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[webadict]

(Also, slightly unrelated but something I've noticed multiple times now, Vector is a they, not a he.)

[Vector]

Oh, I don't mind. It's just like high school. "What's that Pokémon?"

[Vector]

And no, Blu's not my partner. The noob is making their own mistakes But it's cute that you're scared of us.

BK making mistakes, but not scum = shield shield shield.

What? Ohhh.

I don't know if BK is scum or not (doubt it, given that you're scum with Caz and Toony), but if they are, then they aren't on a team with me.

That's intended as a deprecating comment about my own play.

[ToonyMan]

@Blue:
We can't eliminate Vector because they claimed Engineer.

1. If we're wrong and they're the real Engineer it would be devastating for town.
2. If we're right and they're a fake Engineer then Web or Jack have a 50/50 chance of dying.

In fact, they claimed Engineer even though two other players (Web and Caz) had claimed Engineer at the time, a very odd choice if they're fake-claiming. Why wouldn't Vector claim Coroner instead here? Two Coroner and two Engineer claims makes way more sense than three Engineer and one Coroner claim. They may have claimed Engineer because they had to, which leads credence to their claim.

[webadict]

Oh, I don't mind. It's just like high school. "What's that Pokémon?"

It's Jigglypuff, from above.

@Blue:
We can't eliminate Vector because they claimed Engineer.

1. If we're wrong and they're the real Engineer it would be devastating for town.
2. If we're right and they're a fake Engineer then Web or Jack have a 50/50 chance of dying.

In fact, they claimed Engineer even though two other players (Web and Caz) had claimed Engineer at the time, a very odd choice if they're fake-claiming. Why wouldn't Vector claim Coroner instead here? Two Coroner and two Engineer claims makes way more sense than three Engineer and one Coroner claim. They may have claimed Engineer because they had to, which leads credence to their claim.

They were the leading elimination target. Claiming allows them to live, as per what you said. Caz unclaiming removes credibility from Vector.

[BluarianKnight]

Hm... that does involve TricMagic being scum, and that certainly became possible with their lowest-possible-tier vote of ToonyMan.

You're not wrong that Vector is probably Gnosia.

However, your picks are much better now than they were before. Buuuut, I can't exactly go for a Vector elimination specifically because the Gnosia will kill me immediately. Or maybe they won't, but that'll leave me in a really WIFOMy spot, and nobody wants web WIFOM, it's all gross and dirty.

Vector + TricMagic team? Possible. Vector + Caz team? Not possible. TricMagic + Caz team? Potentially possible, but like, not at all likely.

Tough call here. You made yourself a really big target by using really bad evidence. If you're going for anyone, though, it'd be best to aim at TricMagic, since Vector is a tough elimination candidate specifically because it's WIFOMy.

The biggest issue is that Tric is the pick I've the least confidence in.

Honestly? I think Caz is the best pick - unclaiming Engineer is.. fucking preposterous. Fakeclaiming as town is.. counter-town play, simple. It'd take a lot for me to think he isn't scum - Caz makes mistakes plenty, but this seems more of a collective scum 'fuck' then a real hit - I think he's AC.

[webadict]

Right, Caz is probably the AC (or in some really weird world, extremely misguided Town???) But, Caz isn't likely to be Gnosia. I mean, maybe. But, if you can build a case, you might live, so go for it! Just note that you're in some pretty deep water, right now.

[TricMagic]

The issue here is why do you want to survive webadict? If vector is fakeclaiming, he's Gnosia with caz's backtracking. Coroner can confirm that. If Coroner dies, then you can confirm someone. If you die, then Coroner is protected by the guardian angel. But as Gnosia, this is a bad scenario to be in, since coroner would confirm vector as human. Which makes you the lier. This is based on the GA always choosing to protect the Coroner as the one who can confirm things. Of the two, being able to tell what someone was is more important than the cop in this case. I'd much rather remove one of the two Gnosia immediately than let them live to sow confusion.

[Caz]

i'm pretty happy if you lynch me as long as you promise to watch web that forced the folk to show their things for no reason.

[ToonyMan]

@Tric:

The issue here is why do you want to survive webadict? If vector is fakeclaiming, he's Gnosia with caz's backtracking. Coroner can confirm that. If Coroner dies, then you can confirm someone. If you die, then Coroner is protected by the guardian angel. But as Gnosia, this is a bad scenario to be in, since coroner would confirm vector as human. Which makes you the lier. This is based on the GA always choosing to protect the Coroner as the one who can confirm things. Of the two, being able to tell what someone was is more important than the cop in this case. I'd much rather remove one of the two Gnosia immediately than let them live to sow confusion.

Again, we can't put Web into cold sleep today for the same reasons as Vector.

For one thing it would allow Gnosia to try to kill the remaining Engineer or Coroner.

No, Gnosia are looking for the Guardian Angel right now. If they can kill the Guardian then they can kill Jack.


@Blue:

I'm not putting effort in - because I don't think it'll matter.

Why? Mislynching is a big deal.

Fuck it, shoot me then.

Investigate me.

How do the Engineers investigate you if we're putting you in cold sleep?

I don't understand the resigned attitude if you want an Engineer to clear you as well.

I'm willing to vote Caz instead, but I suspect you as Gnosia more currently.


PPE:

@Caz:

i'm pretty happy if you lynch me as long as you promise to watch web that forced the folk to show their things for no reason.

Why are you willing to be lynched? Mafia-ally?

[Jim Groovester]

incomprehensible nonsense

Yep, definitely town TricMagic.

Jim Groovester - Seems Town, but has potential to be scum. But, the equity is too low to bother with for a while.

Weird. I thought you cleared me.

Alright, Jim is Town. Who's next on the clearing block?

'Equity too low' seems a bit distant away from being cleared.

You only have two choices: You're dumb town, or you're dumber scum. I gave the one that gives you the benefit of the doubt, but I may have miscalculated the depths.

In your post immediately prior to this one you called TricMagic lultown and now in this one you have opened up the possibility of TricMagic being scum.

What was about TricMagic's post that you're replying to that made you doubt TricMagic? It can't be because TricMagic didn't make any sense, because if he's town he literally never makes sense.

Web, who are you going to inspect?

Vector, naturally. I have to. I'm committed to the bit.

If you're the genuine real deal Engineer why would you inspect Vector? What would a result on them tell you that you haven't already surmised from their claim? What would a result on Vector tell the rest of us?

Seems like an unproductive inspection choice.

Or maybe you're just saying that and your real target is going to be somebody else which is perfectly within my expectations for how you would play.

They were the leading elimination target. Claiming allows them to live, as per what you said. Caz unclaiming removes credibility from Vector.

Yeah, in a game without hammers and how many hours away from the deadline? I don't get the impression that Vector being the most voted player at the time was relevant in the decision to claim.

Vector, was being the the top lynch target relevant in your decision to claim?

Fuck it, shoot me then.

Not a fan of a defeatist attitude but if Supernatural 10 is anything to go by it's within your town meta to give up.

Interesting that Caz is on the bad list for both sides. Makes it more likely for AC? Or a crewmate patsy? I don't get Caz's reasoning as town for their claim and unclaim.

Gnosia don't have a reason to treat the AC follower differently from town until it's lylo.

i'm pretty happy if you lynch me as long as you promise to watch web that forced the folk to show their things for no reason.

Isn't it better for the team you win with to stay alive until lylo?

You're playing funky. Definitely AC Follower.

No, Gnosia are looking for the Guardian Angel right now. If they can kill the Guardian then they can kill Jack.

But there are no roleflips so they won't know that they've killed the Guardian Angel except if the Guardian Angel says 'yes I am the Guardian Angel' and nobody counterclaims.



I'm not a fan of a BluearianKnight lynch but I don't have a compelling alternative. Between webadict and Vector being engineers I'm starting to lean toward Vector being the real one. webadict is playing wily.

Jim Groovester - town
EuchreJack - uncontested Coroner
TricMagic - fitting perfectly into his incomprehensible nonsense town meta
ToonyMan - playing strongly, would be surprised if Gnosia
notquitethere - playing weakly and lacking presence
BluearianKnight - getting picked at and not adequately defending themselves
Vector - Engineer claimant
webadict - Engineer claiminat
Caz - former Engineer claimant and probable AC Follower due to bizarre play

I don't want to lynch EuchreJack, ToonyMan, or TricMagic; Vector and webadict are off limits because of arbitrary game theory reasons; Caz is the AC Follower so there's no good reason to lynch him. This leaves notquitethere and BluearianKnight as potential lynches for Day 1 and they're both about equal in my mind.

[webadict]

Jim, I inspect Vector because Vector is either the AC Follower or Gnosia. There are no other possibilities. If Vector is Gnosia, then Caz has to be AC Follower. If Vector is AC Follower, then things are whack.

Weird. I thought you cleared me.

Well this is gonna be another game where you keep your hat. Yeah Jim. I cleared you. That means you literally can never be scum because I am never wrong. Also, we just had four people say dumb things, and four is a bigger number than three. Three being the number of Gnosia plus an AC Follower. So if Vector is Gnosia, that reduces the number of bad people that can be Gnosia! But, if Vector is an AC Follower, then uh oh spaghetti-o, looks like the team composition is not Vector and we can do something else!

Need more things explained?

Just because you have scummy positions, say scummy things, do scummy things, does not make you scum! A basic principle of social deduction is understanding the false positives, but they're a necessary evil because people like TricMagic exist to do whatever TricMagic is doing now, and whatever is Caz is doing now, and whatever BluarianKnight is doing now, because AT LEAST ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT SCUM!

Like, look, maybe you're not a math guy, but if everyone does stupid scummy things, is everyone scum? Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh, no!!! 3 people are scum! Vector is one, but I can narrow down which one they are.

Now, if you want to argue whether it's better to investigate someone else, that an argument you can have. But, pointing at me and saying that's scummy to investigate Vector, why don't you save that for when it matters? Let's debate the merits of investigating Caz or TricMagic or BluarianKnight. You can't vote me or Vector out in spite of the literally obvious nature of Vector's fakeclaim, and the sad fact of the matter is, I am simply disappointed in the obviousness of needing to claim literally Day One, that it's simply baffling that people aren't immediately voting out Vector for not claiming and trying to hide behind obfuscation. Vector is a grown-up and has a brain. They dumbtell when they're scum ("Why do we neeeeeed to claaaaaaaim? Claaaaaaaiming should be for when the real power roles are deeeeeeead, and can't be found by the lack of a fliiiiiip.")

I cannot possibly keep everyone in line by myself. It takes more than one person to win a game. But, if you want to act like I am an infallible god that never makes mistakes and is incapable of simply ever changing their mind, then I am going to tell you to shut the ever-loving-fuck up and to sit the fuck back down and face the fucking corner while the rest of us talk!

I am the one on the inside, and looking out, all I see are people smashing into each other like lost ducklings, unable to imagine there is such a thing as intelligence in this cold, dark, and lonely planet.

I didn't ask to be Engineer. I just am the Engineer. If you have a better idea on who to inspect, then say it. We can debate if you state a position. Heck, your idea might make sense!

GAAAH rant over!

[EuchreJack]

Blue is currently the best target for elimination because it saves the Engineer from having to inspect them AND because you'll know for sure tomorrow whether or not their Gnosia.  And if they AREN'T Gnosia, then suddenly all of today's logic has to be re-examined.  Better to find out that the current logic train is wrong now than later.

As for our illustrious Engineers, Day 1 they'll either inspect each other and turn back identical results, or scan other people and probably turn up Town results.  Town results outnumber Gnosia by a lot, so the Fake Engineer is probably going to clear someone as Town if they don't do the double accusation shuffle.

Hm, nobody seems to be asking Vector who they'll inspect as Engineer.  While I expect the Engineer will do whatever they want, might as well ask:
@Vector: Whom do you plan on inspecting as Engineer?

[webadict]

You know what?

Fuck it. Caz.

LAL. It's what Caz would do.

[TricMagic]

You know what?

Fuck it. Caz.

LAL. It's what Caz would do.

webadict, it's what luckyowl would do.

More to the point, you're defending a position you yourself created and set up, forcing us to play to a certain tune. I'm not having any of it. If toony won't go, you are the next best thing. GA can guard Coroner to check you, and if you are human, we lynch Vector tomorrow. If Vector is human, we lynch Caz.

If you're Gnosia however, Toony is going straight to the chopping block day 2. Wasting investigations on such a mess of claims is a bit pointless given we have no reason to trust either of you until the coroner confirms your dead body. Or you get shot, which Gnosia won't do to maintain a position of power.

Do you see my point now, or is it still incomprehensible? There is only a single coroner, and 2-3 claims for engineer. I know who'd I protect, the only one who has no counterclaim to muddy the waters. Do not give Gnosia the ability to bring forth confirmations of humanity and accusations of Gnosia. They already know who is who and will absolutely kill off the confirmed humans. The fact is, we can't trust any engineer results until after at least one is dead. And that won't happen unless town decides to do so. Wasting your investigation on each other is also Gnosia, as it wastes time for info you already knew.