Before the game started:
Do we get to know how many of each alignment exist?
Also, everyone should chose Paladin and lie about choosing Paladin. Except maybe Web if they want a handicap. 
While analysis of pre-game actions, before alignments are distributed, is probably a reach, I think it best to start at the beginning. Bad Joke, probably. Analysis is that this would make life miserable for everyone, since the role ability (the scroll) is useless because the class ability (Paladin) makes the role ability useless.
Overall, hurts Town in this tone. Would have been better to advise that this is the opposite of what Town should be doing.
I'm a Merchant. I say this so that players that inspect me as Town know I'm Town. Plus, my overall behavior should confirm that I'm merchanty.
Bard. The Bardiest Bard to ever Bard. I picked Random, so guess that is for balance reasons. Or just actually random.
Web, why scumlean me so early? Are you looking to stay in the shadows?
You should have been a merchant. You're a real star over at Risky Ventures. If I sheep you, will you borrow money from me? 
But seriously, want to tell us your two items? It's the only way to prove you're a bard.
First post after game started. Strategy: Start establishing to Town that I'm Town, so they can spend time hunting someone else. It has been an effective strategy in the past, so I decided to continue using it. Since Tric claimed to be a Bard, and Bard's only ability is two items at start, trying to accertain that Tric has two items NOW is the best way to establish his identity. Mafia would want to be Paladin and claim some other class, so this is an attempt to "lock in" that class in event that Tric is Mafia.
Problems: Talking to Tric about another forum game confuses everyone except possibly Tric.
Tric, to everyone else apparently, is so easy to read that this is pointless. Tric will out himself without any further effort on my part, whereas Town Tric could use those items to help Town. Probably more helpful if Town doesn't know what the items are.
FallacyofUrist: What class did you pick, and why?
Following the strategy of getting players to commit to a class NOW, so that Mafia can't be Paladin and claim some other class later. Point of Order - I've played Wolf once in One Night Ultimate Werewolf (probably, Web never did confirm that I "lost", so maybe I was Town). I successfully convinced town to vote someone else, even though I had two players accusing me, by picking the one-and-only role and action combination that could possibly be true. And I knew ToonyMan was lying, so I knew he couldn't prove I was wolf without lying further and looking even more scummy. So I know how vital it is to get confirmations of roles sooner rather than latter, because there may be one possible combination that is "believable". I only has that option because ToonyMan jumped the gun: Had he not lied when he did, I would have been forced to chose something without knowing all the evidence against me, and promptly lost upon the reveal. I think ToonyMan was bored, so he gave me that out for competiveness sake. I hope this look into Wolf Jack is of some use.
FallacyofUrist's response was to claim Archeologist. I am not sure how helpful this is, since the only way to confirm is with a scroll/want/etc that identifies a player's roll.
Euchrejack
But seriously, want to tell us your two items? It's the only way to prove you're a bard.
FallacyofUrist: What class did you pick, and why?
Toonyman: Did you pick Priest?
Super blatant rolefishing here. If you're town, why is this helpful for you to know right now?
FallacyofUrist: What class did you pick, and why?
Archeologist. I liked the idea of having a higher chance to find Artifacts.
But seriously, want to tell us your two items? It's the only way to prove you're a bard.
I'm sorry, but how does claiming what his items are prove he's a bard? This feels fishy. As in itemfishing-y. If you have reasoning, I'd love to hear it. Furthermore, how does proving he's a bard point to whether he's town or mafia?
So, to explain my thought process, players saying what role they have now helps prevent Mafia Paladins from pretending to be another class. Mafia Paladins want to claim something else that is semi-believable, knowing they'll inspect as Town. By forcing players to claim NOW, we can view player behavior in the future to determine if they are in fact their claimed class, or actually Paladins.
This is my explanation of the above strategy. This seems appropriate to me, although in retrospect, it may have been more helpful to town, and less scummy for me, to have explained my strategy, then ask players what was their class. In the event that a town player though it better for town to not know their class, they could then respond by just disagreeing with me, and later on Town could see if their having been quiet was helping Town or helping them.
BluarianKnight: Why aren't you posting? I need you to post to determine whether you are Town or Mafia. Don't make me vote you just to get your attention...
This is the beginning of my investigation of Blue. Why investigate Blue? First, I don't hold to the belief that you only investigate one person at a time on day one. I believe you should poke everyone a tiny bit and see what happens. Anything to get the discussion going. Second, I didn't think anyone else was investigating Blue, and everyone should get investigated, and I thought I could do it. I can't really succeed on my own to investigate the experienced players like ToonyMan or Web. Way above my talents.
Problems: Way too agressive at this stage. Turns are 72 hours, so there is time.
Web, why scumlean me so early? Are you looking to stay in the shadows?
Because you feel scummy, of course.
Webadict: What is your thoughts on every Town player that gets a Kill item basically going full-vigilante and killing as much as possible?
I'd do it. I'd shoot everyone. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else because you guys would shoot me first.
You... are townlean. Ish. Maybe null. Tough call.
Oh goody, another game in which I'm pocketed by Web. 
It worked out well the last two times when you were Town, would be catastrophic if you are Scum/Mafia. I'm reasonably sure the only reason you are pretending that I'm anything but 100% Town is to both hide the pocketing and push me further into your pocket. In a few posts you'll be like, "Oh, EuchreJack is totally Town, like 100%"
Anyone know if we can trade/give items without using them. For example, I got a Scroll of Curse Armor. It basically means its more likely that a kill will "stick". Look up the item if you want a clearer explanation. As a merchant, I can discard it for a 33% chance of getting another Common item. Can I give/trade it to another player without using it on that player? It's the sort of thing best used in conjunction with an actual killing item, to greater guarantee the kill or negate the armor before the kill. Coordinating who gets targeted in the open by two confirmed town players seems less optimal than two confirmed town players just pooling their resources onto one player that makes the final decision.
My lame attempt to at least get someone else to investigate Web. Also trying to show that I'm not a complete idiot as Web is clearly pocketing me.
Maybe a direct attack at the attempt would have been better? I'm not sure the pro/con analysis of this one.
Asking questions about game mechanics and discussing strategy is generally a good thing, so the remainder of the post is good. More people should do that, honestly. I think Scum can ask the GM about game mechanics in Scum chat, although I'm not sure. Which is why it is doubly important the Town ask lots of game mechanic questions, especially in these flavorful games. Discussing strategy for Town has to be done in the thread, so it a good thing. While Mafia is also involved in strategy discussions, they're outnumbered.
Hello everyone. I'm pleased to be back in a Roguelike again, and pleased also that I'm not a mad serial killer this time.
D3 players will have had two chances of questing, so it's likely there'll be one or two powerful Rares or Artefacts floating around. If this proceeds like a normal game death-wise, we'll be down to four players and it'll look like LYLO, but given player items it might not be. What am I missing?
Fallacy, should we no-lynch today?
Jim, I love the random item aspect of this format. And the class choosing is similar to CYOM. The big similarity is we have an additional piece of scum hunting info in this game: players pick their class after they get their alignment and this might in itself be informative.
Is someone picking paladin automatically suspicious?
Notquitethere, you remind me of the Nightmare.
Suggesting a no-lynch - BAD
Strangely specific denial: "pleased also that I'm not a mad serial killer", implying that there is no way you could be scum twice in a row - BAD
Discouraging Paladin claims, thereby helping scum: "Is someone picking paladin automatically suspicious", Implying that Paladins should NOT claim immediately - BAD
My gut is telling me that Paladin claims now are vital to Town, but I need to do further research on exactly why. Probably comes down to some scroll determining roll, and that only scum would want to hide their Paladin class as long as possible.
And Paladin IS NOT cop, since all Paladins should give their Scroll of Inspection to a trusted Town player to avoid a Nightkill, and NOT say to whom they are giving the Scroll of Inspection. Assuming, this is possible. Also assuming "Inspection" means "to identify the alignment of a player". The sparse item dictionary doesn't say what it does, and the Cop roll on MafiaWiki uses the term Investigate for Cops.
At this point, NQT had posted. NQT's post looked scummy to me, but I needed more posting from NQT to be sure, so I started a more in-depth investigation of NQT.
Pro: This seemed to help Town further investigate NQT. Also, as indicated I had a gut instinct that Paladin claims now were ideal for Town, but I didn't know WHY. By asking, I was able to get advice from other players on this. I think strategy of Paladins claiming now is a good one.
Con: Should have waited for clarification about how items work before suggesting advice on them. Bad information hurts Town.
And Paladin IS NOT cop, since all Paladins should give their Scroll of Inspection to a trusted Town player to avoid a Nightkill, and NOT say to whom they are giving the Scroll of Inspection. Assuming, this is possible. Also assuming "Inspection" means "to identify the alignment of a player". The sparse item dictionary doesn't say what it does, and the Cop roll on MafiaWiki uses the term Investigate for Cops.
Just wanted to clarify that I didn't read deep enough, I was reading the "Order of Operation" and thought it was supposed to define Inspection there.
Scroll of Inspection You are informed of the target's alignment. Possible results are Town, Mafia, and Third Party.
Well, if I had done a better job reading, and though more before posting, I could have avoided this entirely. Bad EJ. Try harder.
Toonyman: "Scroll of Shapeshift: Target inspects as an alignment of your choice tonight. You may choose Town, Mafia, or Third Party."
Looking over the various scrolls, I came across that one. Any good Town uses for it? Seems a "mostly scum" scroll to me.
I mean, it could be used for a crazy unhelpful town gambit, hence my qualify it is Good Town play.
Asking advice: Again always good. Engaging others in conversation I think is also good, as more information helps Town.
Jim Groovester: What are your reads?
Strategy: I figured that I knew the difference between Town Jim and Scum Jim, and this question would get me everything that I needed to determine that. It worked.
FOS Blue
Blue's post looked extremely scummy to me, but Blue as scum (and as town) tends to get scared and not post if confronted too strongly. Hence the minor poke to try to get a reaction and more posting. I needed more to convince Town.
"EuchreJack is committing scumhunting faux pas all over the place"
Hey now, not everyone got to learn mafia correctly and properly like you wamby pampily veterans. So far, this random mess is the closest I've gotten to playing real mafia. Part of me would really appreciate being told how to "properly" play the game, rather than getting insulted all the time.
That said, you're an ass, but that fits into our Town meta. Your whole post was what I'd expect from Town Jim, so thanks for answering. I do like your summaries, even if they're somewhat outdated. Provides a nice analysis of very basic things people should know.
Reads:
EuchreJack - Town
Jim Groovester - Town
Webadict - slightly Town
Toonyman - slightly Town
FallacyofUrist - slightly Town
prefuzek - Null, since I've got so little meta to work with, and nothing has set me off so far
TricMagic - Null, hasn't posted enough for me to read yet
BluearianKnight - Scum
Notquitethere - Scum
Of course, this is all tentative. I almost gave Webadict, Toonyman, FallacyofUrist null labels "to keep the pressure on", but I figured Town needed to know that I thought they seemed town even if they need further scrutiny. Hence this disclaimer.
Reads are good, asking for advice is good, telling town that 3 players look to me slightly townish but they should be throughly investigated was good. Putting more pressure on Blue.
See the Paladin claim is a gambit that scum can easily pull. In fact, I was expecting at least one. But maybe the scum didn't want to put a target on themselves. I am willing to bet that scum probably did pick (at least one) Paladin and have now hid that fact, but I also don't necessarily believe more than 1 did.
My theory is that Scum would pick one Paladin and one other roll (and one other roll if there are more than two), unless they were unable to consult prior to picking classes.
I mean, why put two Godfathers on a team, when they could have a Godfather and a Bulletproof/Strongman/Doctor/whatever?
PPE: Technically yes, but why do you necessarily even believe me? Why does anyone believe me?
I don't.
QUESTION FOR EVERYONE ELSE: Respond to Web's question please!
Discussion of strategy benefits town. I thought Web had a really good question, and I sincerely wanted everyone else to answer it. Lazy Jack, should have gone and individually asked people, just left Web to work on it, or ask someone later on why they didn't answer this question. Too meddlesome, I guess?
Best practice in the future would to just answer the damn question and move on.
UNVOTE
At this point, I had felt that NQT was more Town leaning, so I didn't want to vote them anymore. But I wasn't quite ready to put full pressure on Blue, in case Blue just flaked out and failed to give me the info I needed to push for a Lynch.
No problems with unvoting someone that I don't believe is scum.
SHORTEN
Ah, mistake number one, the mistake I will be spending the rest of the game explaining. I do not want to explain this repeatedly. Seriously, I do not. I fucked up HARD. I mean, really really hard.
My thinking, in error, was that everyone was going to Lynch Tric and there was no major benefit for drawing out the voting. I didn't know either way on Tric, but since we have no info on day 1, why draw out the useless early time? I really would like to get to the point where we have evidence to work with. Oh well, I guess if I want to win, I have to roll up my sleeves and do the work. I'll try to be nice as I explain this mistake 1000 different times. It is going to piss me off, but it is the work that I have to do to win.
The later mistakes have a lot to do with timing. At this stage, my strategy was to Unvote NQT, Shorten on Tric for the above stupid awful reason, and Vote Blue. Since my vote of Blue without anything more would likely scare off Blue into not giving me any evidence to get other people to vote Blue, I needed some excuse for why I was doing it. My orignal plan was to make some excuse that I was only voting Blue so that people wouldn't accuse me of Sheeping Web. Yeah, people would have bought that, and I could get more info on Blue.
Personally I want Web around for N1 to see what happens.
That almost sounds you're trying to goad Web into killing you. +1 Town point for your meta!
Then again, if Web is Paladin and you're mafia Paladin, it's goading for an inspect that you know you'll pass. +1 scum point
Sorry ToonyMan, it's a wash.
A filler post, I think, to make the above strategy less obvious to Blue. Plus I did review ToonyMan's post in the interim and had that sort of idea. Not sure exactly.
SHORTEN
Techincally a shorten vote is Bold (and on its own line so I see it) instead of Red. Is this a serious shorten request or are you just testing the system? I don't have an automated vote counter.
Actual request, sorry I didn't understand the system.
SHORTEN
As I was writing this, I was having second thoughts. Should have listened to them, but you know how sometimes you've got your mind up to do something and you just do it? Really should listen to those second thoughts. I could see a post, but it looked like prefuzek was quoting Tric. I could not tell, in the posting interface, that it was Tric posting.
CON CON CON, this is hurting Town bad. Part of what I will be explaining throughout the rest of the game.
TricMagic:
Bard. The Bardiest Bard to ever Bard. I picked Random, so guess that is for balance reasons. Or just actually random.
Why claim this now? Seems to me that Webadict was just asking for Paladin claims.
Web, why scumlean me so early? Are you looking to stay in the shadows?
Pretty jumpy there, aren't you? How would this help Web stay in the shadows?
Web can't be inspected.(unless he's lying about his role again.) As a paladin, he's up on hit list for mafia if he is telling the truth. If he isn't dead by day three though he's probably mafia if he doesn't find scum. The only case this isn't the case is if someone protected him from kills.
I claimed Bard and Random Choice because of the fact random does mean that things will be either picked for balance, or actually random.
I'll claim on D3, which, yes, hopefully I'll survive to. Not holding my breath though. I spun the wheel on it and didn't get Bard so there's that.
The more Randoms there are, the more likely those roles don't exist for others. Then again, it could be actually random. But telling town I'm a Bard doesn't tell you what items I have on me. For all you know I could be able to kill someone, or I could be able to protect someone. So there really isn't much of a loss to revealing it this early, scum still doesn't know what I can do, so they have to decide between killing me, or web. But I tend to make for an easy lynch target, until I don't and turn things around on them.
Ugh, my head hurts. I didn't know it was Tric posting. Welcome to team Town, Tric.
Sorry Toaster, but:
UNSHORTEN
Double sorry if shorten votes can't be withdrawn.
At this point, I realize I had fucked up hard because I finally read Tric's post and used the formula of IF Tric Makes NO Sense THEN Tric = TOWN. So this was my now knowing that I both needed to get the Town NOT to vote Tric AND give the Town more time to both not vote Tric AND vote somebody else. I started my first step on the grand apology tour that I'm going to be on for the entire game.
I think, overall, this post was a best as it could be considering how badly I had fucked up.
Euchrejack, why do you want to shorten when the vote is tied and you're not voting?
Good point! I'll vote BluarianKnight
At this point, I completed the plan of Voting Blue in such a way as to avoid scaring Blue into not posting. I should point out that I was not purely trying to prove Blue was scum. I was reasonally sure Blue was scum, but in the slim hope that Blue was not scum, I wanted to get that evidence as well. prefuzek gave me the PERFECT excuse to vote Blue for the strategy, so I used it.
My rational for shortening was that the bandwagon seemed to be forming on Tric, people were sure it was Tric, so why not move on to Day 2 when we've got actual information. Impatience probably.
But then Tric posted nonsense and I figured it was Town Tric. I'm not quite as good at reading Tric as others, but I'm trying. I got ninja'd by Tric's post, which I said I couldn't even tell came from Tric. So now I really, really, really don't want the shorten, since I'm thinking Tric is town and we're going towards a mislynch.
I'm heading out for a bit, but I'd suggest starting to hunt those who keep voting Tric. They should have good reasons, including my misreading of Tric.
Strategy for this post was to try and get people NOT to vote Tric, and get some scumhunting going by suggesting that people investigate those voting Tric. To me, voting Tric at this juncture was a tactic that Scum would try. Get the town to lynch the lunatic instead of one of them. I did not have the time to follow up on this myself.
Problem: I should stop telling other people to do things. That really does piss everyone off. Either do the work, or shut up. Maybe point out when others are clearly ducking their scumhunting duties if that shows them to be scum.
Also a rushed attempt to further explain my mistake. Just an FYI, I do work for a living. I have plans, schedules, things to do. I'm sure everyone else does as well. I was checking on the way out the door. I guess checking the thread when I really don't have time to really play is a mistake as well. Either work or don't work, there is no try.
Euchrejack, why do you want to shorten when the vote is tied and you're not voting?
Good point! I'll vote BluarianKnight
wtf are you doing?
Imitating you? 
I wanted Web to start investigating Blue, but not in a way that would tip Blue off that they were being investigated. I'm not Web, so I can't say if it worked. I intentionally picked 5 winks so it would look silly. 3 would look serious.
My rational for shortening was that the bandwagon seemed to be forming on Tric, people were sure it was Tric, so why not move on to Day 2 when we've got actual information. Impatience probably.
But then Tric posted nonsense and I figured it was Town Tric. I'm not quite as good at reading Tric as others, but I'm trying. I got ninja'd by Tric's post, which I said I couldn't even tell came from Tric. So now I really, really, really don't want the shorten, since I'm thinking Tric is town and we're going towards a mislynch.
I'm heading out for a bit, but I'd suggest starting to hunt those who keep voting Tric. They should have good reasons, including my misreading of Tric.
Should I repeat this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over?
Sure, bring it up again on Day 2, but new questions please?
Now, why vote Blue?
BluearianKnight, Vector isn't in the game yet so are you scum? If Vector replaces into the game will you become scum?
I'm not scum.
Just because Vector isn't in the game doesn't change whether or not I'm scum or not as well - so, why did you ask me this?
BluarianKnight is it acceptable for town to pick Thief?
I think so?
While it does have a rather anti-town vibe, I think it could be used to great advantage - we only have one lynch per day, after all. So a town!Thief could be an additional pressure against known mafia players - or be used to check players who are lying about inventories or not.
I wouldn't lynch a Thief just for picking them. It would make me more suspicious of them, sure, but it's not a pure mafia!tell for me.
BluarianKnight: Why aren't you posting? I need you to post to determine whether you are Town or Mafia. Don't make me vote you just to get your attention...
I was busy, and this took a while to start. I'll get into the hang of things tomorrow.
Blue: "I'm not scum, please oh please don't lynch me" AKA The Scum Theme Song
Also, no scum hunting.
I was paying coy, because I wanted to see if Blue was busy Townie or lurking Scum. Since Blue is now engaged in the thread, I don't have to play coy any longer.
Time will tell whether the current scumhunting by Blue is smokescreen or legit. Pretty quick to jump on bandwagons and only offend those directly confronting them...
Two parts that should have been seperated.
Part 1: I was getting fustrated at the reality that I was going to be explaining the exact same thing 1000 times during the game. That sounds like work, not fun. My aggrevation made me look extremely scummy. EXTREME CON
Part 2: Blue had finally posted! Joy at finding scum. I make my case for why Blue is scum. I thought I still had some Town Cred, so this all that I would need. I was hoping for blue to post a bit more, but I was basically convinced Blue was scum. Draw town's attention to blue, and maybe get Blue to post further.
Problem: I jumped the gun. Oh boy did I jump the gun. I should have 1) realized my Town cred was in the toilet and really worked on it 2) Poked and Proded Blue, or "engage" as I call it, rather than jump to the stage of trying to convince everyone else that Blue is scum. Too dismissive and slandering on blue.
@Web: I'll vote who I think is scum, and if you gotta vote me, then I'm not afraid to die. I will however start looking for other suspects. I comment you for trying to pocket two players who are voting each other. Interested to see how that turns out.
Strategy: Build up Town cred by proving that I was not afraid to be lynched, as being lynched does not mean a loss for me. Call out Web on trying to pocket both myself and Blue, while seeing if this might just cause Web to do something that could be used against them if scum. Trying to pocket two opposing player actually seems pretty scummy, as it seems like something a mafia player would do to protect one of their own, hence the comment.
I'm going to call this a pro, as it should eventually help Town determine whether or not Web is Town or mafia. I think it is going to help my analysis long-term.
Additionally, I think, had I changed my vote as Web has said, that would be ultra-scummy.
Even though Web gave me this homework assignment, I still think I made the right call in not changing my vote.
However, "I will however start looking for other suspects." I had in fact not overly scrutinized other players, as you see above. So this was sort of my indicating that I was willing to at least do that. Probably made me look scummy, since I was apparently trying to placate rather than hunt. I think I should have omitted this line.
@Web: I'll vote who I think is scum, and if you gotta vote me, then I'm not afraid to die. I will however start looking for other suspects. I comment you for trying to pocket two players who are voting each other. Interested to see how that turns out.
EuchreJack.
Town players can suspect each other all day long. It doesn't make them not Town. Heck, I'm voting you, and I don't think you're scum. But, the problem here is that you're actively making the game harder by doing shenanigans.
I know it's hard to understand why my shenanigans are different. But, if you'd please, list out what my shenanigans were this game and how they contributed to the current gamestate, and then do the same for yours. I want you to list how useful they've been, and the pros and cons of said actions were.
I don't actually mind shenanigans, but some of yours have no intended purpose behind them, and lulnanigans are sorta anti-Town.
So is Jack confirmed town now? Pretty sure their partner would be yelling at them in scum chat at this point.
I mean, very likely. But, I need Jack to understand that their actions have to have purpose or else it diverts the town's resources to scrutinizing your actions. The only two people that wouldn't be yelling at them are you and I.
Honestly, I'm not experienced enough to see your shenanigans and analyze them, so I can't promise that I will be able to do that. However, I am in the process of reviewing all of my actions so far and posting analysis. This post is to say that I am working on it. It will take some time. My apologies for the inconvenience.
I was just handed a huge assignment. I figure, I need the town cred. If somebody actually reads this and starts to see a case against Blue, all the better.
Analyzing a suspected mafia player to see how they might be helping town? Hm, not sure that is a great thing to do for town. It is a huge assignment, so I might do something like this for Web. Seriously don't want to, both because how can I analyze strategies that I don't know. But I need the practice in scumhunting, this should make me better, and I'm sure others will "correct my homework". I don't want to promise anything I won't do, but am considering. I also realize this is a lot of work, and need people to know that it will take a while.
As I continue my commentary of all my actions, I just want to remind everyone that I requested to UNSHORTEN immediately after I made the correct, official request to SHORTEN. Now I'll shut up and get back to work.
At this point, I was working on this document, and needed to make an "Official" position on it. I also realize that at mafia is going to muddy the waters on this, to make me look worse and deflect from their own evil deeds. One clear post, seperate and distinct from everything else. Should help me scumhunt, as those who want to pretend something else happened may be trying to hide themselves. Or just be overeager and confused Town, so I had best not lose my patience.
My apologies for not doing this exactly as Web wanted. Maybe this will be a basis for my own further analysis.
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Topic: Roguelike Mafia 7 - The Fall [Game over] (Read 50704 times)