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[Jim Groovester]

I don't know why you killed me first when I had the game dead wrong from the start and everybody else had it right.

[notquitethere]

I had it queued up

I don't know why you killed me first when I had the game dead wrong from the start and everybody else had it right.

Well it turns out I shouldn't have, but I just queued up the kill first thing. Picked someone that could be trouble. The first day came to an end sooner than I was expecting but if I'd been in the thread I'd probably have changed it.

[ToonyMan]

I don't know why you killed me first when I had the game dead wrong from the start and everybody else had it right.

It was to frame Jack, but Jack was the Best Friend which made this plan backfire since he could just claim his role to confirm himself as town. Otherwise, you dying first was 100% what I expected after aggressively pressuring Jack.

Also, you're Jim and you're town. You gonna die early.

[notquitethere]

Jack claiming was awkward for me because it just made a confirmed town player for the rest of the game and there was no good counter. I suppose if I'd got the shot off correctly earlier on, it'd be different.

[ToonyMan]

Jim
Your play was okay. Your reads were somewhat accurate, town-clearing TricMagic and Bluarian, but you aggressively pressured Jack for some reason? On the flipside, you dying first was almost guaranteed and it cleared Jack as town since a Nightmare!Jack would be insane to kill you first. Jack claiming Best Friend after you pressured them even more in your one death post made him even more obvtown.

Bluarian
Your play was good. Being killed second made NQT extremely suspicious (why wouldn't NQT be killed second?) and your pro-town activity made the Nightmare think you were the Dreamer which gave KittyTac another day to work with.

KittyTac
Your play was good. You were obviously either the Dreamer or Nightmare based on your lurking. I was very worried you were actually the Nightmare, but went with Dreamer instead which was correct. If you were the Nightmare this game would have been yours easily. On the other hand, I'm surprised the Nightmare didn't figure you were the Dreamer based on your behind-the-scenes play.

EuchreJack
Your play was okay. Claiming Best Friend was risky (since it removes a daykill target for the Nightmare), but in this case a smart move as Jim was pressuring you hard and it made you confirmed town. NQT even asking for a counter-claim is bizarre as no Nightmare would claim Best Friend ever. In the end you made the right choice which is what matters, even if I feel Blue and Tric did most of the work there.

TricMagic
I don't know what to say. You were obviously town in this game because your reason and logic made absolutely no sense. The fact you make more sense as scum is disheartening, but your suspicions of NQT were correct at least.

NQT
Killing Jim first was fine. Killing Blue second was a huge mistake. Did you really think Blue was the Dreamer?

Let me just list some big moments in the game that felt extremely scummy to me and why I ultimately decided you were the Nightmare:

1.

Guess what losers? I'm the fucking Best Friend@!

EVERYONE is there a counterclaim to this?

Asking this is scummy. It doesn't make sense from a town POV.

2.

If NQT wasn't leaking his scumtells from every pore, I'd put my vote on you.

You keep saying this... but you're unable to coherently explain your thoughts. Give me a case!

Demanding cases is scummy, look at spy!Blue and spy!Tric's play in Revolution III.

"You have no proof!!" are the words of scum.

3.
I noticed that you were online when Blue was killed, but didn't post at all.

A lurking NQT is always scum, town!NQT would have posted immediately with something. Even KittyTac posted to say he would be back on later.

When you finally do post it's this:

Tric I explained why I thought it was fine to vote when I replied to Jim.
Thoughts
So either Tric or Kitty is the Nightmare: Tric is being obtuse and evasive. Kitty has laid low and been noncommittal. This is horrible bind to be in. Made worse, if we wait either one of them will die as a friend or Euchre will catch the bullet as the bestie. 
If A: then Euchre can help make the final choice between the two and we have a decent chance of winning. I'll know for certain who the Nightmare will be. (I'm betting Tric, but could be K).
If B: We have no extra information, Euchre won't be here to help and it'll be a three way finger point.
Tric, what do you think of Kitty's play? Actually look at the posts.

You don't direct a case on either Tric or Kitty being the Nightmare, and instead try to push Tric and Kitty onto each other. It's scummy.

You should be pointing a finger at Tric or Kitty at this point, not waffling.

[notquitethere]

Okay, you're right, I should have spent more time offstage Nightmare hunting and onstage making up some niggling bullshit to vote Kitty or Tric over.

Pressuring people about nonexistent cases is normal town play for me but I think you're right that I framed it all wrong especially as I was the target of those votes.

[ToonyMan]

I think some players are better at suspecting someone intuitively.

My guess is that Tric felt NQT's play matched their Magic Mafia play and that's why they found NQT scummy, but had no direct reasoning.

Having good intuition is great, but you won't be able to convince anyone unless they see things the same way.

[EuchreJack]

EuchreJack
Your play was okay. Claiming Best Friend was risky (since it removes a daykill target for the Nightmare), but in this case a smart move as Jim was pressuring you hard and it made you confirmed town. NQT even asking for a counter-claim is bizarre as no Nightmare would claim Best Friend ever. In the end you made the right choice which is what matters, even if I feel Blue and Tric did most of the work there.

I'm trying to play better so I'm gonna ask "HOW could I have done more work there?"  I wasn't around for the game that tipped Blue and Tric off.  I still don't really get the scumhunting.  Pretty much the only thing I'm good at is being ObvTown.

[EuchreJack]

Also, whether or not you see someone online is not quite the obvious tell.  That feature can be turned off, as I've done right now.  Sure, its a tool, but not foolproof.

[ToonyMan]

Invisible mode is off by default, although you're right that it should really be on by default for mafia.

[TricMagic]

I think some players are better at suspecting someone intuitively.

My guess is that Tric felt NQT's play matched their Magic Mafia play and that's why they found NQT scummy, but had no direct reasoning.

Having good intuition is great, but you won't be able to convince anyone unless they see things the same way.

Their first posts are what made me think that about them. Specifically saying to others 'do you understand the rules'. To me, that reeked of control, trying to set things up. Town has no reason to do that, and NQT doesn't have one either in their playstyle. It was too off from what I knew of them. Later posts cemented the feeling for me, and Jack pretty much ended any doubts.

[EuchreJack]

Reading up on Beginner's Mafia IX, or Ex Cathedra. Learning a bit about scumhunting, mainly because Web was screaming advice with occasional comments from Mod Vector.

I think some players are better at suspecting someone intuitively.

My guess is that Tric felt NQT's play matched their Magic Mafia play and that's why they found NQT scummy, but had no direct reasoning.

Having good intuition is great, but you won't be able to convince anyone unless they see things the same way.

Their first posts are what made me think that about them. Specifically saying to others 'do you understand the rules'. To me, that reeked of control, trying to set things up. Town has no reason to do that, and NQT doesn't have one either in their playstyle. It was too off from what I knew of them. Later posts cemented the feeling for me, and Jack pretty much ended any doubts.

You see, it would help if you clarified "...and Jack pretty much ended any doubts."  That sort of thing is not clear.  I assume, because I was in the game, that you mean "...and Jack confirmed Town eventually, eliminating my suspects from Jack and NQT to just NQT".  But it could also mean something completely different.

Stuff like that is why Blue had to translate for you, and die to confirm.

....

Also, I'm just gonna say that I had already suspected NQT heavily and they were being hounded by other players, so I had to eliminate the other options as overall explanation of my play.  Yes, that was totally it. 

[BluarianKnight]

Honestly, my only thought was.. NQT - you typicially play more fact-focused with townplay. You don't go down to arguments or chase for bait - you present your cases, build them, and tend to have at least some logic to chasing scumtells.

Scum!NQT attempts this, but you usually end up trying to grab at straws/do things Town!NQT would never do. That's the best way I can kind of explain it - it's a gut read at this point.

[notquitethere]

On the bright side, because I'm apparently so obvious as scum, it should mean I should continue to almost never be lynched when I'm playing town.

I have played plenty of solid scum games in the past though, but I think the old tactic was always "lay low and let townies devour themselves" which doesn't work if you're on the backfoot and they're trying to get you.

[FallacyofUrist]

Anyone have any feedback for me on the setup itself?