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Author Topic: Dragonfire Defense  (Read 2345 times)

Mathalor

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Dragonfire Defense
« on: April 24, 2021, 06:34:23 pm »

A drawbridge is raised, it's made of microcline and has a microcline mechanism attached, and is hit by dragonfire.  Can the bridge survived, because it's raised?  Is the mechanism destroyed?  How can I dismantle or reattach a mechanism to a drawbridge that is raised?

If I make the bridge out of ash, will it protect the mechanism in this case?

When a bridge is lowered, can it be destroyed by a building destroyer?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Dragonfire Defense
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2021, 02:45:20 am »

Lowered bridges can be destroyed. The bridge itself can't be destroyed when raised, but the mechanism can if it's "located" in an exposed tile, i.e. if the mechanism is "located" under the raised bridge or inside of it (when viewed from the attacking heat source) it is protected (and that protection is lost when the bridge is lowered).
If you have a two tiles long bridge the mechanism ends up under the same tile regardless of whether the bridge opens towards the east or west, and the same tile regardless of whether it opens towards the north or south. This means that in half of the orientations the mechanism is vulnerable (and I don't remember with certainty which tile it's placed on).

A raised bridge is invulnerable regardless of what material it is made out of (including things such as ice). The mechanism can be destroyed if exposed and not made out of a resistant material (exists for magma, but I don't think even adamantine is safe against dragon fire), but the bridge will then remain locked in the raised position, and thus still remain invulnerable.
  It's possible to attach a new mechanism to a raised bridge (it probably requires access to the tile where the mechanism is to be installed, although I'm not certain. If it does, it may be complicated in some cases, such as when that location is covered by magma). Once a new mechanism has been installed, the first pull of the lever (or whatever activation is used) orders the bridge to be raised, and as it is raised already nothing happens. The second one orders the bridge to be lowered, which returns the bridge to the lowered base state. Attaching a mechanism to a raised bridge causes the same kind of situation as you get when a bridge is activated twice in too quick a succession so the second activation happens during the "cool down period" and so is ignored.
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Moeteru

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Re: Dragonfire Defense
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2021, 05:30:33 am »

Building destroyers will never target bridges (raised or lowered), so you don't need to worry about that.
As for the dragonfire, the wiki seems to suggest that metal objects might be immune but you'll have to test it. That information could be woefully out of date.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Dragonfire Defense
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2021, 07:28:40 am »

Building destroyers will never target bridges (raised or lowered), so you don't need to worry about that.
As for the dragonfire, the wiki seems to suggest that metal objects might be immune but you'll have to test it. That information could be woefully out of date.
Expanding on Moeteru's post:
It's true that building destroyers won't target bridges, but dragon fire can take out your lowered bridge while the fire was aimed at the elven caravan (which has happened to me), and it can also take out one or more your traps as a side effect of roasting visitors while on the way inside.
Also, you can destroy bridges by trying to atom smash really heavy creatures (rutherers, ogres, etc.) both intentionally (lowering the bridge on top of them) or accidentally (trying to raise the bridge to stop it from entering, but being too late such that the creature is on the tile the bridge ends up on while raised). Normally, trying to raise a bridge while a creature that is too heavy is on top of it just doesn't work, but won't harm the bridge (you'll just have to activate it twice to actually raise it). The same non action happens when trying to retract a retracting bridge under a heavy critter (I'm not sure what happens if you try to extend a retracting bridge under a heavy critter as you normally don't have retracting bridges directly on top of the ground, and not much reason for trying to extend it while a heavy critter is there when you do have them).
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Bumber

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Re: Dragonfire Defense
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2021, 09:00:57 am »

As for the dragonfire, the wiki seems to suggest that metal objects might be immune but you'll have to test it. That information could be woefully out of date.

Does it still say that somewhere? The dragonfire page is up-to-date.

In previous versions, such as v0.43.03 and earlier, metal objects and buildings were immune to dragonfire, even non-fire-safe metals like tin.
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Bumber

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Re: Dragonfire Defense
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2021, 09:14:03 am »

Lowered bridges can be destroyed. The bridge itself can't be destroyed when raised, but the mechanism can if it's "located" in an exposed tile, i.e. if the mechanism is "located" under the raised bridge or inside of it (when viewed from the attacking heat source) it is protected (and that protection is lost when the bridge is lowered). [...]

This isn't true. I just destroyed a 3x3 raised bayberry wood bridge with bauxite mechanism by putting magma on the exposed center tile.

I'll have to check things that melt next. Edit: Silver bridge with gabbro mechanism same result. Gabbro bridge with silver mechanism same.

The mechanisms and bridge materials are always located on the same tile.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2021, 09:32:16 am by Bumber »
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

PatrikLundell

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Re: Dragonfire Defense
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2021, 11:21:10 am »

Thanks for correcting that, Bumber!
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Mathalor

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Re: Dragonfire Defense
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2021, 02:08:38 pm »

The wiki says constructions are immune.  If I smooth and carve fortifications, will that count, or do I need to mine out the stone and replace it?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Dragonfire Defense
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2021, 05:00:05 pm »

Natural "stone" is immune to everything, and so are fortifications (although the fire can obviously enter through the fortifications and burn whatever is inside). Ice is an exception: natural ice can be melted, but constructions made out of ice can't, so I would replace ice with a constructed fortification (but don't forget to add a roof on top of the constructed fortification).
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Mathalor

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Re: Dragonfire Defense
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2021, 04:28:00 pm »

Thanks
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Valkyrie

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Re: Dragonfire Defense
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2021, 01:15:40 pm »

This isn't true. I just destroyed a 3x3 raised bayberry wood bridge with bauxite mechanism by putting magma on the exposed center tile.

I'll have to check things that melt next. Edit: Silver bridge with gabbro mechanism same result. Gabbro bridge with silver mechanism same.

The mechanisms and bridge materials are always located on the same tile.
Just concurring that this matches my experiences as well.  Lava + bridge_in_some_way_not_magma_safe = destroyed bridge, whether it's raised or lowered, retracting or raising, if the lava is in the right place.

so I would replace ice with a constructed fortification (but don't forget to add a roof on top of the constructed fortification).
There's also the option of constructing a wall, and carving a fortification in it.  Not an interaction I expected to be available (an engraving-related task on a Construction? Madness!) but it works, and means you don't have to worry about the separate floor above.
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Thisfox

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Re: Dragonfire Defense
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2021, 06:54:44 pm »

so I would replace ice with a constructed fortification (but don't forget to add a roof on top of the constructed fortification).
There's also the option of constructing a wall, and carving a fortification in it.  Not an interaction I expected to be available (an engraving-related task on a Construction? Madness!) but it works, and means you don't have to worry about the separate floor above.

I wish it was possible to engrave built architecture. I would also like the ability to decorate it with precious gems and etc. "This wall menaces with spikes of prase" would be nice, but "a scene is depicted on this wall in emerald, the picture is of a broken sword, a symbol of a local government"....
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Dragonfire Defense
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2021, 02:09:10 am »

Toady has at least considered allowing engraving of constructed walls due to popular demand. Of course, no decision has been communicated, as that tends to happen only after it has been implemented and it's been (mostly) verified that it won't have to be withdrawn due to unforeseen problems.
A similar wish is to be able to engrave each side separately, rather than having a single engraving with a facing that's dependent on where the dorf happened to standing when engraving it. This would require a change to the underlying data structures, so the map rewrite would be the natural place to change those to allow for it.
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Garfunkel

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Re: Dragonfire Defense
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2021, 06:56:38 am »

I've had a dragon destroy a raised drawbridge, in version 44.04. My moat froze and allowed the dragon to get close to the drawbridge. I didn't see him destroy it but one moment the dragon was outside my castle, the next it was in my courtyard burning everything and my raised drawbridge made out of stone blocks had vanished.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Dragonfire Defense
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2021, 07:59:16 am »

I've had a dragon destroy a raised drawbridge, in version 44.04. My moat froze and allowed the dragon to get close to the drawbridge. I didn't see him destroy it but one moment the dragon was outside my castle, the next it was in my courtyard burning everything and my raised drawbridge made out of stone blocks had vanished.
If the logic placed the mechanism in the tile outside of the raised bridge (assuming it was 2+ tiles long), the dragon roasting something else could take out the bridge as well as collateral damage.
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