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[EuchreJack]

BluarianKnight: Why aren't you posting?  I need you to post to determine whether you are Town or Mafia.  Don't make me vote you just to get your attention...

[EuchreJack]

Web, why scumlean me so early? Are you looking to stay in the shadows?

Because you feel scummy, of course.

Webadict: What is your thoughts on every Town player that gets a Kill item basically going full-vigilante and killing as much as possible?

I'd do it. I'd shoot everyone. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else because you guys would shoot me first.

You... are townlean. Ish. Maybe null. Tough call.

Oh goody, another game in which I'm pocketed by Web. 
It worked out well the last two times when you were Town, would be catastrophic if you are Scum/Mafia.  I'm reasonably sure the only reason you are pretending that I'm anything but 100% Town is to both hide the pocketing and push me further into your pocket.  In a few posts you'll be like, "Oh, EuchreJack is totally Town, like 100%"

Anyone know if we can trade/give items without using them.  For example, I got a Scroll of Curse Armor.  It basically means its more likely that a kill will "stick".  Look up the item if you want a clearer explanation.  As a merchant, I can discard it for a 33% chance of getting another Common item.  Can I give/trade it to another player without using it on that player?  It's the sort of thing best used in conjunction with an actual killing item, to greater guarantee the kill or negate the armor before the kill.  Coordinating who gets targeted in the open by two confirmed town players seems less optimal than two confirmed town players just pooling their resources onto one player that makes the final decision.

[ToonyMan]

I'm pretty sure Jack isn't lying about their Class at least, and their earnestness makes me think they're town. Jack would have to be spinning lie after lie unless they're just honestly telling us everything about themselves, which doesn't strike me as very advantageous for mafia!Jack.

Unless they're actually just mafia with Web, but I don't think that's the case currently.

[ToonyMan]

Toonyman: Did you pick Priest?

No. And just to be clear, I'm not a Paladin either. I was joking earlier with Web.

Scumpoints for going back on your word.

I don't want there to be a misunderstanding down the line. I think actual Paladins should claim now if they want to be believed later.

[EuchreJack]

Hello everyone. I'm pleased to be back in a Roguelike again, and pleased also that I'm not a mad serial killer this time.

D3 players will have had two chances of questing, so it's likely there'll be one or two powerful Rares or Artefacts floating around. If this proceeds like a normal game death-wise, we'll be down to four players and it'll look like LYLO, but given player items it might not be. What am I missing?

Fallacy, should we no-lynch today?

Jim, I love the random item aspect of this format. And the class choosing is similar to CYOM. The big similarity is we have an additional piece of scum hunting info in this game: players pick their class after they get their alignment and this might in itself be informative.

Is someone picking paladin automatically suspicious?

Notquitethere, you remind me of the Nightmare. 
Suggesting a no-lynch - BAD
Strangely specific denial: "pleased also that I'm not a mad serial killer", implying that there is no way you could be scum twice in a row - BAD
Discouraging Paladin claims, thereby helping scum: "Is someone picking paladin automatically suspicious", Implying that Paladins should NOT claim immediately - BAD

My gut is telling me that Paladin claims now are vital to Town, but I need to do further research on exactly why.  Probably comes down to some scroll determining roll, and that only scum would want to hide their Paladin class as long as possible.

And Paladin IS NOT cop, since all Paladins should give their Scroll of Inspection to a trusted Town player to avoid a Nightkill, and NOT say to whom they are giving the Scroll of Inspection.  Assuming, this is possible.  Also assuming "Inspection" means "to identify the alignment of a player".  The sparse item dictionary doesn't say what it does, and the Cop roll on MafiaWiki uses the term Investigate for Cops.

[EuchreJack]

And Paladin IS NOT cop, since all Paladins should give their Scroll of Inspection to a trusted Town player to avoid a Nightkill, and NOT say to whom they are giving the Scroll of Inspection.  Assuming, this is possible.  Also assuming "Inspection" means "to identify the alignment of a player".  The sparse item dictionary doesn't say what it does, and the Cop roll on MafiaWiki uses the term Investigate for Cops.

Just wanted to clarify that I didn't read deep enough, I was reading the "Order of Operation" and thought it was supposed to define Inspection there.
Scroll of Inspection   You are informed of the target's alignment. Possible results are Town, Mafia, and Third Party.

[EuchreJack]

Toonyman: "Scroll of Shapeshift: Target inspects as an alignment of your choice tonight.  You may choose Town, Mafia, or Third Party."
Looking over the various scrolls, I came across that one.  Any good Town uses for it?  Seems a "mostly scum" scroll to me.
I mean, it could be used for a crazy unhelpful town gambit, hence my qualify it is Good Town play.

[ToonyMan]

7. Currently, there is no sharing or trading of items, even among mafia teams.

It's in the rules, Jack.

The inspect scrolls are nice, but it's also important to know which players are saying they'll (normally) always come up town.

If only one Paladin claims then that's fine too since we have a lot of town with items tonight *wink wink*. I agree with Jim that this is likely a 2 scum setup so.

Toonyman: "Scroll of Shapeshift: Target inspects as an alignment of your choice tonight.  You may choose Town, Mafia, or Third Party."
Looking over the various scrolls, I came across that one.  Any good Town uses for it?  Seems a "mostly scum" scroll to me.
I mean, it could be used for a crazy unhelpful town gambit, hence my qualify it is Good Town play.

Only scum would use that scroll. A player with that item isn't necessarily scum though.

[EuchreJack]

Jim Groovester: What are your reads?

[BluarianKnight]

BluearianKnight, Vector isn't in the game yet so are you scum? If Vector replaces into the game will you become scum?

I'm not scum.

Just because Vector isn't in the game doesn't change whether or not I'm scum or not as well - so, why did you ask me this?

BluarianKnight is it acceptable for town to pick Thief?

I think so?
While it does have a rather anti-town vibe, I think it could be used to great advantage - we only have one lynch per day, after all. So a town!Thief could be an additional pressure against known mafia players - or be used to check players who are lying about inventories or not.

I wouldn't lynch a Thief just for picking them. It would make me more suspicious of them, sure, but it's not a pure mafia!tell for me.

BluarianKnight: Why aren't you posting?  I need you to post to determine whether you are Town or Mafia.  Don't make me vote you just to get your attention...

I was busy, and this took a while to start. I'll get into the hang of things tomorrow.

[EuchreJack]

FOS Blue

[Jim Groovester]

Re: Paladins: Claiming paladin seems like a great way to dodge inspections especially if you're mafia and not actually a paladin.

If there end up being a lot of Paladin claims it might be worth verifying that a couple of them actually inspect town like they're supposed to. I think we've heard from everybody and only have one paladin claim, however.

Question you, why did you pick Paladin? We all know you'll be dead by day 3.

Didn't really pay too close attention when I made my first post but this caught my eye. I reread some games recently where I make mention of the 'webadict alive by Day 3 rule' as a metric for whether he's scum or not and this post reminded me of it.

How are you so certain that webadict will be dead by Day 3?

ToonyMan, webadict, if I did nothing and let you do the heavy lifting would I still win the game?

I feel you leaning Town, and since I believe Toony is Town, then yes, because I am also Town.

Awesome.

See you guys later, I'll be back in time to claim victory.

But seriously, want to tell us your two items?  It's the only way to prove you're a bard.

People have already poked you for your blatant role fishing.

I don't really care about the role fishing so much but items seems to be of slightly more significance than roles so fishing for items concerns me slightly more.

So, to explain my thought process, players saying what role they have now helps prevent Mafia Paladins from pretending to be another class.  Mafia Paladins want to claim something else that is semi-believable, knowing they'll inspect as Town.  By forcing players to claim NOW, we can view player behavior in the future to determine if they are in fact their claimed class, or actually Paladins.

I don't follow your explanation for why you would need to know TricMagic's items.

Everyone else: Get the joke?

No.

Jim Groovester: Do you think Web and Toonyman will figure out the format in such a way as to win by the end of the first day?

They might figure out the game by the end of Day 1 but if there aren't enough available resources in the town to eliminate all the threats to the town then it's impossible to win by the end of Day 1.

I'm not even sure Day kills are possible in this game.

You... are townlean. Ish. Maybe null. Tough call.

Wait, web, why do you always make reads so early?

Why not?

Day 1 gut feel reads can be accurate and sometimes even more so than the more 'developed' reads later in the game.

BluearianKnight, Vector isn't in the game yet so are you scum? If Vector replaces into the game will you become scum?

... what even is this question, buddy. Seriously, I'd like an explanation.

BluearianKnight, Vector isn't in the game yet so are you scum? If Vector replaces into the game will you become scum?

I'm not scum.

Just because Vector isn't in the game doesn't change whether or not I'm scum or not as well - so, why did you ask me this?

Because Vector and BluearianKnight were scum in Revolutions and Gnosia, two games which also featured webadict and ToonyMan putting the rest of the town in a car and taking a road trip to victory.

But Vector isn't a player in this game (but is on the replacement list!) so I couldn't ask the question I wanted to ask. Mostly, is this game going to be a repeat of recent games or not.

I think so?

Such confidence.

Jim Groovester: What are your reads?

FallacyofUrist - townish
EuchreJack - consistent with his goofball town meta
webadict - webadictish i.e. null
ToonyMan - slightly weaker ToonyManish
prefuzek - null
notquitethere - null
BluearianKnight - null
TricMagic - feels quieter?

TricMagic feels off, like he should be noisier so if I had to shoot somebody right now it would be TricMagic. FallacyofUrist feels like he's playing to his town meta, or at least, it doesn't feel like scum FallacyofUrist since scum FallacyofUrist makes a conscious effort to make shows about how town he is. EuchreJack is committing scumhunting faux pas all over the place but that's in keeping with his town meta.

webadict is consistent with webadict, which tells me nothing since I can't read him. ToonyMan feels like a slightly weaker presence than I'm used to but maybe that's just from watching him in the championship game. (I think ToonyMan played great in the championship game so me saying "hmm you know he feels a bit weaker than normal" feels like an unnecessarily jackass thing to say about him.) Everyone else I don't have enough of a read to make an opinion about.

Those are mine. What about yours, EuchreJack?

Let's go with TricMagic.

Anyways I'm going to start throwing beers back but I'll also be around to answer questions and stuff since drunk mafia is surprisingly entertaining to play.

[EuchreJack]

"EuchreJack is committing scumhunting faux pas all over the place"

Hey now, not everyone got to learn mafia correctly and properly like you wamby pampily veterans.  So far, this random mess is the closest I've gotten to playing real mafia.  Part of me would really appreciate being told how to "properly" play the game, rather than getting insulted all the time.

That said, you're an ass, but that fits into our Town meta.  Your whole post was what I'd expect from Town Jim, so thanks for answering.  I do like your summaries, even if they're somewhat outdated.  Provides a nice analysis of very basic things people should know.

Reads:
EuchreJack - Town
Jim Groovester - Town
Webadict - slightly Town
Toonyman - slightly Town
FallacyofUrist  - slightly Town
prefuzek - Null, since I've got so little meta to work with, and nothing has set me off so far
TricMagic - Null, hasn't posted enough for me to read yet
BluearianKnight - Scum
Notquitethere - Scum

Of course, this is all tentative.  I almost gave Webadict, Toonyman, FallacyofUrist null labels "to keep the pressure on", but I figured Town needed to know that I thought they seemed town even if they need further scrutiny.  Hence this disclaimer.

[Jim Groovester]

"EuchreJack is committing scumhunting faux pas all over the place"

Hey now, not everyone got to learn mafia correctly and properly like you wamby pampily veterans.  So far, this random mess is the closest I've gotten to playing real mafia.  Part of me would really appreciate being told how to "properly" play the game, rather than getting insulted all the time.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

SINK OR SWIM

FIGHT OR FLIGHT

DO OR DIE

IF YOU WIN YOU LIVE IF YOU LOSE YOU DIE YOU CANT WIN IF YOU DONT FIGHT TATAKAE TATAKAE

YOU THINK WE KNEW HAD ANYBODY TO TEACH US HOW TO PLAY MAFIA FROM THE START THINK AGAIN PAL WE HAD TO FIGURE IT OUT ALL FOR OURSELVES

YOU THINK WE RUN BEGINNERS MAFIAS TO TEACH NEW PLAYERS HOW WE PLAY ANYMORE THINK AGAIN PAL

THINK EUCHREJACK THINK

That said, you're an ass,

TRUEST THING YOU'VE SAID ALL DAY PAL

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Honestly just look at how 4maskwolf, ToonyMan, or webadict play and emulate them. A clumsy scumhunt can be forgiven if it's apparent that you're genuinely scumhunting, but ideally you would want to drop the 'clumsy' part as soon as possible.

[notquitethere]

EuchreJack

notquitethere How do I play this game?  Seriously, I have no idea, and the intro text is...unhelpful.

For the most part, it's a normal mafia game: use the day game to find scum. Every day you'll get a random object from a quest (unless you raid the central reserve of items instead). These items give you new abilities to use at night.

all Paladins should give their Scroll of Inspection to a trusted Town player to avoid a Nightkill, and NOT say to whom they are giving the Scroll of Inspection. 

You can't give items to other players, read the OP.

Also, to address the points worth addressing:
- I wasn't suggesting a no lynch, I was seeing what Fallacy thought of the idea.
- Paladins are like cops, usually you don't want the cops claiming D1!

prefuzek

Notquitethere: How do you tell the difference between scum and bad town?

Sometimes they do look very similar, but scum have additional tells in how they interact with their buddies, they inspect differently, and use their abilities differently too. Scum have an agenda, bad town don't.


Quickfire reads:

Town
Jim - putting some consideration in, I think this is town!Jim
Web - painted a big target on his head, so must have A Plan
Prefuzek - Fairly strong start, some insightful questions, coming out swinging. Push on Tric for claiming... this falls under the category of "norm policing" votes
EuchreJack - Weird spot between having clear knowledge of the game's rules and still making obvious mistakes--  nice and proactive, is fishing ever genuinely a scumtell? Is voting me partly because of belief I was pushing for a no lynch. Another "norm policing" vote.
Bluarian - Hasn't done anything yet, only post was just answering questions: still on the backfoot.
Tric - Hasn't done anything yet other than my vague threats, definite scumlean.
Fallacy - Push on web for "reasons", is the reason "has a scroll of inspect"?
Toony - Helpful and present in the thread... but no real push from them at all yet. Who's scum here, Toony?
Scum