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[ToonyMan]

Hmmm feel like the NQT wagon is bad. That means they aren't mafia though...probably at least one mafia on them right now if that's the case.

@Jack:
There's no way you're dead tonight Jack. Who kills Jack at night?

[webadict]

Hmmm feel like the NQT wagon is bad. That means they aren't mafia though...probably at least one mafia on them right now if that's the case.

Who?

[EuchreJack]

@Jack:
There's no way you're dead tonight Jack. Who kills Jack at night?

I would feel a lot better if NQT answered first. Keep thinking about it.

[ToonyMan]

Hmmm feel like the NQT wagon is bad. That means they aren't mafia though...probably at least one mafia on them right now if that's the case.

Who?

At least Tric.

[notquitethere]

Quick post before I go to bed (don't have time to respond to everything) but:

- Web is going full joker mode on us-- I'm genuinely undecided on how to react to this. One part of me thinks this is just a wild town approach to set scum off kilter; another part of me thinks you have to draw the line somewhere and eliminate incomprehensible players. I'll sleep on it.
- I made a start ISOing Blu and got sidetracked and finished off Return of the Obra Dinn instead. Guess I'll revisit tomorrow...
- Euchre, if you're town (I think you probably are) then even still, it's pretty unlikely you'll be NK'd N1. You've been easily led into wagoning a town player and I would bet scum would think they could do it again. Probably Fallacy or Jim gets NK'd, as they're independently minded and not many people suspect either of them. If I get executed today, maybe Prefuzek gets NK'd as the scum-team tie in won't work.

[webadict]

If I get executed today, maybe Prefuzek gets NK'd as the scum-team tie in won't work.

Not, say, Jim?

[ToonyMan]

@NQT:
Vote Web and I'll hop on.

[webadict]

Hmmm feel like the NQT wagon is bad. That means they aren't mafia though...probably at least one mafia on them right now if that's the case.

Who?

At least Tric.

If NQT is Town, I think TricMagic would be a tough sell for me as scum. If NQT is scum, then this wagon is pure af.

I'm convinced TricMagic isn't scum because they claimed their class immediately, which is a very reckless and impatient thing to do (and feels like town TricMagic). If TricMagic is scum, then TricMagic is the "head" scum. That means they are partnered with one of perfuzek or EuchreJack. I think perfuzek is technically the only player that works with this combination, since EuchreJack doesn't work for obvious reasons.

The only counter to that logic (from your perspective) is if you pair TricMagic and I, which, again, isn't possible, because I didn't notice this connection until a day ago, instead of using it immediately. And if that's the case, then I'm pretty much unreadable. Additionally, I've been antagonizing them the whole time, and there'd be no good reason to at this point, when I could just hold up a shield the rest of the day.

So, if you say TricMagic is scum, then perfuzek is scum, and if that's the case, NQT has some trash reading on perfuzek, and they've really gone all in on shielding scum.

That's the problem I have here, is that if NQT is Town, then it cannot be TricMagic as scum. If NQT is Town, then we've gotta take a look at BluarianKnight or ToonyMan. perfuzek is potentially lookable, but... Eh? If NQT is Town, that does lend credence to perfuzek being Town, but I'm still under the idea that perfuzek is likely scum, and having NQT defend them so hard is just not sitting well with me.

[FallacyofUrist]

Since I've already made my point about NQT's reads lists, I think I'd like to take another angle of analysis now, to hopefully offer some more evidence for or against his scumminess. Let's look at NQT's own cases.

Bluarian - Had an OMGUS type vote on Jack (who admittedly wasn't making any sense) and then joined the Tric wagon for reasons unknown.

Toony - Helpful and present in the thread... but no real push from them at all yet. Who's scum here, Toony?

Or. Correction. The lack thereof. NQT's vote for Toony was an anti-lurker vote, as far as I can tell. NQT's vote on Bluarian also seems to hold a significant lack of substance. If anything, the premise of it is inaccurate, as Blu gave some rationale for his vote on Tric.

Blu

Anyhow, TricMagic  - Who do you think are scum, currently?

What do you think of Tric's replies?

I think Tric's a little less scummy each post he makes - at first I thought it was him being coached, but.. honestly, he does have precedence of this sort of play as town.
My main suspicion is built off him playing way off his usual town!tells.. which, at the end of the day, is kind of shitty to do if he's improving, or trying not to get lynched for his play as town.

I'm going to UNVOTE him for now, because I'd like to dig through the thread for a solid base before hounding him, and if I can't find one.. he'll be pushed to null in my books.

So. What has NQT actually contributed here, in terms of cases and scum hunting? Not much that I can see, correct me if I'm wrong. How much has NQT contributed with direct intent to defend himself?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Tric

it reads as getting people to question if what they think is actually true.

I can only take this as a compliment! Of course I want people to question what they think is true when I know what they think is false!

Are you a sane killer nqt?

I have no kill powers or items.

Blu

Scum voting with scum to start a bandwagon isn't a hard stretch - I've seen you do it before as scum.

I agree, such things do happen. If you lynch me and when I flip town, who will you say the scum were on my wagon?

Blu, why are you "feeling NQT as scum"? The post with your vote only gave reasons why a scum!NQT might be partnered with Prefuzek, not why you think there's a scum!NQT to begin with. Explain your reads, please.

Fallacy,

This reads thing is really rather tedious. I can't see how you can honestly believe writing a few extra words to describe my opinion of one player over another is at all indicative of anything. Both prefuzek and Euchre were making "norm policing" votes which was worth commenting on: I don't think they're good votes, but I don't think they're scum indicative either.

I'm not discrediting you, you're discrediting yourself by insisting on this absurd line of inquiry.

Ultimately how town I think town players are is pretty arbitrary. I downgraded Prefuzek for having a "norm policing" case in my quickfire reads, upgraded him in my slowfire reads for his more developed play by that point.

Tell me, do you really think any of this is alignment indicative?

Yes, I do think these factors point to level of effort and where that effort is going, which is an alignment indicative trait.

Note: It would be a misrepresentation to say that NQT has contributed nothing towards ratting out the mafia, however, what he has contributed towards that goal is passive, low-effort, and far less in volume compared to the volume of his defenses.

So I'm fairly confident in my vote on notquitethere.

[prefuzek]

Oh boy, lots to catch up on. I won't be able to get to all of it tonight but I'll get started.

First impressions: I don't think anyone's made a very compelling case yet. The NQT wagon was started by FoU with an awful case, but don't have strong feelings on NQT yet. Web feels townier on reread, I'll explain more on D2. I don't like how much Toony mentions that he doesn't like Tric thinking he's town, feels like it could be over-honest scum. Some more stuff that feels bad from BK, and they didn't respond to my case so I'm happy with where my vote is. I'll do an isolated read of their posts and hopefully put a solid case together tomorrow morning.

EuchreJack:

Tric:

Don't drink and Mafia Jack, it makes you slip up. Can you see the chain of reasoning that brought you into this corner?

Why do you care if he sees it?

Now we start the bus...

Oh come on. Damned if I do, damned if I don't at this point.

Jim:

Okay, sure, you're not positive that webadict is scum. I'm not convinced wanting his inspect result is a worthwhile justification to not push him but I don't want to go in circles on this topic.

You're voting BluearianKnight over webadict. Do you feel more confident in your case on BluearianKnight than on webadict? You weren't earlier:

Shouldn't you be pushing your strongest read and most solid case?

It really, really feels like you're putting arbitrary obstacles in your path to avoid pushing webadict. I agree with you that I don't feel like it's likely for you two to be partners, but I continue to have a difficult time seeing how your actions are justified from your point of view.

By now I think I've gotten what I can out of webadict. Since my last post I'm actually leaning more town on them, and I think I might know what town webadict's plan is. I do feel more confident in my case on BK (they haven't responded to it), but I haven't really seen a compelling case from anyone yet this game.

NQT:

Prefuzek,
What do you think of Web and Blu's insistence that you're my scum partner?

I don't really understand the point of this question. Blu continues to sheep Web? Blu subtly lies in their explanation though:

You and Prez have interacted a little, but both sides have been painting the other in a positive light - in your first readlist, he seemed to have the most effort put into him, past Jack. Your second read-list pushed him up to the top of your town-reads.

They only give an example of you reading me positively; I've never done the same for you.

BluarianKnight: Why did you lie about my read on NQT? Why did you not respond to my case against you?

I think Tric's a little less scummy each post he makes - at first I thought it was him being coached, but.. honestly, he does have precedence of this sort of play as town.
My main suspicion is built off him playing way off his usual town!tells.. which, at the end of the day, is kind of shitty to do if he's improving, or trying not to get lynched for his play as town.

I'm going to UNVOTE him for now, because I'd like to dig through the thread for a solid base before hounding him, and if I can't find one.. he'll be pushed to null in my books.


I'm still suspicious of Prez - it's moreso a gut feeling, but his activity's been off to me.

Why so noncommittal? The day was far from over at this point; you're vote's not a danger parked on anyone. This was also a prime opportunity to put some pressure on me and respond to my case, since we had had plenty of interaction up to here. This fits into your pattern of dodging attention.

[BluarianKnight]

You and Prez have interacted a little, but both sides have been painting the other in a positive light - in your first readlist, he seemed to have the most effort put into him, past Jack. Your second read-list pushed him up to the top of your town-reads.

They only give an example of you reading me positively; I've never done the same for you.

You mean NQT?
I consider a null-vote positive - besides, it hasn't changed at all - after all this time? Unless you'd like to update it, you've been waiting for a while. You have barely interacted past putting him as null - and honestly, your only reason is 'I don't know'.

Alright then - I feel we've enough information for at least a base read - give me your read on NQT? I'm not taking 'not enough data' as an answer.

BluarianKnight: Why did you lie about my read on NQT? Why did you not respond to my case against you?

I think Tric's a little less scummy each post he makes - at first I thought it was him being coached, but.. honestly, he does have precedence of this sort of play as town.
My main suspicion is built off him playing way off his usual town!tells.. which, at the end of the day, is kind of shitty to do if he's improving, or trying not to get lynched for his play as town.

I'm going to UNVOTE him for now, because I'd like to dig through the thread for a solid base before hounding him, and if I can't find one.. he'll be pushed to null in my books.


I'm still suspicious of Prez - it's moreso a gut feeling, but his activity's been off to me.

Why so noncommittal? The day was far from over at this point; you're vote's not a danger parked on anyone. This was also a prime opportunity to put some pressure on me and respond to my case, since we had had plenty of interaction up to here. This fits into your pattern of dodging attention.

Dodging attention? There's plenty of ways of dodging attention - you take a gander at Toony, Jim, or (recently) you - they've all been rather quiet, and haven't been hitting anything dangerous.

I'm scumhunting, carefully and slowly - I leaned off Tric because I didn't believe he was scum anymore. He was the most voted at the time (I think?) So I wanted to take my vote off him before I forgot. Then NQT started building up, and his actions lead me to jump onto him - alongside decent cases from Web and Tric.


As for your case against me..

Honestly? I missed it - genuinely. I'll reply to it tomorrow. Gotta sleep.

[notquitethere]

Fallacy: *spends the day stamping on my face*
Me: you can stop that
Fallacy: why are you spending time defending yourself scum???
Me: please look at literally anyone else as well
Fallacy: more defensiveness, I am so certain in this


Good morning. Webadict, your routine is fun, don't get me wrong, but it's set to lose town the game. Who do you vote when I flip town?


I feel better about Fallacy, Tric, Euchre and to a lesser extent Web now. They're appearing to try to solve even if they're tunneling. Prefuzek has come back swinging. Jim has kept a lower profile this long weekend. 

Toony feels a bit off to me still, but maybe not as much as before. He's asking me to vote Web, but that feels like he's trying to set a trap.

That leaves Blu who is just wagonning. He cites Web and Tric's potential scum compositions as reason to vote me, but those weren't reasons at all, those scenarios were imagining I was scum and then trying to work out who could be my partner; but I'm not scum, so...

[EuchreJack]

- Euchre, if you're town (I think you probably are) then even still, it's pretty unlikely you'll be NK'd N1. You've been easily led into wagoning a town player and I would bet scum would think they could do it again. Probably Fallacy or Jim gets NK'd, as they're independently minded and not many people suspect either of them. If I get executed today, maybe Prefuzek gets NK'd as the scum-team tie in won't work.

@NQT: Wrong answer.

Question: Why does EuchreJack die this night?
Answer: First, a true explanation of my habits thus far. I have been pretty specific on whom I think are scum: NQT, Tric, and prefuzek.  I have not wavered (much), and seem pretty determined those are the three.  If I am right on 2 or 3 of them, they kill me to shut me up.  I've made statements that set Tric off hard, and NQT keeps trying to tell everyone to ignore me.  They want to shut me up if scum. Because I'm so focused on them, if they are NOT scum, the actual scum can frame them by killing me.

Why NQT gave the WRONG answer: NQT used that exact tactic as scum in Dreams of Elan.  Jim heavily suspected me of being scum, and NQT framed me by NKing Jim.  Tric, Blue, KittyTac and myself eventually figured it out and lynched NQT.  I can understand Tric and Blue not seeing that play, they were not framed so its possible that it was not memorable for them.  But NQT was the one doing the framing, and it came close to working.  Ergo, NQT should have been able to recall that tactic.

UNVOTE

VOTE notquitethere

[EuchreJack]

The term is Gaslighting.  The fact that Blue on some level sympathizes with me, having from my understanding been a frequent victim of this tactic, gives Blue some town cred in my eyes.

Oh, and FOS remains on Jim actually, although having died quickly to the above tactic and not talking much, I'm still willing to consider a Town Jim universe.  I guess respond Jim if you care...

[notquitethere]

Because I'm so focused on them, if they are NOT scum, the actual scum can frame them by killing me.

Or, more simply, keep you alive and use you to lynch more town... You're smarter than this Euchre, think it through. You're in tunnel mode, twisting everything to fit a pattern you've decided upon. Step back a moment.

What reasons do you have for thinking Prefuzek is scum other than the fact I'm townreading them? When I flip town, are you going to go back to Tric... or?

The term is Gaslighting.

Jesus H, Jack I'm not gaslighting you. Disagreeing with you isn't trying to undermine your sanity, I'm trying to tell you that you're wrong about something that you genuinely are wrong about.