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[EuchreJack]

Reading over the archive of old Mafia games, I believe the term for webadict's conduct towards me is "buddying".

webadict, as a highly experienced player, am I using that term right?

[webadict]

BK sheeping TricMagic.

Reading over the archive of old Mafia games, I believe the term for webadict's conduct towards me is "buddying".

webadict, as a highly experienced player, am I using that term right?

Correct! Nice job. I am also planning to Chainsaw Defend you, which os attacking anyone that attacks you.

[ToonyMan]

Oh I get to vote too?

PASS

Proper post in a bit...

[EuchreJack]

Bro, You better cool it with the accusations or I’m gonna start singing Justin Biebers “What do you mean” song in your face. But for real, We have no evidence to go on other then suspicions at this point. I personally believe we should at least wait till the end of the first mission to accuse people, But you do you I guess. I just think it would be really easy to accidentally vote for a rebel believing them to be a traitor based on a few misplaced words. I’m just sharing my opinion tho, You can do whatever. But I’m watching you, You seem a little quick to throw out accusations at people. 🧐🤔

Ah, I see your concern here.

I mean, if you're afraid of taking chances, you can try to win off of mechanics alone.

But, you're in the Mafia subforum. We pride ourselves in reading people's words. Every word I write has been meticulously crafted and placed. There are psychological principles at play alongside the mechanics. Who, what, where, when, and whys matter.

So, you should indeed watch me. But, as your Commander, it would be incredibly futile.

@ToonyMan: Because I'm a glutton for punishment, and if I'm wrong, I'd like proof of it. The thing is, you'd never fail the first mission on your own, and FoU would never fail the mission on their own. If you were BOTH Spies, then it would fail, but if only one of you two is a Spy... I don't expect it to fail.

Now, BK? They'd probably Fail it if they're a Spy, so and I'd never expect you to pick BK on your team to duo-Spy in this case. Unless you thought that far ahead... Nah, you'd want to be clear, and you wouldn't know how I'd justify it here in the reverse. You'd only pick yourself and two other Rebels and pass it.

You'd NEVER trust FoU to co-Spy in this case, and especially because FoU would never FAIL it if they were Spy with you. So, I'm forced to conclude that there is at least one Rebel in the group of FoU and ToonyMan.

I'd say that you wouldn't care about failing the missions. You'd be trying to find the Commander. Thus, if the Mission Fails, it only proves you're Rebel.

I haven't had too much time to dig in my heels - but this? This feels off.

In short - if it fails, I must be the spy. It's a great case - to push the blame on somebody else. And to prod a spybuddy to fail it to push town into a bad position.

I'm gonna hold my vote for now - it's a goddamn waste to vote early. Save it. Wait until it gets close - or when you'll not be able to, then put it down. Information is worth it.

I'm leaning passing for now - I think we need information. If it fails - NO ONE should be 'confirmed' or 'cleared' of suspicion. That sets a bad precedent where one wrong 'confirmed' can let the spies claim victory.



I think Euchre's a Rebel - very jumpy - but it feels like he's getting back into the handle of things. Not off my list of suspects though.

BluarianKnight, haven't heard from you yet.  Since you'll be the one picking the team if Toony's Pick fails, any ideas on what we might be seeing?  Or not seeing?

D1 is vital. We get a double-whammy, we'll be pretty set. If we pass? We're in the disadvantage - we'll have bias on players who might've just bought themselves confirmation. Don't let go of suspicion on anyone.

I'm personally keeping my eyes on those with the wordy, roleplay filled types - Webadict, that sort, because it gives a lot of chances to slip in messages.

If I had to guess.. It's a Web-Toony-someone else for Spies. Web gave Toony a perfect out for it - I don't think it's FoU, but it could be Web-FoU-someone else too.

I appreciate the advice, but how to you reconcile those two parts I've underlined?  They seem to be contradictory.

[EuchreJack]

Dude, stop pretending not to be Spy.  Guess it's time for me to role claim.
Role: Rebel.  Vanilla Rebel if you prefer.  I'm no Commander, no Bodyguard, no Spy.
Insinuating that I'm a Spy reinforces my belief that you're a spy.  Lame attempts at roleplay are a bad idea right now.  Accurate information benefits the Rebels, inaccurate info benefits the Spies.

You're not a spy Euchre, this much I'm sure.

Also, any REAL Commander wants his team to be failed, because this conveys to the Bodyguard who is not spies, without revealing that they are the Commander.  You are a fake, most likely Spy trying to draw out the real Commander.

...I see.

You're implying that you are the Commander instead and not me.

I see, I see. You're the Bodyguard, aren't you?

ToonyMan, why on earth are you looking for the Bodyguard or the Commander? Only Spies want to find them.

[webadict]

Euchre, pay no attention to ToonyMan. They are probably Town.

Instead, watch TricMagic and, to a lesser extent, BluarianKnight. What do you make of those two?

[ToonyMan]

Fail. We have no need to do a mission right away, and the mission that takes two spies to fail it would be a good place to earn a point.

You voted FAIL without understanding how the game works...

FAIL. Of course I'd be happy to have myself on the mission roster like the good loyal rebel I am, but I want to get more info out of this day.

Why are you failing a mission both me and you are on? Do you think Blue is a spy then?

To answer the question, I'd rather see a few other plans posted and voted on to provide us with more information from this phase. I don't know enough about Blue this game to make a judgement yet. If it was a later mission then I'd probably vote to pass that plan, but it was the very first pick.

And then what? "I'd rather see a few other plans posted" is an excuse. You either have more information than the rest of us, or you're making a bad kneejerk choice.

I just put you on a Mission 1 team, if you're town then you'd know the chances of us passing this mission with no spy sabotages is significantly higher than if you aren't town. Voting FAIL on a Mission 1 team you're on makes no sense.

How do we get a better idea if Blue is a spy when people on board the mission aren't even passing it?

Also - this is a huge red flag to me too. Toony - people can and SHOULD fail you. The information gained is worth it - calling people spies for doing so is pretty scummy to me.

What?? When does a team get passed then?? You're on this team too??

A team that passes has significantly more value than a team that doesn't pass. Vote analysis on a team that fails has little value compared to a team that is voted to pass, does this make sense? People's reasonings for voting PASS or FAIL are more important for a team that actually goes out on the mission, whether or not the mission succeeds or not.

If we can't even pass a Mission 1 team then we've already lost.

[ToonyMan]

ToonyMan, why on earth are you looking for the Bodyguard or the Commander? Only Spies want to find them.

I'm trying to make the spies' lives harder.

Claiming the Commander has also encouraged some other players to claim the Commander, which is great. You should try it.


@Webadict:
Care to share what this obvious towntell is for TricMagic and why they aren't town in this game?

[EuchreJack]

Euchre, pay no attention to ToonyMan. They are probably Town.

Instead, watch TricMagic and, to a lesser extent, BluarianKnight. What do you make of those two?

Neither player has grasped what game we're playing.  Overall more incompetent than me.

But I'm sure we'll all figure it out eventually.

Pretty sure ToonyMan is Spy, but I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt.  I did mention thinking of switching to Pass until I was told that was impossible, after all.

[webadict]

@Webadict:
Care to share what this obvious towntell is for TricMagic and why they aren't town in this game?

TricMagic is really easy to read if you know what to look for. If TricMagic is utterly incomprehensible, they're Town. If they're playing carefully right off the bat, they're scum.

It's just that easy.

Vector can back me up on this.

[TricMagic]

@Webadict:
Care to share what this obvious towntell is for TricMagic and why they aren't town in this game?

TricMagic is really easy to read if you know what to look for. If TricMagic is utterly incomprehensible, they're Town. If they're playing carefully right off the bat, they're scum.

It's just that easy.

Vector can back me up on this.

Like you have to be raging mad to be town, but if you're calm and friendly you're town? Like how quippy Caz poking around is town, but non-engaging quippy caz is scum? Like how methodical Tonny is town, but gambit Toony is scum? You can't just call my actions incomprehensible and get away with it webadict, there is usually a method to that madness.

[EuchreJack]

@Webadict:
Care to share what this obvious towntell is for TricMagic and why they aren't town in this game?

TricMagic is really easy to read if you know what to look for. If TricMagic is utterly incomprehensible, they're Town. If they're playing carefully right off the bat, they're scum.

It's just that easy.

Vector can back me up on this.

Like you have to be raging mad to be town, but if you're calm and friendly you're town? Like how quippy Caz poking around is town, but non-engaging quippy caz is scum? Like how methodical Tonny is town, but gambit Toony is scum? You can't just call my actions incomprehensible and get away with it webadict, there is usually a method to that madness.

But Gambit Toony is scum.  Let's be clear on that one. 😄

[FallacyofUrist]

@Webadict:
Care to share what this obvious towntell is for TricMagic and why they aren't town in this game?

TricMagic is really easy to read if you know what to look for. If TricMagic is utterly incomprehensible, they're Town. If they're playing carefully right off the bat, they're scum.

Uh, has Tric ever been scum before?

Claiming the Commander has also encouraged some other players to claim the Commander, which is great. You should try it.

You know, if we all claim commander, then the spies will have to sort through a giant cloud of chaff to find the real one.

Which is why I'm totally the Commander.

[BluarianKnight]

I appreciate the advice, but how to you reconcile those two parts I've underlined?  They seem to be contradictory.

Sorry - I used pass for two different meanings.

The first was passing the vote for the team to go. It gives us a base to start at to get the ball rolling - that's my playstyle.

The second was us not being sabotaged on the mission - us passing is the worst case scenario. While it does get us closer to victory, it doesn't provide us any information - in fact, it does the opposite, painting people as town, who may have either messed up (two spies on a mission, both were hesitant, no catch), leading to two spies being townlean, or one squeezes through smartly, or just all town - all possibilities, but nothing to lean either way. It is better for Town if they hit the first day. It gives us suspects to look to, and may start us down a line of suspects - who talked to X, who mentioned them, so on and so forth. It's a start.

Also - this is a huge red flag to me too. Toony - people can and SHOULD fail you. The information gained is worth it - calling people spies for doing so is pretty scummy to me.

What?? When does a team get passed then?? You're on this team too??

A team that passes has significantly more value than a team that doesn't pass. Vote analysis on a team that fails has little value compared to a team that is voted to pass, does this make sense? People's reasonings for voting PASS or FAIL are more important for a team that actually goes out on the mission, whether or not the mission succeeds or not.

If we can't even pass a Mission 1 team then we've already lost.

I don't disagree that passing the first team is a good call - my issue is that you're calling people spies for failing.
People might not like what they see already - or that something is off. As well.. if we do fail a team, and another team runs.. if that second team fails, it gives us great bits of info - did the Spies push for a failure of the first team because it was all town? Or perhaps two spies? We have more information, and that too gives us plenty to work off of. But just voting FAIL in of itself is not a scumtell.

That's why I find it a red flag - you want this to go through - makes sense, you set the team, but telling people they're scum if they refuse makes me feel like you'd rather not shuffle teams up again - Town has no reason for that D1. Spies do - if they've got a good bit, or- have a good person to blame once they fail the mission, maybe a perfect setup? Or maybe they just don't want to risk the next person picking all town.

[ToonyMan]

Uh, has Tric ever been scum before?

Yes. Vengeful 13 and CYOM4.

He didn't do very well.

You were in CYOM4 so it's odd to ask this.

That's why I find it a red flag - you want this to go through - makes sense, you set the team, but telling people they're scum if they refuse makes me feel like you'd rather not shuffle teams up again - Town has no reason for that D1. Spies do - if they've got a good bit, or- have a good person to blame once they fail the mission, maybe a perfect setup? Or maybe they just don't want to risk the next person picking all town.

My team doesn't have spies on it though, because I'm the Commander. I'm perfectly justified calling people out for voting FAIL.

I'm giving you a chance to prove yourself here. FoU has already given up by voting FAIL for a Mission 1 team they're on. TricMagic is incapable of reading.

The fact is:
Spies will always PASS a team that has one spy on it (two spies for Mission 4).
Spies will either PASS or FAIL a team that has no spies or too many spies.

I believe it's more likely for spies to PASS a team that has too many spies than a team that has no spies, but they could go either way. On the other hand, there is no universe where spies pass a team that has no spies on it, it's suicide to their wincon.