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Author Topic: Africa thread  (Read 7165 times)

Duuvian

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Re: Africa thread
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2024, 01:30:01 am »

I am by no means well educated on the subject of development, but this book was the best of few I've read on the topic. It may in some few ways be applicable in your studies:

Chinese Rural Development: The Great Transformation
ByWilliam L. Parish
First Published 1985
eBook Published 20 June 2016

https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/edit/10.4324/9781315495293/chinese-rural-development-great-transformation-william-parish

I do believe it mostly was concerned with agriculture rather than mining if I remember correctly.
 
I chose that link because it shows the chapter titles at the bottom. The description, or "Abstract" is clearly mistaken as the book I recall dealt almost exclusively with economics. The chapter titles show that I was correct in remembering it as not related to the given description. It appears the descriptions or "Abstracts" on all the pages available for this textbook share this misleading description. If I were to guess, I think the descriptions on various sites were clearly copied from the same source, and from one that mistook this book's description for another book. It's possible that is due to being required reading in the same college course, as shown here where it's together with other textbooks that could be the one the description is meant for (without checking to see if it fits any of them):

https://read.dukeupress.edu/journal-of-asian-studies/article-abstract/45/4/826/333160/Chinese-Rural-Development-The-Great?redirectedFrom=fulltext
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Duuvian

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Re: Africa thread
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2024, 04:05:08 am »

It appears Kenyan youth have been organizing and using the old Occupy movement's name.
https://nation.africa/kenya/counties/mombasa/finance-bill-protesters-brave-rains-to-occupymombasa-4662676

It appears to have links to Russia.
https://nation.africa/kenya/life-and-style/how-raila-17-year-old-activist-daughter-inspired-gen-zs-protest-4664564

It appears to be against things oligarchs would not like. I don't understand the finance bill well, as I'm going off a handful of articles. However large portions to it seem to be friendly to poorer citizens of Kenya. Some parts, probably the fuel tax and possibly the tax on internet profits of individuals (for paid influencers and whatnot) are likely not, but I don't know the details. It also seems like it will force austerity if it is scrapped. The housing fund is something that is generally useful in times of a lack of housing worldwide.
https://nation.africa/kenya/business/explainer-what-happens-if-parliament-rejects-finance-bill--4664488
Other links:
https://nation.africa/kenya/news/angry-youths-swarm-streets-protest-punitive-tax-plan-4664548

https://nation.africa/kenya/blogs-opinion/opinion/gen-z-revolt-nation-awakening--4664440

https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/main-measures-kenyas-contentious-finance-bill-2023-06-14/

https://nation.africa/kenya/news/ruto-and-haiti-presidential-transition-council-in-talks-4664430


In short, it appears from what little I know to be a counter-reformist protest. This is the opposite of what the Occupy movement was intended to accomplish, and while this is going off the information in a few articles, this protest in general appears to be a manipulation of the youth towards weakening of their own interests.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2024, 04:06:43 am by Duuvian »
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feelotraveller

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Re: Africa thread
« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2024, 02:38:00 am »

Not the way this article portrays it.
https://www.theelephant.info/analysis/2024/06/20/gen-z-will-lead-the-peoples-revolution-in-kenya/
That take puts them firmly in line with the spirit of the original Occupy.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Africa thread
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2024, 08:37:29 am »

That take is not a take at all. It says nothing about the political motivation
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feelotraveller

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Re: Africa thread
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2024, 12:04:04 am »

Right, because fighing corruption has never been political. /sarcasm
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Duuvian

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Re: Africa thread
« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2024, 05:53:56 am »

I'm not very familiar with the politics there, but that source seems to largely align with a particular international agenda.

Also their website is messed up in an unusual way, after I opened a few articles in new tabs I then read one and closed the tab, and they all started cycling refresh or something. Once I closed all the tabs out, one kept re-opening on chain refresh until I closed the window entirely.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2024, 05:57:40 am by Duuvian »
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feelotraveller

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Re: Africa thread
« Reply #51 on: June 24, 2024, 01:40:53 am »

I'm not very familiar with the politics there, but that source seems to largely align with a particular international agenda.

Also their website is messed up in an unusual way, after I opened a few articles in new tabs I then read one and closed the tab, and they all started cycling refresh or something. Once I closed all the tabs out, one kept re-opening on chain refresh until I closed the window entirely.

I'm sorry for your browser troubles.  The website has been completely well behaved for me on firefox, if a little slow to open.

Since you question that source perhaps the bbc will suffice:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2jj5mee1pmo
Doesn't give as much background but covers much the same ground in terms of the protest - 'revolutionary' rather than counter-reformist (although that's revolutionary in a very adverstising-like sense imo).

I don't have any first-hand experience with Kenyan politics either, but everyone I talk to who has had closer contact with the country tells me that it is the most politically corrupt place in Africa, for whatever that is worth.
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Duuvian

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Re: Africa thread
« Reply #52 on: June 24, 2024, 07:08:31 am »

Is it to scrap the whole thing or is it to re-write portions of it? The opposition party wants to scrap the whole thing. That would cost the revenue required to pay off an IMF loan and cause greater reliance on taking further such loans in the future.

It does look like it has serious flaws. If it weren't for seeing similar movements turned against their own interest very recently by the machinations of extremely clever and resourced people with no scruples to match their authority, I would not be suspicious. If this is scrapped entiirely, and austerity goes in, who gets the blame?

The browser issue was from using Noscript, an extremely common addon for firefox. With the lack of consumer friendly regulation in my country due to the centrist Democrats having no-contact fumbled in favor of greater social controls and empowering the New Nobility, the addon breaking a website was not unusual or even unintended. What was unusual was the behavior of the blocked script website in what clearly was a malfunction and a potentially irritating if not harmful one at that.

Yes, as to the last poiint that does not reassure towards either side.

The point of using reform instead of revolution is because reform within the system is generally less likely to receive a violent response than revolution, which is usually linked to violent action in the mind of the public even when that is not the intent. Even if we fooolishly loook past the moral question, and furthermore the costs, it still remains that revolution in light of largely (and outside of an outbreak mass violence, correctly) voluntarily disarmed civilian supporters is not a recipe for success; one of these combinations would have to change and I don't advocate for it at current times. As to why that distinction is important: in my opinion if people like me had called for marihuana revolutiion instead of reform through the ballot it probably wouldn't have worked.

On another hand, here is an interesting link:
http://www.parliament.go.ke/kenya-and-us-forge-stronger-legislative-ties
That's the US House of Representatives. I'm wondering if that's partisan. Having US conservative politicians on one side would go a long way to reassure me that the other way is more than likely correct, judging from the past 20-30 years of selfish yet disasterous political choices during the 20 years of, by extension, watching and losing expensively while anything but pretending it isn't happening is cause for ostracization until a final collapse happens and no one loses their job.

However I want you to know the reason I don't jump immediately on things like this anymore is that I believe that people who consider themselves quite the opposite of friends to factions closer to fitting my view than the conservative clusterfuck pillage-off knows this and expect to take advantage of this by steering anyone they can in a bad direction using influential individuals and, where it exisits, leadership of movements directed towards a negative outcome. It's also an ironic way to nudge the conservatives to cut deals to politically speaking sell their soul when they are blinded by lust to hurt their domestic opposition, so it's perfect in the way of making these "strengths" into hypocrisy.
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feelotraveller

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Re: Africa thread
« Reply #53 on: June 25, 2024, 05:04:11 am »

A lot of questions there I can't answer.  But I take it that the protests are against the bill as a whole.  That means a new finance bill which is largely different rather than some tinkering around the edges which is what the ruling party seem to be wanting to do.  And part of the backstory is that this finance bill goes back on the promises made by the current ruling party during its 2022 election campaign.  They are doing what they promised not to.  Hence the outrage.

(Pardon the musical reference but it seems too appropriate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHViH23jQlg (Meet the New Boss, Same as the Old Boss)
or better the whole song, if you are into it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDfAdHBtK_Q (Won't Get Fooled Again - Live, because I like live, ...vale Keith Moon)

I really don't think this is a case of Kenyan young people being played by some unscrupulous actor.  Yes, it is possible that they don't understand their own best interests (if that's possible since who else would decide their 'best' interests?) but it does seem to be a geniune movement rather than some social manipulation.  As to violence, these protests have been remarkably peaceful (non-violent) in contrast to much previous activism in Kenya.  It's a country where lots of political murder takes place, and not just, or mainly, of leaders. Maybe that peacefulness is all part of the revolution?

Another link, this one from a feminist perspective, it also says some interesting general things in passing:
https://www.femnet.org/2024/06/establishing-a-revolutionary-era-of-resistance-a-feminist-perspective-on-kenyas-finance-bill-2024/

I've always been of the opinion that the economy should serve people rather than people serving the economy.  Perhaps you differ?  Honest question, I really can't tell.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2024, 05:06:04 am by feelotraveller »
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Duuvian

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Re: Africa thread
« Reply #54 on: June 25, 2024, 05:46:20 am »

A lot of questions there I can't answer.
Yeah

Third paragraph is feel good wishful thinking.

The feminist article contradicts itself and also uses phrases in common use during information campaigns.

I've always been of the opinion that the economy should serve people rather than people serving the economy.  Perhaps you differ?  Honest question, I really can't tell.
What a load of shit. What I can't really tell is if you are used to failure yet. That's where this path leads. No support for you, friend. GLHF
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feelotraveller

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Re: Africa thread
« Reply #55 on: June 25, 2024, 06:01:00 am »

I'm sure you'll find someone somewhere to agree with you that it's all a plot by the evil ruskies to fill their pockets (or whatever).  But the vast majority of the world is just going to laugh at you.

While some of my comments can indeed be described as 'good wishful thinking' there are quite a few facts there that you're disregarding.  The protests have been remarkable peaceful compared to previous ones in Kenya.  The government is going back on its election promises.  To name just two from the previous post.

If you want to say how the article contradicts itself that might prove interesting.  And hand-waving at 'information campaigns' without any substantiation does little to further any conversation. Or are you just saying, and not willing to say it outright, that the article agrees with views you don't like?
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martinuzz

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Re: Africa thread
« Reply #56 on: June 25, 2024, 09:56:41 am »

The protest have escalated. The parliament building is on fire. Police is using live ammo to shoot protestors. Protestors are gathering dead and placing them in front of the parliament's gate. The members of parliament have fled the building through underground tunnels.

EDIT: the police have regained control of the parliament. At least 5 protestors have been killed. Over 30 are in hospital with gunshot wounds.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2024, 05:12:53 pm by martinuzz »
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Duuvian

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Re: Africa thread
« Reply #57 on: July 05, 2024, 07:33:07 am »

HAHA @ feelo

Sadface at counter-reforms
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feelotraveller

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Re: Africa thread
« Reply #58 on: July 05, 2024, 04:29:46 pm »

You really should be making sad faces about the police brutality.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/7/2/kenya-police-clash-with-protesters-as-weeks-long-tax-bill-unrest-continues
Quote
“People are dying in the streets and the only thing [President Ruto] can talk about is money. We are not money. We are people. We are human beings,” protester Milan Waudo told the Reuters news agency in Mombasa.

Personally I prefer people standing up for human rights over government authorities shooting unarmed civilians in cold blood, and especially over the autocrats who give them their orders.

Doing something about the 1/3 of Kenyans living below the poverty line, or the 67% youth unemployment rate would be good.  I don't see how their lives are going to be improved by raising their taxes another ~25%, after having raised them in 2023 by close to 20%.  That's not reform that's screwing them over.

If you want to say it's for hospitals and schools then you are forgeting that anyone wanting to use them still has to pay, and with what?  No those 'services' are going to be for a very select portion of the population, and that where the 'public' funds don't end up going straight into the hands of corrupt officals.

Pity Ruto's undisclosed 'friends' who apparently paid for his chartered jet to the US aren't willing to invest in the nation the same way they are willing to bankroll him. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd112e8zwp1o  But I guess that is why he has become mega-rich even as he has led Kenya into a debt spiral.

Maybe you could explain how you think his rampant corruption is the leading light of reform?  Or do you think a bit of Trump-speak (or Ruto-speak) can wave it all away as 'alternative' facts?

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Maximum Spin

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Re: Africa thread
« Reply #59 on: July 05, 2024, 06:20:42 pm »

Reform will start when countries start defaulting on IMF loans completely rather than existing in debt slavery, honestly.
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