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[a1s]

ACTACTACT, unsign from the Enterprise Ship Contract, citing destination confusion.

There's no such clause in the contract you signed.

you can't just sign a contract and then not follow it

Anyway, I still have that buyer who will take Enterprise shares off you. For 0.9gn per.

[andrea]

@PowderPowderPowder
duration 6 months, interest 10% paid monthly, can suspend interest for up to 3 months, can seize assets if you don't pay. Interest suspension is used automatically when interest is not paid, even if you don't explicitly ask. Running some accounting now to determine how much money I have available.

@TricTricTric
The plan works on my side. However I am running some accounting now to determine how much money I have available.

[TricMagic]

The turn has not processed, you are not locking me into this A1s, or swindling me. I can just double down and force you to take sand? You can't buy the navigator without me.

K andrea, I await your letter of contract.

[andrea]

It is actually an interesting precedent to set. You could argue that a ship sale is only effective when the turn occurs and the funds and goods are exchanged. Or seen another way, the ship contract isn't complete yet: it still needs the signature of the seller. Of course, you can make arguments the other way.

Spoiler: Sharky's financial services (click to show/hide)

Resources
Funds: 4.75 Guineas
Royal favour: None
Commodities: None
Investments: Exclusive charts to Norderlands

Bank Favours
-Flazeo
  -0 favour for outstanding interest payments

Financials
Debts:

- 3.91 guineas, to Pibleton (Kashyyk), Turn 2, no term, 4.5% compound, Advance warning for withdrawal: 3 turns, interest added to principal
- 3.91 guineas, to Greg ('gnean), Turn 2, no term, 4.5% compound, Advance warning for withdrawal: 3 turns, interest added to principal
- 3.58 guineas, to Meister Nagant (m1895), Turn 2, no term, 4.5% compound, Advance warning for withdrawal: 3 turns, interest added to principal
- 2.00 guineas, to VVT, Turn 8, no term, 5% monthly, 3/3 suspension available, 3 months notice for withdrawal

Credits:
- !!2.8 guinea, from Blue Fish Enterprises (Iridium), Turn 2, 6 months, 0.3 monthly 0/3 suspension available, Interest accrued: 0, Interest paid:0 Expiration: Turn 8.!!

Expired Deals
- 3 guinea, from Wilco Ventures (Flazeo), Turn 0, 6 months, 0.3 monthly 3/3 suspension available, Interest accrued: 0, Interest paid:1.8 Expiration: Turn 6.
- 1 guinea, from Rock's firm (Rockeater), Turn 0, 6 months, 0.1 monthly 0/3 suspension available, Interest accrued: !!0.4!!, Interest paid:0.2 Expiration: Turn 6.
- 3 guineas, to VVT (Fox), Turn 0, no term, 0.15 monthly, Interest accrued: 0.40. Expiration: Turn 7. Expected value at expiration: 3.55 guinea

[a1s]

Luckily andrea provides navigators for 0gn upfront.

[TricMagic]

Which requires a 60% majority, which you don't currently have. Not even counting the fact there is no such terms in the contract, so choosing to take one on can be placed firmly on the shoulders of the ones who hired them, at no cost to me. Likewise, Censure doesn't exist in these contracts, if you were to set a precedent, my current contracts could easily expel the dead weight that is BFE, meaning a net profit.

It is actually an interesting precedent to set. You could argue that a ship sale is only effective when the turn occurs and the funds and goods are exchanged. Or seen another way, the ship contract isn't complete yet: it still needs the signature of the seller. Of course, you can make arguments the other way.

Of note, being unable to change your course before the turn is written will lead to more caution, and longer times between turns. Whereas the other way time can be extended to deal with the issues that arise from new insights. The Enterprise seemed like a good investment, until it bogged down due to people not paying what was needed for these charts. Ironically it comes back to the charts being seized due to BFE disappearing.

[NUKE9.13]

I am perfectly within rights to strike myself from it before the turn is processed a1s.

That's not how I read the rules. We're going to have to ask NUKE9.13 to arbitrate.

ACTACTACT, unsign from the Enterprise Ship Contract, citing destination confusion.

The turn hasn't been processed yet. It's a mute point If I can't the money together, but I can and will. Also Mute if the Enterprise can get it's act together and actually purchase the navigator, which it hasn't.

ANDREAANDREANADREA: How's the loan situation looking? Viable?

Okay, 1: it's moot, not mute. Mute means no sound, moot means not relevant.
2: Contracts can absolutely be official before the turn is processed. They can be undone as well, but that requires folks to agree. The contract you signed does not appear to allow one party to pull out unilaterally.
3: It does appear to be true that the Enterprise shareholders have not figured out how they will be paying Andrea, but given that Andrea has offered an option for payment upon return, it is arguable that the Enterprise will default to that option if no other option can be figured out.
  3b: Not that that would give you the legal right to tear up a contract.

So, Tric, I refer you back to your fellow shareholders- who are, at least currently, your fellow shareholders. I hope you can reach a satisfactory outcome that leaves everyone where they want to be. I'm not going to tell you what to do, but the option of selling your shares to someone else is viable.

PPE: many posts happened

The turn has not processed, you are not locking me into this A1s, or swindling me. I can just double down and force you to take sand? You can't buy the navigator without me.

You signed the contract. Holding you to that contract is not swindling. You also cannot force them to sail south, as changing the destination requires 60% of the shareholders to agree.

It is actually an interesting precedent to set. You could argue that a ship sale is only effective when the turn occurs and the funds and goods are exchanged. Or seen another way, the ship contract isn't complete yet: it still needs the signature of the seller. Of course, you can make arguments the other way.

This is an interesting argument. However, the plain text of the contract is
"We, the undersigned private entities, agree to purchase the ship 'Enterprise' to [...]"
The contract is not buying a ship, it is agreeing to buy a ship. The ACT that a1s performed is the buying of a ship.


Once you have signed a contract, you cannot remove that signature unless agreed upon, or the contract specifically allows that.
I refer you to the FAQ: "Try not to get hoodwinked into signing a contract that lets another player steal your money- because that's not against the rules, so I won't stop them!", and "you can't just sign a contract and then not follow it"

If you are not satisfied with this judgement, you may make an appeal, with a clearly stated argument why it is wrong. However, I would highly encourage you to figure it out between yourselves instead.

E: One more thing. Lazy Fair means freedom- that includes the freedom to make mistakes and wind up in a situation you didn't expect.

[andrea]

I have 4.75 guineas available for loans, plus 2.8 credit against Blue fish enterprises which I doubt a shipwright will accept.

This means that I can't fulfill both requests unless Iridium pays this turn.


However, considering the ruling I imagine Bathtub corsairs aren't interested anymore, and Powder won't need the loan

this is the template if any of you is still interested.

We, the undersigned Sharky financial services, agree to transfer X guineas to the undersigned company, Y.
This amount will incur into a monthly interest of 10% of the initial sum. The initial sum will need to be repaid in full after 6 month. Failure to pay interests or to provide the full initial sum at the end will cause expropriation of assets for at least equal value.
In consideration of the cyclical nature of trade, it is agreed that interest payments can be suspended for up to 3 months. The amount due will still need to be paid either immediately or spread across the rest of the loan. No further suspension can be awarded until there is no longer outstanding suspended interest.

Signed:

Ironically it comes back to the charts being seized due to BFE disappearing.

Historical note: actually, if you check the contract between me and iridium this chart rental has been planned since the beginning. Don't blame him, the only difference is you are paying to one person instead of 2. (even ships owned by one of us wouldn't be exempt, by that contract.)

[Powder Miner]

still do kind of want to buy those Nsailor shares

[andrea]

Well yes, but is tric willing to sell if he can't get out of the other contract?

[a1s]

He totally can. But it will cost him 0.3gn. Which leaves him with enough money for him to captain his own ship. I wouldn't sit here and gloat if that wasn't so.

[andrea]

Right.

@TricTricTric

If you pay that 0.3 penalty for getting out, and take a 2.75 loan from me, the whole deal can still work. (considering circumstances, I will still apply the discount as if you borrowed 3 guineas)

[evictedSaint]

I'm still interested in purchasing the Clarisse shares, purely for economical reasons.

[TricMagic]

Any others willing to contract out a loan? Andrea, I'm willing to take what you got so long as I can scrounge up some from others. Any willing to loan that according to the standard ten percent contract Andrea uses?

.58.+4.75=5.33. I need 5.7 in loan from others, if any wish to take it?

At this point I'll ask around to see if I can get some more loans. I can still make the payment if I focus on paying it back on my first shipment.


Sadly the Clarisse shares are no longer viable given that they are out. I'll come back to you if I need them.

Right now I'm calling for loans so I can buy me a ship. It's a good business opportunity.

[Powder Miner]

Howsabout them Nsailor shares?