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[webadict]

TricMagic, you are literally saying that I am too quick to call you Town, but the only thing that does is make you scum.

You only have two choices: You're dumb town, or you're dumber scum. I gave the one that gives you the benefit of the doubt, but I may have miscalculated the depths.

Okay... Like... Your logic makes the least amount of sense possible. Why don't you explain how ToonyMan is scum, though, instead of how I am scum. We'll start there because you have the logical consistency of Belgian breakfast.

[ToonyMan]

@Web:

I am much rather for Vector's removal, but, it appears that ToonyMan knows that if we launch BK, Vector can't kill me, and I can verify that Vector is Gnosia tomorrow, and Jack will confirm BK is Gnosia tonight.

I like this plan. We can trust Jack's results.


@Jim:

The lack of a second counter-claim means only a single person is fake-claiming, making it almost certain that the fake-claimer is AC and not Gnosia. Another reason why mafia need to fake-claim every claim. I'm disappointed since I made this abundantly clear before the game started.

My dunce sense is tingling. Why is a second counterclaim (or lack thereof) significant?

The AC Follower should always fake-claim, 100% of the time. If there's only one fake-claim it must be the AC Follower.

Caz rescinding their claim confirms this assessment, it would draw too much heat for a Gnosia.

[TricMagic]

To answer, openly claiming day one is a loss for town either way with how you set it up. If no-one counterclaims then guardian angel has to target you, plus you have great strength in leveraging that role. If you are Gnosia, you'd know who is human or not. If osmeone does counterclaim you, guardian angel has to pick between you. And by having all roles claim, guardian angel has to pick which power role they want to keep alive. And if both roles have a counterclaim, it becomes almost impossible for the guardian angel to block a PR kill. Quite the setup, wouldn't you say?

[ToonyMan]

Gnosia can't kill PR claims at night if there's more than one claim. It's the ultimate protection. The Guardian Angel doesn't need to protect contested claims, only uncontested claims (in this case, Jack the Coroner). Gnosia killing a PR claimer outs the other PR claimer as a liar.

PR claiming players will be put into cold sleep after a certain point in the game, never night-killed.

[ToonyMan]

Tric, what should a real Engy or Coroner do if an AC or Gnosia fake-claims their role on Day 1?

Stay quiet and claim on Day 2? No. This makes your claim incredibly unbelievable. Also, what if you're killed before Day 2? You'll never have a chance to contest their claim and the liar will be believed 100% as no one else will contest their clam, making for a guaranteed scum victory.

[webadict]

Not only that, but if I don't claim Day 1, I leave open the potential issue of someone else claiming my role after I die because there are no roleflips, essentially losing the game.

[ToonyMan]

If a PR role is claimed after Day 1 and there have been no claims, we cannot 100% trust these claims. Thus, claiming on Day 1 is the correct play for this setup in particular. It's about figuring out who the fakes are over the course of the game.

I'm 95% sure Web is the real Engy, but a contesting claim from Vector means I'm not 100% sure anymore.

I'm 100% sure Jack is the real Coroner, because it's uncontested.

[Vector]

Vector is also covering hard for Blu like Rev3.

I literally just said I wasn't scum with Blu. WTF are you on.

Doesn't make a lot of sense to suspect ToonyMan for having correct opinions about how to play the game type.

No, I'm voting Toony because of my three suspects, Toony is the one who didn't claim Engineer.

[webadict]

And no, Blu's not my partner. The noob is making their own mistakes But it's cute that you're scared of us.

BK making mistakes, but not scum = shield shield shield.

As previously discussed, BK doesn't have the sense to lie low.

From Rev3: BK is noob = shield shield shield.

You know damn well that the real bodyguard can't counterclaim or else Town loses. Stop acting like this confirms you somehow as anything but scum.

From Rev3: "The real X can't claim" = scum alert.

Vector, you are a troublesome goose, but contain you I shall!

I am absolutely sure you are Gnosia, but the problem with your logic is simple: ToonyMan isn't sure of my alignment here. The problem with me claiming a role is that I fully understand the repercussions of the actions I've done, and ToonyMan knows that I know. ToonyMan doesn't fully trust me, and they're trying to hope for someone else to claim Engineer specifically because I would absolutely fakeclaim first post. But, look at how ToonyMan is treating me, and you'll realize that they don't trust me.

If anything, I am purposefully aware of that fact and suggesting plans that can be confirmed off of EuchreJack specifically to assuage their beliefs. I am a powerful ally for either side. So, I literally have to prove myself on EuchreJack.

I think the thing here is that I would have to be not-ACF, but by that logic, ToonyMan cannot Gnosia, and further, ToonyMan has to be Town specifically because of all these factors, and because they didn't fakeclaim.

If ToonyMan were Gnosia, ToonyMan very likely would've claimed Coroner in their opening post. I gave them that opportunity by claiming before they could. So, you can only assume V or W for ToonyMan right there. And Toony can't be W because they don't trust me.

If you can't see ToonyMan is Town, you aren't looking.

[Caz]

Web, who are you going to inspect?

[webadict]

Web, who are you going to inspect?

Vector, naturally. I have to. I'm committed to the bit.

[Leafsnail]

Votecount:
ToonyMan: Vector, TricMagic (2)
BluarianKnight: ToonyMan, webadict, EuchreJack, caz (4)

Day one will end 11pm GMT, Tuesday 4th May if the vote is not tied (that's about 50 hours from now).

Is there any shortening of the turn? Not necessarily a Hammer (as I recall that is plain out).

I forgot to set any shortening rules. For future days I'll allow a majority vote to shorten.

[notquitethere]

Happy to go with BluarianKnight for today.  I find the Vector/Tric arguments less compelling than the Toony/Web position.

Interesting that Caz is on the bad list for both sides. Makes it more likely for AC? Or a crewmate patsy? I don't get Caz's reasoning as town for their claim and unclaim.

[BluarianKnight]

Fuck it, shoot me then.

I'll state this - Toony's not the fucking Guardian Angel. Besides that, we've had far too many 'suspicious' folks to set down a true scum team.

I'm not putting effort in - because I don't think it'll matter.

Simply put - Web's probably the true engie. Vector's Gnosia due to the attempt of an AC signal, Caz is.. of course, easy as shit to read, and Tric is probably my third guess - anyone who tells me 'oh they can be read' is burning their house down with their flaming pants.

Again, me trying to read into Web - and failing, as I tend to do, has led me to be targeted, and mixed in. Sorry to spoil the fun - I'm not the AC, GnosVec and (guessing) GnosTric. Caz did that for you.

If you're certain it's Vector - Vote him off. We aren't playing the game - it's fine to take a small risk - investigating each other is pointless as Engineers - the Engineer know's he is the only one.

Investigate me.

[webadict]

Hm... that does involve TricMagic being scum, and that certainly became possible with their lowest-possible-tier vote of ToonyMan.

You're not wrong that Vector is probably Gnosia.

However, your picks are much better now than they were before. Buuuut, I can't exactly go for a Vector elimination specifically because the Gnosia will kill me immediately. Or maybe they won't, but that'll leave me in a really WIFOMy spot, and nobody wants web WIFOM, it's all gross and dirty.

Vector + TricMagic team? Possible. Vector + Caz team? Not possible. TricMagic + Caz team? Potentially possible, but like, not at all likely.

Tough call here. You made yourself a really big target by using really bad evidence. If you're going for anyone, though, it'd be best to aim at TricMagic, since Vector is a tough elimination candidate specifically because it's WIFOMy.