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[EuchreJack]

@Jim: Why do you think Tric is town? I'd really like to defer to your wisdom and experience, but the fact that the very second I suggested I have evidence linking him and prefuzek, he starts trying to get me lynched.  I mean, why should a town player want to do that?
And the insistence that I must reveal it NOW, IMMEDIATELY, sounds like desperate scum wanting to know where they screwed up so they can "talk it away".

Gut read: Tric is a mafia paladin.

Need to read NQT's post further, this was a my response to Jim's post.

[notquitethere]

Missed this:

Furthermore, he calls my incentive vote on webadict a 'push'. Does anyone else think I'm actually pushing webadict?

You're not pushing web. I was using language unclearly perhaps. My point was you voted web for reasons unstated, if it was for "incentive" (what does that mean here?) then you should have said at the time. I can't read your mind.

[notquitethere]

Web

Mmmmmmmmmm... prefuzek. Scumdar is pinging on them. I likely won'tget the evidence to string 'em, so that's why I'd shoot. I'd then shoot TricMagic, notquitethere, and then... Idk, BK? They haven't talked yet, but they are super sneaky scum.

What specifically was pinging you about prefuzek? It must have been something significant for you to return after hopping off of him.

Like I said initially, there's no way I'm getting a prefuzek elim Today. But that's okay because we'll be able to vote them out solely based on my word Tomorrow.

I don't like this. And why move over to Tric? You're just joining an easy wagon. Where's the rationale?

Blu

Anyhow, TricMagic  - Who do you think are scum, currently?

What do you think of Tric's replies?

[notquitethere]

Slowfire Reads

TOWN
Prefuzek - Has developed a number of reads and voted players for actual reasons
Jim - Has a couple of cases (Tric, Prefuzek) can explain his reasoning; pretty OK for d1.
Fallacy - is currently in tunnelmode but is actually thinking about a case and thinks he's got something, which is more than can be said for some players
EuchreJack - Veering wildly and incomprehensibly about. Overcompensatory play. Not really sure what to think. Probably not actually scum.
Tric - A bit hard to understand, but has shown attention to detail in pursuit of Jack case.
Toony - Still hasn't done anything yet. Some post-comp fatigue understandable, but literally all Toony has done is sheep Jim once and then complain when players town read him. Happy birthday btw!
Webadict - Has no real reason for his Prefuzek vote, which he flops off of to join a Tric wagon unexplainedly. Made a weird claim to fakeclaim mafia result on D2.
Bluarian - Had an OMGUS type vote on Jack (who admittedly wasn't making any sense) and then joined the Tric wagon for reasons unknown.
SCUM

[TricMagic]

Tric:

Don't drink and Mafia Jack, it makes you slip up. Can you see the chain of reasoning that brought you into this corner?

Why do you care if he sees it?

Now we start the bus...

You still haven't revealed this supposed link between us. And you really don't see it do you? What is the one thing in common my quotes of your posts have? It's not something that would reveal you to be town or scum, but it is a look into how I put you into a corner.

My apologies, I had overlooked that in all the many questions being asked (or at least it seemed like a lot at the time, I'm not looking back there).  The answer, of course, is that a single vote could NOT create a shortened day.  I was simply putting down one vote, one opinion.  Saying that I was willing to move on to day 2.  As I have said in the past, this was a stupid thing to do, since as I've seen, there is certainly some benefit to letting the day drag on and on and on and on in order to obtain valuable info.  For instance, I was only sorta sure you were scum at that time.  Now I'm absolutely sure.  Time to die Tric, and we'll have fun killing prefuzek tomorrow.  And then we'll hopefully be rid of your team, but if not, we'll find the other connections.  Time to die Tric.  Your scum game is improving, but you slipped up.

Objection!

You've slipped up Jack, gotten too eager to kill me. Did you even notice where I've been leading you all this time? Put simply, your willingness to kill me contradicts this key piece of evidence.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Regarding NQT: They have claimed some sort of Pro-Town Power role, so I'd strongly advise against lynching. Limited analysis below.

I'll claim on D3, which, yes, hopefully I'll survive to. Not holding my breath though. I spun the wheel on it and didn't get Bard so there's that.

For those following along at home, I picked Paladin when I played this game last: as a serial killer it was a no-brainer. I'm undecided whether it's a scummy pick per se. Having an inspect scroll as town is a potential game changer. Bit less neat if you get NK'd N1 for claiming paladin (but I'm sure Web knows what he's doing, I can think of at least three possibilities: less said the better).

BluarianKnight is it acceptable for town to pick Thief?

At this point, I read this as "I've got something that can really help Town!".  Which frankly is not something we can risk losing, since whatever great benefit NQT has will likely be replicated by Town's accumulation of items later on, but for Night 1 we can use all the benefits we can get.
...of course, its also what I would expect mafia Paladin to do.  That is certainly a risk, but overall the risk of Town essentially lynching a power roll is higher than the risk of mafia NQT living till day 2.

Does anyone have something to contradict this?

(you seem to have something to contradict it.)

At this point, I read this as "I've got something that can really help Town!".  Which frankly is not something we can risk losing, since whatever great benefit NQT has will likely be replicated by Town's accumulation of items later on, but for Night 1 we can use all the benefits we can get.

Put simply, by being willing to lynch me, your reasoning to risk a mafia NQT falls apart around you. The simple fact is, this is just an excuse. One you yourself just destroyed.

That being said, can you counter this now that you're sober? We had a good chain going before.

[TricMagic]

To note web, I don't trust you are town, but scum seeking long-term cred. Go for the obvious lynches, why not the ones that aren't as obvious? (Like NQT, who I'll get to after I am done with Jack.)

[BluarianKnight]

I'm back - I lost track of time last night. Lemme go over posts.

[FallacyofUrist]

Fallacy

Why would you ask this?

[1] It's a different setup than usual, always good to question received ways of doing things. As it happens, I think I'm inclined to agree, it's best for town to have the info from the D1 execution.

This reads-list is low effort.

Whose reads are half quickfire and half very much not quickfire.

No, I don't think those were snap judgements. You might say that they are, but there's too much effort put into some of them, in a lopsided manner.

[2] So they're low effort but also too much effort... make up your mind!

Whatsoever. In fact, the typical curve of 'most effort put into highest town reads, most effort put into highest scum reads, least effort put into null reads' is inverted...

This is a full reads list, at page 4. I don't buy it. I don't think it's justified. I don't think there's any point to it other than looking town.

[3] But Jack and Jim's reads lists before me were justified? I made some quick reads to try to get a handle on the state of the game. The effort wasn't inverted, I just explained my thoughts in a longer sentence for Euchre. [4] This is some high level nonsense you're inventing here.

[1]: Seems fair enough.

[2]: No, it's both. Instead of putting an even distribution of effort into each player, the level of effort you're putting in is minimal for some and disproportionately high for others. Minimal effort is... acceptable for pure Day 1 gut reads. But you're focused more on specific players that aren't even on the most important ends of the spectrum.

[3]: Following that, the longer sentence indicates more effort. Writing is effort. And yes, Jim's list was justified, I even made a whole post on why. Again, there's not necessarily something wrong with an earlier reads list, but yours tickled my funny bone.

The biggest question here is, why do Prefuzek and EuchreJack get the most effort when they're in the middle - the usually null area - of your list?

[4]: I dunno, it feels like you're focused a bit too much on discrediting me, based on your word choice.

Slowfire Reads

TOWN
Prefuzek - Has developed a number of reads and voted players for actual reasons
Jim - Has a couple of cases (Tric, Prefuzek) can explain his reasoning; pretty OK for d1.
Fallacy - is currently in tunnelmode but is actually thinking about a case and thinks he's got something, which is more than can be said for some players
EuchreJack - Veering wildly and incomprehensibly about. Overcompensatory play. Not really sure what to think. Probably not actually scum.
Tric - A bit hard to understand, but has shown attention to detail in pursuit of Jack case.
Toony - Still hasn't done anything yet. Some post-comp fatigue understandable, but literally all Toony has done is sheep Jim once and then complain when players town read him. Happy birthday btw!
Webadict - Has no real reason for his Prefuzek vote, which he flops off of to join a Tric wagon unexplainedly. Made a weird claim to fakeclaim mafia result on D2.
Bluarian - Had an OMGUS type vote on Jack (who admittedly wasn't making any sense) and then joined the Tric wagon for reasons unknown.
SCUM

This, I like more, since you're distributing effort evenly and everything has some level of justification.

Let's compare it to your old list.

Quickfire reads:

Town
Jim - putting some consideration in, I think this is town!Jim
Web - painted a big target on his head, so must have A Plan
Prefuzek - Fairly strong start, some insightful questions, coming out swinging. Push on Tric for claiming... this falls under the category of "norm policing" votes
EuchreJack - Weird spot between having clear knowledge of the game's rules and still making obvious mistakes--  nice and proactive, is fishing ever genuinely a scumtell? Is voting me partly because of belief I was pushing for a no lynch. Another "norm policing" vote.
Bluarian - Hasn't done anything yet, only post was just answering questions: still on the backfoot.
Tric - Hasn't done anything yet other than my vague threats, definite scumlean.
Fallacy - Push on web for "reasons", is the reason "has a scroll of inspect"?
Toony - Helpful and present in the thread... but no real push from them at all yet. Who's scum here, Toony?
Scum

Interestingly, there's a lot of differences here. Prefuzek gets moved up to #1, web gets booted down to #7...

But since Prefuzek had so much justification in the first reads list, I have to ask. Why wasn't Prefuzek your towniest pick in the Quickfire reads? You clearly had more justification for him than Jim.

[BluarianKnight]

Reads

You've got four players in the scummyish range. Among those which make sense as teams?

Euchre and Prez was my suspicion, with a possible Tric/Prez team. Toony and.. either Prez, or somebody else.

I'm probably going to revisit my list today.

Blu

Anyhow, TricMagic  - Who do you think are scum, currently?

What do you think of Tric's replies?

I think Tric's a little less scummy each post he makes - at first I thought it was him being coached, but.. honestly, he does have precedence of this sort of play as town.
My main suspicion is built off him playing way off his usual town!tells.. which, at the end of the day, is kind of shitty to do if he's improving, or trying not to get lynched for his play as town.

I'm going to UNVOTE him for now, because I'd like to dig through the thread for a solid base before hounding him, and if I can't find one.. he'll be pushed to null in my books.


I'm still suspicious of Prez - it's moreso a gut feeling, but his activity's been off to me.

Also;

Bluarian - Had an OMGUS type vote on Jack (who admittedly wasn't making any sense) and then joined the Tric wagon for reasons unknown.
SCUM

Jack's a new player - While he's still seeming super scummy, a lot of his actions to me tell me of a town!player still trying to figure out what they're doing - I did a lot of the same stupid mistakes in Supernatural 10. I don't want to vote a player just because he's learning, so I backed off.

As for Tric, his play felt super off to me - Far different, so I thought he was scum.

[webadict]

Webadict - Has no real reason for his Prefuzek vote, which he flops off of to join a Tric wagon unexplainedly. Made a weird claim to fakeclaim mafia result on D2.

Well that's just blatantly false. You've just tied together my initial gutread with my continued reason for voting prefuzek.

My inital gutread was based entirely on what I believed to be scummy behavior. It's intuition. It doesn't really need defense. But, if you somehow tied that to when I began to justify (post-vote) for why prefuzek would be a good vote, then you're kinda not paying attention.

web

The same thing it is every Day: Try to take over the world find the scum.

OK but you're not doing that. You're playing entitled.

Then vote me. I don't know why you're voting BluarianKnight and claiming their only echoing other player's points but you seem to be trying to pocket yourself in EuchreJack's wake and dogpiling on BluarianKnight for "attacking an obvious Town player," but that's a really bad argument, especially since I literally voted EuchreJack and explicitly stated that I didn't think they were scum. So, you'd have double the reason to vote me instead, yes?

However, my feeling is that you're trying to avoid voting me in an effort to not draw attention to yourself, which explains voting for BluarianKnight (bandwagon vote), pocketing, and buddying up to EuchreJack. You're also avoiding OMGUSing me, but I think that's because you're a little scared of going up against me because I effectively nailed you as scum on your first post and that's an entirely terrifying prospect to deal with.

Honestly, I'd suggest convincing me that I'm tunneling on you because your playstyle is unknown and therefore I'm unaware of your meta tells, but I don't think that covers for the fact that your arguments for voting BK feel fake and still require using a defense that isn't a feasible excuse since EuchreJack didn't effectively prove themselves Town until after the big post, unless you're saying another post effectively proved EuchreJack to be Town, but I don't feel like giving you the benefit of the doubt in that particular case.

Additionally, there's plenty of reason to suspect TricMagic, and the ties between the two indicate very real w/w equity, which you conveniently ignored. See, I thought you paid attention in this game, but silly me, maybe you rushed your analysis when I suggested that an elimination on you might be a good thing considering your lackluster performance up to this point.

Slowfire Reads

TOWN
Prefuzek - Has developed a number of reads and voted players for actual reasons
Jim - Has a couple of cases (Tric, Prefuzek) can explain his reasoning; pretty OK for d1.
Fallacy - is currently in tunnelmode but is actually thinking about a case and thinks he's got something, which is more than can be said for some players
EuchreJack - Veering wildly and incomprehensibly about. Overcompensatory play. Not really sure what to think. Probably not actually scum.
Tric - A bit hard to understand, but has shown attention to detail in pursuit of Jack case.
Toony - Still hasn't done anything yet. Some post-comp fatigue understandable, but literally all Toony has done is sheep Jim once and then complain when players town read him. Happy birthday btw!
Webadict - Has no real reason for his Prefuzek vote, which he flops off of to join a Tric wagon unexplainedly. Made a weird claim to fakeclaim mafia result on D2.
Bluarian - Had an OMGUS type vote on Jack (who admittedly wasn't making any sense) and then joined the Tric wagon for reasons unknown.
SCUM

Additionally, your reads are below average for what I expect from you. BluarianKnight? Seriously? From you? L.O.L. Your justification for the scummiest player is an OMGUS and a bandwagon, and not me, the person who literally threatened to lie about inspect results?

I also like that you're putting Toony in the scum-tier for doing the same shit you did. That seems a liiiiiittle project-y, don'tcha think?

Frankly, I don't believe this read list one bit. You feel like you're lying about that whole list.

notquitethere. So, I'll put my money where my mouth is.

[EuchreJack]

Euchre

Regarding NQT: They have claimed some sort of Pro-Town Power role, so I'd strongly advise against lynching.

notquitethere   We can't kill him yet even if we wanted to, because "might" be helpful

All town have potential pro-town powers. That's the whole idea with the items questing. I'm not claiming to be anything more extraordinary than anyone else. I have since claimed my item: anti-curse scroll. Limited use. Might have something better tomorrow. I shouldn't be launched today, but not for this reason.

@NQT: And what is the reason not to launch you?  You've been playing extremely defensively, and done little to find scum.  What use are you Town?
You're now my read as 3rd scummiest. FOS remains on you.

[EuchreJack]

Tric:

Don't drink and Mafia Jack, it makes you slip up. Can you see the chain of reasoning that brought you into this corner?

Why do you care if he sees it?

Now we start the bus...

You still haven't revealed this supposed link between us. And you really don't see it do you? What is the one thing in common my quotes of your posts have? It's not something that would reveal you to be town or scum, but it is a look into how I put you into a corner.

My apologies, I had overlooked that in all the many questions being asked (or at least it seemed like a lot at the time, I'm not looking back there).  The answer, of course, is that a single vote could NOT create a shortened day.  I was simply putting down one vote, one opinion.  Saying that I was willing to move on to day 2.  As I have said in the past, this was a stupid thing to do, since as I've seen, there is certainly some benefit to letting the day drag on and on and on and on in order to obtain valuable info.  For instance, I was only sorta sure you were scum at that time.  Now I'm absolutely sure.  Time to die Tric, and we'll have fun killing prefuzek tomorrow.  And then we'll hopefully be rid of your team, but if not, we'll find the other connections.  Time to die Tric.  Your scum game is improving, but you slipped up.

Objection!

You've slipped up Jack, gotten too eager to kill me. Did you even notice where I've been leading you all this time? Put simply, your willingness to kill me contradicts this key piece of evidence.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Regarding NQT: They have claimed some sort of Pro-Town Power role, so I'd strongly advise against lynching. Limited analysis below.

I'll claim on D3, which, yes, hopefully I'll survive to. Not holding my breath though. I spun the wheel on it and didn't get Bard so there's that.

For those following along at home, I picked Paladin when I played this game last: as a serial killer it was a no-brainer. I'm undecided whether it's a scummy pick per se. Having an inspect scroll as town is a potential game changer. Bit less neat if you get NK'd N1 for claiming paladin (but I'm sure Web knows what he's doing, I can think of at least three possibilities: less said the better).

BluarianKnight is it acceptable for town to pick Thief?

At this point, I read this as "I've got something that can really help Town!".  Which frankly is not something we can risk losing, since whatever great benefit NQT has will likely be replicated by Town's accumulation of items later on, but for Night 1 we can use all the benefits we can get.
...of course, its also what I would expect mafia Paladin to do.  That is certainly a risk, but overall the risk of Town essentially lynching a power roll is higher than the risk of mafia NQT living till day 2.

Does anyone have something to contradict this?

(you seem to have something to contradict it.)

At this point, I read this as "I've got something that can really help Town!".  Which frankly is not something we can risk losing, since whatever great benefit NQT has will likely be replicated by Town's accumulation of items later on, but for Night 1 we can use all the benefits we can get.

Put simply, by being willing to lynch me, your reasoning to risk a mafia NQT falls apart around you. The simple fact is, this is just an excuse. One you yourself just destroyed.

That being said, can you counter this now that you're sober? We had a good chain going before.

@Tric: I can't counter what I don't understand.  I think drinking would actually help me understand that better, or maybe you could get me some of that stuff you're obviously smoking.  Don't worry, my next post should "get the chain going again"...

[EuchreJack]

To note web, I don't trust you are town, but scum seeking long-term cred. Go for the obvious lynches, why not the ones that aren't as obvious? (Like NQT, who I'll get to after I am done with Jack.)

@Tric: Why not go after NQT now?  Am I really more dangerous to you than NQT?

[EuchreJack]

Tric and I

[webadict]

To note web, I don't trust you are town, but scum seeking long-term cred. Go for the obvious lynches, why not the ones that aren't as obvious? (Like NQT, who I'll get to after I am done with Jack.)

? I don't understand your issue. I don't really care if you think I'm town because I don't think you're Town.