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[4maskwolf]

Side note but this is now the second Wuba game in a row where I've been shanghai'd into a mason team by someone else's role.

Though this time it wasn't because someone literally made their role "hijack 4mask to be on my team".

Not complaining, mind, playing masons is a fun way to play, just a funny note.

Also I tried to change my avatar to Shakerag's for this game as the Shakeragician but Bay12 had a fit about having two of the exact same avatar and refused to let me.

[Vector]

I would say that's a bit sour - I'll accept I didn't win alone, but I didn't JUST do verbatim quoting to keep in the good sights. I picked what to say, kept what I didn't want to myself, and even added my own spins to things. I tore a win that last day, barely, with mostly just my own conviction.

I did stay rather quiet for the first part - mostly because I REALLY did not want to get targeted.

I'm glad for you, but the part where my getting 2/3 of your team killed and being a mason didn't confirm me as town wasn't mostly your own conviction, questioning, observing, or planning. That was NQT and Toony's work. You also had an ability that allowed you to bypass town's elimination choices on 2/5 ingame days, meaning that it really didn't matter what the rest of us did almost half of the time; you got multiple free, mostly untrackable, mostly unblockable nightkills out of that.


I guess that the other thing I've learned this game is that there is literally no action I can take anymore that will turn me into a confirmed townie Arguing about it doesn't help anything. Gotta just keep hunting.

I think, instead of removing the elimination, it should be focused on implementing Vengeful mechanics, where your role flips and you get some type of immediate counterplay to it. Much more fair for both parties, AND it can potentially be played around by Night mechanics.

I strongly agree with this. I think that the revivals work in Supernatural because of the knowledge we have about the possibility of changed alignments, but revivals/pardons in general should be pretty rare or just balanced differently.

[4maskwolf]

I largely agree with Vector that this game felt like it was won by strong scum roles (or, more accurately, a single strong scum role) moreso than strong scum play, which does leave it feeling a little sour.

BYOR 15 had some strong scum roles that were probably too synergistic, but it felt like the scum earned their victory with good play in both the day and night game. This felt like the scum got steamrolled and then pulled a victory out of their ass because of a role that was more powerful than intended.

[webadict]

I think, if anything, revivals being rare AND knowing that they are temporary is what should happen. I liked what 4maskwolf was able to accomplish. Especially since it was known they would leave.

All in all, I hope that the OP role didn't completely ruin the game for everyone. I try to make the game pretty fair for both sides, but sometimes I try something I didn't think hard enough about and get this. It ain't the first time and it ain't the last time.

I think the things I liked were the Full Moon mechanics that allowed special powerplay days. I would likely keep something like that in the future (though, with better mechanics.) I also liked Vector's role. There were a number of pieces to it that felt like a fun JOAT with choices. I also liked Luckyowl's role, and I'm sad it never got a chance.

[notquitethere]

I really liked the full moon days. Knowing you had to pace and plan things ahead for future days. More mechanics that change the feeling of certain days or phases are very welcome.

[4maskwolf]

Personally my favorite part of the game was web's EoD 1 roast of Luckyowl in the flavortext.

Jokes and sour grapes aside I enjoyed the setup and the idea of "moments of power" is certainly an interesting one, but it's definitely one of those weird things where if you're in the know it gives you a bunch of toys to play with and some decisions to make but if you're not in the know you can basically go the entire game without realizing what's going on or particularly caring. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, mind, but if it's not clear what the mechanics are for it's very easy to just ignore them. I know I did, look at how much I commented on the various day action fuckery when I was alive.

Also I have literally zero idea why you've been so complimentary of me in post, web, I literally just sheeped better players, died N1 due to mech, and had zero game impact.

[webadict]

4mask, if no one sheeped in this game, we'd have a bunch of shepards and wolves.

[4maskwolf]

Side note but a thought I've been pondering over with the whole NQT/Toony/4mask knot this game had.

I wonder if it would be good design in a BYOR to have a mason team whose existence (but not identities) are known to the wolf team from game start and who are aware the wolves know they exist. Might create an interesting dynamic where the masons can either choose to play it openly and put all their cards on the table or try and outfox the wolf team to keep a powerful towncore alive until it lets them break the wolves backs, and gives the wolves something to hunt for in their daygame above and beyond typical rolefishing.

:sparkleshrug:

[ToonyMan]

I was 90% sure this game would be a town steamroll win or that Tric converted Vector on N2 and performed the wildest D3 bus ever by blowing FoU away.

I would have been happy with either of these outcomes, win or loss. Scum daykilling their own buddy is a play I've never seen before. It's why I got so excited when Reverie flipped town, because it meant I was wrong and this wouldn't be a complete curbstomb win.

It's why I enjoyed MVM2 so much even though I lost right at the end, because the circumstances of my demise was so entertainingly ridiculous.

[4maskwolf]

One thing I’ve always been curious about MVM2: that game contained an anti-SK FBI team, how did a survivor claim not get instantly whacked?

[ToonyMan]

One thing I’ve always been curious about MVM2: that game contained an anti-SK FBI team, how did a survivor claim not get instantly whacked?

...I don't know. Secret really convinced me.

Hence why it's entirely my own fault.

Must have drank the Lucky juice.

[FallacyofUrist]

Well, half of that FBI team included Luckyowl...

I even acknowledged that in the flavor. Luckyowl's actions included inspecting their already non-SK confirmed partner using their ability.

Kinda absurd.

It's why I enjoyed MVM2 so much even though I lost right at the end, because the circumstances of my demise was so entertainingly ridiculous.

Also eeeeeee this makes me feel so proud of running that game.

[notquitethere]

However we feel about how balanced the game was or how well any player played, I think we can probably all agree that this was objectively the funniest thing to happen in the entire game:

Replacement. I just came back and honestly I don't have the time to look through 50 pages of post. Rather than blunder town and I am just going opt out.

[4maskwolf]

However we feel about how balanced the game was or how well any player played, I think we can probably all agree that this was objectively the funniest thing to happen in the entire game:

Replacement. I just came back and honestly I don't have the time to look through 50 pages of post. Rather than blunder town and I am just going opt out.

God I was rolling when I read that and all the snark that followed.

[ToonyMan]

It's why I enjoyed MVM2 so much even though I lost right at the end, because the circumstances of my demise was so entertainingly ridiculous.

Also eeeeeee this makes me feel so proud of running that game.

You should be, that's my favorite game so far for this 2020 run besides Vengeful 13. I've enjoyed certain days of other games (end of D2 of Super10 was amazing), but overall it's those two.

However we feel about how balanced the game was or how well any player played, I think we can probably all agree that this was objectively the funniest thing to happen in the entire game:

Replacement. I just came back and honestly I don't have the time to look through 50 pages of post. Rather than blunder town and I am just going opt out.

Or Secret voting Fallacy right after they were daykilled?