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[Nilsolm]

Has anyone seen any grudges between dwarves recently? As in, the last few versions since 44.12 at least?

This seems to have been an issue for a few versions at least. Previously, I chalked it up to relationships in general not forming as they should due to dwarves not talking to each other, but that was fixed in 47.03. That change certainly made friendships reappear, but something still seems to prevent grudges from forming.

I recently noticed this again when I set up a a rather minimal temporary area while the actual fort was being carved out. That took quite long, which meant that everyone but the miners spent over a year mostly idling in a tiny tavern. I went through the relationships of every dwarf, and I didn't see a single grudge. Everyone made plenty of friends and acquaintances, but no negative relationships at all. This is in line with what I've seen in previous forts as well, so I can't imagine it being a coincidence.

[NW_Kohaku]

Grudges take a combination of high personality conflict, not sharing the same jobs, and having socialized enough to move beyond "acquaintance" stages to what would be friendship if they didn't have a personality conflict that precludes friendship.

The conditions that lead to grudges in general tend to be fairly uncommon, as it seems to take several personality traits in conflict that are from a specific list (such as being trusting and honest against a manipulative liar) and I would make sure that the dwarves in question are beyond "Long-term acquaintance" in level before counting them as not developing a grudge.  Additionally, if dwarves gain skills in similar jobs, they can actually lose a grudge and become normal friends, so this might be caused by having a lot of dwarves gaining skills in the same job (such as if they're all gaining Grower skill from picking crops at harvest time).

[PatrikLundell]

In the past it hasn't been uncommon for two of the starting 7 to start with a grudge, but it was a while since I saw one, I think. NW_Kohaku's post would indicate that guilds open to everybody might be grudge killers (i.e. of grudges, not due to), as the demonstrations there can cause dorfs to gain skills "randomly".

[FantasticDorf]

You'd much think the opposite would be true, too many people with different ideas and levels of skill sounds like a ripe cauldron for jealously bound grudges especially in a culture of craftmanship it probably feeds into a real world inner psyche that in observing something being done in the same job as you might make you feel inadequate unless you're all up to the same specification.

From what i remember also of early 44. modifications with easy to anger course and rude goblins, grudges that commonly develop on their level are a subject for being attacked in a fit of anger so there's real game mechanics not being seen, not least everyone settling the loyalty cascade by being satisfied to punch up the people they like the least as a higher priority on each "team", and petty murder/assault for the justice system.

• Somehow i feel like not honoring someone's call because you grude them or you hardly know them to "enact vengance" for battles that aren't your business compared to say a close friend would solve a lot of the versions recent problems, especially with fight snowballing. If you're grudged and make few friends expect to fight alone.

[Nilsolm]

Grudges take a combination of high personality conflict, not sharing the same jobs, and having socialized enough to move beyond "acquaintance" stages to what would be friendship if they didn't have a personality conflict that precludes friendship.

The conditions that lead to grudges in general tend to be fairly uncommon, as it seems to take several personality traits in conflict that are from a specific list (such as being trusting and honest against a manipulative liar) and I would make sure that the dwarves in question are beyond "Long-term acquaintance" in level before counting them as not developing a grudge.  Additionally, if dwarves gain skills in similar jobs, they can actually lose a grudge and become normal friends, so this might be caused by having a lot of dwarves gaining skills in the same job (such as if they're all gaining Grower skill from picking crops at harvest time).

Interesting. Do only job-related skills count for this or does gaining social skills also have an effect? If so, could that be the cause for grudges failing to form, since they all seem to be improving those just by talking?

[NW_Kohaku]

Interesting. Do only job-related skills count for this or does gaining social skills also have an effect? If so, could that be the cause for grudges failing to form, since they all seem to be improving those just by talking?

I haven't done testing, I'm just reporting on what I've seen others post, but I think it's mostly job skills.  That said it's not like having the same job skill is a cure-all, it just gives dwarves more "points of commonality" that make them bury the hatchet.  It seems like a score where you add points for having compatible personalities in some cases, remove points for incompatible personality traits in some other areas, and add points back if they share skills.  It's only if the total is below a certain threshold that they will not become friends and develop grudges, instead (and dwarves that will develop grudges don't display them until they would have hit the "friends" threshold otherwise).  Since changing personalities in a controlled fashion is hard, just adding skills is the most direct way to make dwarves like one another.

[Nilsolm]

I see, thanks. I'll see if I can come up with a way to do some science on this later.