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[Toaster]

Jim's doc claim didn't quite fire into my head hard enough.



Also, Web, that's two games in a row you've said you gave me an underpowered role.  Clearly next time you have to give me something grossly overpowered to make up for it!



Day of the Dead could have been fixed by making it it everyone every time.  That way BK would have to convince everyone.

[FallacyofUrist]

Very relevant mafiachat posts: #228, #103, #53.

Also, kudos for the amazing flavor.

[ToonyMan]

Haha, mafia did try to kill me on N2, there wouldn't have been any deaths if the Caz plan worked since Toaster was guarding me, oh well...

I'm very curious - why was NQT and FoU targetted?

With my inspect and my daykill? Because I used the day game to figure out that they were scum, bro :/

Uh yeah, this. NQT and Fallacy were dropping scumtells like crazy.

So were you, Blue, but I just so happened to suspect Rev more than you when I was writing my last living reads. We can't all be perfect.

[FallacyofUrist]

Funnily enough, we just... forgot that you were going to die from lover syndrome.

Relevant music.

[webadict]

I'm very curious - why was NQT and FoU targetted?

With my inspect and my daykill? Because I used the day game to figure out that they were scum, bro :/

^

NQT was very obviously Mafia. Read the Spore Rapport for two top-tier players literally completely reading NQT. NQT was then inspected (This is what caused the double Wands, by the way. Vector's ability made NQT alignment-inspect Vector.)

FoU was... Welllll, they were also very obvious. There was a little bit of fallout from NQT being obvious that went on there.

Jim's doc claim didn't quite fire into my head hard enough.



Also, Web, that's two games in a row you've said you gave me an underpowered role.  Clearly next time you have to give me something grossly overpowered to make up for it!



Day of the Dead could have been fixed by making it it everyone every time.  That way BK would have to convince everyone.

Yes, there are a bunch of different ways I'd make it better if I had to add it next time. I think you might be right on that one. Having everyone join back in would've made for a weird ending, and I kinda love it.

Also, fair. Next time, I'll give you a super broken role. Speed was a hard theme to fit in my idea of roles. I was thinking too literally. I think I needed something more lateral. Like... I dunno. I wanted you to be active. You could've been a super passive role, but that's what I ended up making you in the end!

Funnily enough, we just... forgot that you were going to die from lover syndrome.

Relevant music.

^ There were a lot of things that were really confusing this game, but this was the most confusing of all.

[FallacyofUrist]

For a Momentumancer? Maybe a role that builds up the more they do something. Every success adds a stack of momentum, and all their abilities can work better - or perhaps just on a larger scale - if they have a high level of it. But being blocked or failing reduces momentum.

[webadict]

For a Momentumancer? Maybe a role that builds up the more they do something. Every success adds a stack of momentum, and all their abilities can work better - or perhaps just on a larger scale - if they have a high level of it. But being blocked or failing reduces momentum.

Not a bad idea...

[notquitethere]

*bows*

Town figured out scum in the first day but then allowed themselves to be mislead by role speculation. Scum played an A- night game (the only mistake was my scum partners not realising that there was no point targeting Toony N2) and Blu really carried the team for the last few days. I laid out this plan and it was almost carried to the letter and we won:

Here's how you can still win. Currently 9 players:

N3 Reverie pardoned, Caz NK'd = 8 players
N4 Reverie lynched, Secret NK'd = 6 players
N5 Toaster lynched, Jim NK'd = 4 players
D6 is day of the dead, bring back Fallacy and me, and we'll be even stevens with town and may be able to quickhammer town, leading to a win.

Blu wisely bumped Jim up the priority list because Jim claimed to be a multi-voter, which I communicated through deadchat:

And now Jim claims LYLO busting multi-voter power. Would love you to point that out to the thread too. Sometimes my buddies miss things, you see.

My day game was just super scummy, as others have noted, but then there were some upsides to that. I made it up somewhat through ghost disruption on dying. My pattern of ghost votes even got Toony thinking I was allied with Toaster or Secret. My interactions with Reverie helped falsely implicate her. And when I was able to post, I tried my best to push our night game to the max.

Having two sets of town masons, one of whom had a clear reason to suspect me as lock scum was tough to play against. Town had three days to lynch the final scum player, which is more than fair I think.

[ToonyMan]

@NQT:
It wasn't really fair, no. But I didn't want to suspect you for mechanical reasons alone so I worked towards a case which you happily filled yourself.

Everything that could go wrong for town, did, after FoU was day killed. My speculation while dead was only to help Blue survive being outplayed by scum, but next time there's only one medium I might as well keep my mouth shut and save my breath.

I even wrote down a bunch of notes for you (I mention this in dead chat) I was going to share after the game was over...which I don't see the point in sharing since clearly your mafia play is good enough to win regardless. Maybe next time when I'm not incredibly salty and players are punished for playing bad.

[TricMagic]

Actually, you would have survived if Caz had vanilla'd you. TricMagic had stolen NQT's auto, so it WOULD HAVE WORKED, since TricMagic was still alive.

fuck

I had thought you had it handled. Had I known you still had that tag you definitely would have been my target.

[TricMagic]

Animate Dead was a bit too strong - but it was the only way I was able to win that.

I'm very curious - why was NQT and FoU targetted? Did someone day-target and get lucky, or was it just really bad plays?

NQT was scummy, so I targeted them. FoU was definitely scummy do to how their role was setup, and never stepped out of suspicion. You ran away with the whole Medium claim, cause others did think you were fine.

What did that wand Vector used do anyway..

[ToonyMan]

Actually, you would have survived if Caz had vanilla'd you. TricMagic had stolen NQT's auto, so it WOULD HAVE WORKED, since TricMagic was still alive.

fuck

I had thought you had it handled. Had I known you still had that tag you definitely would have been my target.

fuuuuuuuuck

[notquitethere]

I was cackling so hard over the Caz/Tric lover swap. The thing was, Tric absolutely could have saved Toony by claiming. As it was, town were mislead by me fakeclaiming the Lover effect was still active, and town buying it despite one of them knowing I was lying.

All to say, even a busted scum player can still have some bite in them in the day game.

[ToonyMan]

Why didn't you claim the auto steal on D2 Tric??? I was lying to save face after the Caz plan didn't work.

[webadict]

The second set of Masons was indeed to offset the power of Blu's role, as well as additional WIFOM about whether I'd have two sets of Masons in a game.

Overall, the power balance was still in scum's favor, but I don't think it was as bad as I first thought. I'd still change things, but I'm not hitting myself over it repeatedly. Just a couple of times.

@ToonyMan: I think that some of what you say is fair. I believe that you and 4maskwolf legitimately nailed down NQT in spite of mechanical reasons. 4maskwolf was right about all 4 scumtells. FoU got caught because of it as well, AND these to led to several hints on finding BluarianKnight.

I also think that this is a game of Mafia winning in spite of themselves. If the Town had had just one more thing go their way, it would have ended in a Town victory, it was seriously that close.

If Caz had vanilla'd ToonyMan? 100% definitely.
If Toaster had saved Jim? 100% definitely.
If the Town had waited for Jim's post? 80% likely.
If Secretdorf had continued actioning during the Day? 60% likely.
If Reverie had used their one-shot? 10% possibly.
If a kill had been protected against? 80% likely.
If Jim had gotten one more Point? 100% likely.
If TricMagic had Lunar Disrupted BluarianKnight? 100% definitely.
If Caz had Burnouted BluarianKnight? 100% definitely.

If you think the roles were a factor, you are free to yell at me. I definitely think BK's role was significantly overpowered, and it led to a situation of mechanical confusion that ultimately won for Mafia. I also see the frustration of having a scum Medium, where you felt your help was ultimately a hindrance looking back. That's a solidly unpleasant experience, so I'd have to rethink doing that.

If you have changes or suggestions beyond what I've pointed out, definitely point them out. I could see you having some concern over your role. Your role was potentially powerful, but dragged down by mechanicalness. I think the double Autos was probably overkill, and the delay on Mushroom Colony wasn't useful enough, and your Day ability wasn't enough to counteract it.

Animate Dead was a bit too strong - but it was the only way I was able to win that.

I'm very curious - why was NQT and FoU targetted? Did someone day-target and get lucky, or was it just really bad plays?

NQT was scummy, so I targeted them. FoU was definitely scummy do to how their role was setup, and never stepped out of suspicion. You ran away with the whole Medium claim, cause others did think you were fine.

What did that wand Vector used do anyway..

It summoned a Day Disabler Skeleton. Each Day, it could disable a player if they performed an action. Day Skeletons are much tougher than your regular old Night Skeletons.