biomes in different parts of the embark).
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Mobbstar

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Re: Any tips for dealing with aquifer bugs?
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2021, 12:41:08 am »

@Mobbstar: Your graphical aid is almost correct, but not quite: the corner to corner line belongs to the unknown side, not the known one.

I assure you, my graph matches how my installation of the game behaves. (0.47.05)



I think I'll just try my best to avoid it for now, and if I end up on the wrong side of the tracks map for now, just try to dig below the aquifer if I run into it (which is annoying because I have PLANS for fortresses, dangit, but i'll just do my best)

Ouch, I know that feeling. But hey, limitation breeds creativity! One idea's curse is another idea's rare blessing.

(Edit: using different image source; if you read this, i did a history preservation for YOU!)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2023, 03:10:29 am by Mobbstar »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Any tips for dealing with aquifer bugs?
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2021, 02:47:02 am »

@Mobbstar: Your graphical aid is almost correct, but not quite: the corner to corner line belongs to the unknown side, not the known one.

I assure you, my graph matches how my installation of the game behaves. (0.47.05)
:
Doesn't match what I found when I investigated it, but maybe it has changed since, as you indicate it doesn't behave that way now.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Any tips for dealing with aquifer bugs?
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2021, 06:04:59 am »

Water dripping from above gives dwarves good thoughts. There's no downside to it. Just let it drip down your stairwell and have it fall one level lower than the level you want your dwarves at into a wide area. Cover the hole with a grate.
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Mobbstar

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Re: Any tips for dealing with aquifer bugs?
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2021, 12:50:07 am »

Water dripping from above gives dwarves good thoughts.

Only if the water comes from the earth, then it's good. In contrast, getting dripped on by sky water is annoying.

(I guess this structure qualifies as communal shower?)

Atarlost

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Re: Any tips for dealing with aquifer bugs?
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2021, 07:10:30 pm »

Water dripping from above gives dwarves good thoughts. There's no downside to it. Just let it drip down your stairwell and have it fall one level lower than the level you want your dwarves at into a wide area. Cover the hole with a grate.

The downside is that liquid flow calculations are implicated in FPS death. 
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Bumber

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Re: Any tips for dealing with aquifer bugs?
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2021, 12:07:16 am »

Water dripping from above gives dwarves good thoughts. There's no downside to it. Just let it drip down your stairwell and have it fall one level lower than the level you want your dwarves at into a wide area. Cover the hole with a grate.

The downside is that liquid flow calculations are implicated in FPS death.

Only on a large scale, e.g., cavern lake.
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