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Author Topic: Supernatural 10 - Game Over!  (Read 87119 times)

Vector

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Re: Supernatural 10 - Day 1 begins
« Reply #375 on: February 25, 2021, 11:59:45 pm »

Well, OK: Toaster in the event that nobody convinces me to swing back to Lucky. I can be convinced in that direction but I'm standing down on the wagon for now, I've never played a Supernatural before and am going to defer to those with greater knowledge of the setting.
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webadict

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Re: Supernatural 10 - Day 1 begins
« Reply #376 on: February 26, 2021, 12:53:01 am »

Gonna piggy back off Vector's comments here. I have no idea how resurrects work here.

I'm okay with a Toaster elim. I'm okay with a Persus13 elim. I could stomach a juicebox elim in spite of how ToonyMan's reads on them affect me. If we trust Luckyowl, I can even stomach a TricMagic or BluarianKnight elim.

I think Luckyowl can't come up with a fakeclaim. I also don't think Luckyowl is a scum Priest. But, like Vector, I have zero ideas how rez works.

I'm up way past my bedtime. See ya.
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Supernatural 10 - Day 1 begins
« Reply #377 on: February 26, 2021, 02:18:50 am »

I have become the WoTer.

I'll add that I'm still bothered that Secretdorf only voted LuckyOwl after he was prodded and pressured about it instead of doing that to begin with. He's not clear by any means.

It's actually worse than I thought when I said this.

As I have not been replaced yet, I'll say that I am being lynched due to thinking I am lurking scum, but I am not. Scum are jumping on me because I am not defending myself and townies think I am the perfect lynch target. I would have claimed but I am not because scum will know how to kill me which is bad for town. Luckyowl's probably a far better target than I but he is on the scumteam so scum are not fueling a lynch on him. I think NQT is probably town because theyre not going for the easy lynch.

As my last words, I'll say tricmagic is most likely scum but I am not voting for them because other people think they are town and also  they could be lying as town because their claim is simply a lie and I don't know why they are being townread by some people.

Luckyowl's play so far in  this game is almost opposite to their town play. Why is that not clear to people? When they are town, they are scumhunting and not just keep saying they are town. I at least tried to post my thoughts on the game but the large amount of content is almost impossible for me to read and properly process and analyze due to already less time I have due to RL. Many of my reads so far are slightly influenced by other reads which I considered genuine. Therefore, I'll say that any town player voting me should immediately unvote me because if you dont, then persus or heydude will likely have to claim which will be not good for town. As an alternative lynch, I'll propose luckyowl or tricmagic. Oh and toonyman's probably town too.

I wish I had read this post more closely before I unvoted because if I had read it I might not have.

You are once again betraying what you say is your top scum read to go do something else instead.

Once was bad enough but twice is too difficult to ignore even if you are already replaced.



Luckyowl, are you genuinely busy somewhere else this week? I want to hear from you.


yeah, I work during the day and finish in the evening. So I'm mostly not here for a good while. When the game started on weds I came back to 7 pages of nonsense rvs and memefeast post that I didn't wish to give a 'read' on those sort  of nonsense so I went off to play some M&B:2. Here I am and now it seems I'm up the chopping block. So I'll laid out a proposal. I am the priest and I think we should lynch webadict. Mainly for two reason. If he is scum, then we just outted a pretty terrifying scum player, if he is town then I can rez him at night bringing him back into the game as a more powerful confirmed town. It's a win-win in all account. A dead scum! Web is great and a confirmed town! web who was brought from the dead is even better.
I personally wanted to stay quiet for two reasons. First I wanted go off and play games with few hours I have to myself and two I am afraid that I would get night killed all I hope is that someone can protect me as I res Web if he turn out to be town with his lynch. Sadly. I doubt anyone would join in with my plan, but it's the only way I can confirm myself as a town player by bringing a possible  town player and make them a powerful confirmed town player. If we lynch a scum! Web then that too confirms me.

This is exactly the sort of plan I would expect you to come up with but it's terrible for several different reasons, which is entirely within what I expect from you so I guess my read on you is improving.



I'd really like to hear some logic and persuasive arguments from you.  I'm seeing you glom on to the easy target, and I know you're better than that.

If I haven't impressed you so far I doubt I'm going to.

You should be impressed, however.

GLORY DAYS ETC.

Case on BluearianKnight

I like this, but I'm biased because it agrees in large part with my read on BluearianKnight.



Tric, Vector, of the three wagons (Secret, Blue, Lucky) which do you favour? What about Juice?

Definitely Lucky, but I'll be completely honest that it's primarily about *really* not wanting to LYLO with them again, especially if they're not going to bother participating D1. Every unit of time that they don't post makes them look worse (or more appetizing, I guess).

So that this isn't all about policy, I don't think we should wagon Secret when they're up for replace and bothered to come back and make another post. Blue and Juice are ... idk, at least trying. I'm not going to shed tears over any of them getting tossed D1, but I think we have the most to gain from wagoning Lucky.

If they come back and try to defend themselves because they think they're about to die, we'd at least get some data.
Damn it, really? You guys ae really going to vote Luckyowl?

*shrug* Look, they're awful to LYLO with and that almost made them into a D1 policy-lynch. Add "I'm just not gonna do D1" to that? Nah. Like, we haven't seen a big scumslip so far other than this kind of disengagement, so we might as well roll.

What's your other recommendation -- 4mask or something? Don't make me laugh.

I'm not a fan of LuckyOwl policy lynch aspect of your vote but I endorse the 'he hasn't done anything' part of it. (At least up to this part of the thread where you made these posts.)

You know, what is LuckyOwl's record for lylo? The times I've seen him there he managed to clutch out a win while annoying everyone in the process.

- LuckyOwl PR claim

Priests aren't worth keeping around solely for their role.

Also this is quite a turnaround from your previous opinion of LuckyOwl. He suddenly showed up, sure, but the policy lynch part of it still seems like it should be in play.

- Persus needs a chance to catch up.

Recently replaced players can still be sc

Never mind we already hashed this out.

How 'bout shooting IcyTea31?

. . .

Leaning ICT and Toaster for sidelining right now. None of ICTs attacks have had much heft.

Sidelining?

IcyTea31 is making grooves on less popular tracks (I hope this metaphor makes sense) but I don't get the sense he's avoiding anything out of malice.

Everyone, and I do mean everyone, I want your opinion on this.
Mm, actually ranking my shoot-then-rez list:

Shoot then rez is a bad plan.

Let's not do that.



Everyone else: is the complete moon logic Tric's been spewing about me alignment indicative? I've not played as many games with him as most of you have so I'd like some input.

I agree it's nonsense but I don't read scum off it.

This is probably the wrong take.

But the first thing I thought when I read that post from Persus was that he'd asked his scumbuddies for a quick summary and that's his interpretation of it. It's just a weird takeaway from actually reading up to the point in the game where I claimed wererat, people were more grumpy about my memeing about than about the claim itself and by the time I claimed wererat it was already more or less accepted.
It also completely glosses over things like Tric's claim which also happened during that time period.

For intuition I don't think it's bad.



Vector: Low-profile play implies something to hide. Scum-or-cop. Readslist looks like town PoV.

Low profile? What?

I get no impression Vector is trying to avoid anything.

Quote
As for funniest, I would spend the game converting LuckyOwl over and over again even if he was unconvertable and even if the conversion was successful.
Is this wishful thinking, or do you actually suspect scum has a conversion mechanic?

I have no knowledge of what the scumteam is. The context of the question was conversions so I answered with that context in mind.

Looking at how the wind is blowing towards lynching one of the low-activity players, I think juicebox is where I want my vote to be right now, as only NQT is pushing for that one. If correct, it'd be so unlikely to be a bus that it'd core NQT in my book. I'm fine with a Luckyowl lynch, too.

If I read this right this is actually an indirect attack on notquitethere?



Jim, do you think Lucky and Juicebox are less scummy than Secret?

At the time you asked this, LuckyOwl was only marginally less scummy than Secretdorf. I don't read juicebox as scum, just terse.

LuckyOwl claiming and actually being present drops him down quite a bit but I still strongly rate Secretdorf/Persus13 as scum.

Literally anyone, does anything Juicebox has come out with make sense from a town POV?

I don't have a good read on his meta but nothing he's produced screams too terribly at me.

Do you really think a scum!NQT would think it a priority to publicise the possible composition of the scum teams? Scum want town to forget that vampires are cultists, or that cultists can be mafia, or that hunters can hunt things not in the game.

Are you really persisting with this bizarre line? C'mon. Just admit spending a non-trivial amount of time informing the town what the threats could be is not actually a scum tell.

I feel like you're bothered by this more than you should be.

I have tried to figure out where you're coming from on IcyTea31 and juicebox to a lesser extent but I still find myself struggling to see things from your perspective.



Picking lurkers is not a bland or easy read.

How am I aiming for low-fruits? Hell, at this rate anyone I feel are scum could be 'low-fruits'. Lucky and Secret are playing in a way completely different then what I saw them do in Vengeful - even if they're busy, Secret's been half-assing his posts, and Lucky has barely interacted. Maybe they've both suddenly gotten busy after signing up, but I don't believe that.

You've responded to the substance of what Toaster is poking you for but not for what I'm poking you for. I don't actually care much about the content of your reads lists and I'm pretty meh on going after easy targets.

I said you were acting, i.e. not being authentic, like you were trying to adhere to a meta but didn't know quite how to pull it off. Your vehement vote on 4maskwolf and your quick reversal, and then you acknowledging criticisms levelled against your play without much complaint. It's hard for me to believe that you are genuine with your posts earlier in the day.

Calling somebody inauthentic is a very serious accusation, which is why you're my second top suspect after Secretdorf/Persus13, and you would be my top if I didn't feel that pairing was more blatant.

Jim - You've recently unvoted, but haven't put a new vote down. Who are you leaning to vote on, and why?

You, because you're not authentic.

But actually Persus13.
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IcyTea31

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Re: Supernatural 10 - Day 1 begins
« Reply #378 on: February 26, 2021, 04:56:18 am »

BluarianKnight

Icytea - Your recent post shows your dislike of NQT's 'smokescreen' posts, when your own posts can easily be claimed the same type of smokescreening. Unless I misunderstand, your posts are just about as cluttered and hard to read as his at points, so could you elaborate?
If you read through those posts of mine you linked, you realize I actually question people and analyze their words in them. By smokescreen I mean a post that's busywork meant to hide a scum player's lack of scumhunting. NQT's scumteam speculation post excuses a time investment that wasn't spent on something useful, but on providing information which is largely useless right now and which would have taken far less time to retrieve once it became relevant and we knew what to look for. It looks like a lot of effort spent to help the town, but it isn't.



Vector, Luckyowl, webadict

Everyone, and I do mean everyone, I want your opinion on this.
I agree with you, Luckyowl's plan makes no sense for town. Lynching someone they suspect is town, counting on the revive to go through (if LO is town, why wouldn't scum try to prevent it, now that they know about it?), and counting on the revive to not change web's alignment. From a scum point of view it makes far more (any) sense.

Webadict's main objection to lynching them seems to be disbelief that there could be a scum priest, which makes me giggle at a little irony:
It's highly relevant whether 4mask is telling the truth, what role a fakeclaiming Tric could actually have, what kind of third parties we're facing, the fact that scum teams can have town roles etc. Giving people this information up front can stop a lot of misconceptions.
I called this out because I thought these things were trivial to check, but apparently NQT was right on that last part at least.



Jim Groovester

Vector: Low-profile play implies something to hide. Scum-or-cop. Readslist looks like town PoV.

Low profile? What?

I get no impression Vector is trying to avoid anything.
At the time I posted that, Vector's interaction with me was very one-sided with boring answers, giving me a "don't look at me" impression. And their other posts were similarly not attention-catching. By now, Vector is clearly feeling much more secure, which leaves me wondering about the change, but I'm happy to let them be town for today at least.

Quote
If I read this right this is actually an indirect attack on notquitethere?
In a way. NQT is my top suspicion of the veteran players. I think considering an infolynch to confirm him does indeed imply that I want him checked.
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IcyTea31

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Re: Supernatural 10 - Day 1 begins
« Reply #379 on: February 26, 2021, 04:59:55 am »

Vector

None of ICTs attacks have had much heft.

How 'bout shooting IcyTea31?
I suppose a vote demands a response, but I think to this my best response is to just keep playing and find an angle of "attack with much heft". Unless you have a more specific complaint?
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notquitethere

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Re: Supernatural 10 - Day 1 begins
« Reply #380 on: February 26, 2021, 08:02:42 am »

Just a quick thing while I'm working on other stuff:

- LuckyOwl PR claim
- Tric hard chainsawing LuckyOwl doesn't make sense for Tric being scum and LO town. If LO is town, Tric is probably also town.
A true PR claim doesn't mean Lucky isn't scum, as scum can have town roles (as I already pointed out in my big post) and a scum priest is de facto converter. It's less informative to kill Lucky now he's claimed, that much is true. But it says nothing about Tric's possible alignment.
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notquitethere

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Re: Supernatural 10 - Day 1 begins
« Reply #381 on: February 26, 2021, 08:34:55 am »

I have to ask myself: would a town!Luckyowl come up with this webadict lynch-and-revive scheme? Yes, possibly. It's not a good plan, but it's a plan an isolated town player who wants to use their ability to great effect might come up with.



4mask, you've got 87 posts in this game but I don't see a reads list. Hit me with what you got.
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ToonyMan

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Re: Supernatural 10 - Day 1 begins
« Reply #382 on: February 26, 2021, 08:58:24 am »

PFP

I don't like it. My take is that Lucky was staying passive because he didn't know how to act in this game. Because he's playing a game he's never properly played before.

There's some older questions (Vector, BK) that I'll get back to when I can type better.
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4maskwolf

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Re: Supernatural 10 - Day 1 begins
« Reply #383 on: February 26, 2021, 09:12:09 am »

4mask, you've got 87 posts in this game but I don't see a reads list. Hit me with what you got.
Word.

Circle of Trust:
Toonyman
IcyTea
Jim Groovester

Not going here today:
webadict
Vector
Toaster

Can die:
NQT
Lucky
TricMagic

Wolves here:
juicebox
Persus
BluarianKnight

I'm at work so I don't have time to write my full thoughts for all of them, but if anyone has questions on why someone is where they are I'd be happy to answer them.

4maskwolf

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Re: Supernatural 10 - Day 1 begins
« Reply #384 on: February 26, 2021, 09:13:53 am »

I suppose I should probably put them in order since I have an order:

Toony
Jim
Icy

Toaster
Vector
web

Lucky
Tric
NQT

juicebox
Persus
Blue

Mephansteras

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Re: Supernatural 10 - Day 1 begins
« Reply #385 on: February 26, 2021, 10:00:51 am »

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
BluarianKnight: 4maskwolf, Toaster
juicebox: notquitethere
Luckyowl: IcyTea31, ToonyMan
Persus13: Jim Groovester, TricMagic, webadict
Toaster: Vector
webadict: Luckyowl

Day ends ~5pm Pacific Today. You have ~10 hours.
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TricMagic

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Re: Supernatural 10 - Day 1 begins
« Reply #386 on: February 26, 2021, 10:17:53 am »

Luckyowl, are you genuinely busy somewhere else this week? I want to hear from you.


yeah, I work during the day and finish in the evening. So I'm mostly not here for a good while. When the game started on weds I came back to 7 pages of nonsense rvs and memefeast post that I didn't wish to give a 'read' on those sort  of nonsense so I went off to play some M&B:2. Here I am and now it seems I'm up the chopping block. So I'll laid out a proposal. I am the priest and I think we should lynch webadict. Mainly for two reason. If he is scum, then we just outted a pretty terrifying scum player, if he is town then I can rez him at night bringing him back into the game as a more powerful confirmed town. It's a win-win in all account. A dead scum! Web is great and a confirmed town! web who was brought from the dead is even better.

Damn it lucky. What's the point of revealing such when you are likely to end up dead because of it.. Granted, this is something I could pull too if there were protective roles, but I'd try to avoid needing to till day 2.
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TricMagic

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Re: Supernatural 10 - Day 1 begins
« Reply #387 on: February 26, 2021, 10:58:32 am »

After reading Jim's post, I spotted something. lurk lurk lurk

Looking over the lurker tracker and rereading previous posts, NQT has jumped way up in my suspicions for today, and still going after me this late.

That said, Persus still hasn't done anything to make up for Secretdorf. NQT is likely to be next on the list of people to lynch for me. I also don't quite trust Lucky's reveal and latest posts yet, but that is mostly cause it is out of my town meta for them, underdeveloped as it is. Though as Lucky has said before there are apparently similarities between our play. I still think both of us being scum would result in a weird game if it ever happened.
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notquitethere

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Re: Supernatural 10 - Day 1 begins
« Reply #388 on: February 26, 2021, 11:45:47 am »

Sentiment Visualisations
Here's a graphic I through together accurate to the reads players gave as of my last post (so it doesn't include 4mask's updated reads). The lines represent mutual feeling, so a strong town read from one person and a null read from the other can average out to a mild town read.

Spoiler: Mutual Feeling (click to show/hide)

Here's a simpler visualisation with just the stronger feelings:


I probably shouldn't have bothered putting 4mask in as basically everyone agrees he's probably not town but probably not on a scum team.

Groupings

In order of most mutually friendly, to least:

Veteran Gang - Toony, Web, Vector, Jim all like each other.
Usual Suspects - NQT and Secret/Persus like each other and have a handful of positive sentiments, but experience mutual animosity with many.
3rd Party - 4mask vouches for various veterans, and is tolerated by almost everyone so far.
Hangers-on - Toaster and Juicebox both like each other and have one positive link each with the Veterans, and then a lot of negative sentiment beyond that.
Iced Out - Icy Tea has two friends among the Veterans, with bad blood among many others.
Weak Links - Bluarian and Tric each have only one positive link and many detractors.
Pariah - There's no positive sentiment to or from Luckyowl.

Analysis
OK, but what about any of this is alignment indicative? I'm not sure! While scum absolutely do distance one another, on D1, we wouldn't expect any scum team member to necessarily be completely friendless. So that speaks to Lucky's isolation. The mutually reinforcing Veteran group is, I suspect, mostly due to them liking each other from previous games and may well break down in future games. But it's highly unlikely that they're all scum, as scum tend to have a modicum of plausible deniability about their linkages.

There's a lot of residual suspicion around both Toaster and Juice and they like each other. I can't say that that in itself is suspicious as Blue-NQT and NQT-Secret have a similar pattern. Still, I think there might be something worth looking for here.

Conclusions
- I no longer support a Lucky lynch, there's too much mutual hostility for them to be a good team candidate.
- I'll definitely be reviewing this web as flips come out. And if it feels useful, I might make an updated one on D2 as positions change.
- It might be interesting to do an opposite version of this visualisation process, looking at players who are mutually meh about each other.

Spoiler: Method (click to show/hide)



Toaster, Jim, I don't think either of you have given a definitive reads list though you have each scattered your impressions. Care to enlighten us?
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TricMagic

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Re: Supernatural 10 - Day 1 begins
« Reply #389 on: February 26, 2021, 11:56:17 am »

A lot ado about others, but little from yourself. What is your readlist right now NQT? And saying you no longer support a LO lynch doesn't mean much when you've been voting juice for a while.
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