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[webadict]

NQT's entire analysis of me basically feels like it's lacking any kind of actual analysis based on his knowledge of my previous play and is just the most clinical possible analysis in order to read my claim as legitimate in hopes of getting me on his good side.

Are people seriously suspecting you? That's incredibly silly. There's no point right now.

What's going on is I'm not explaining myself very well.

NQT entered the thread with a vote on my and accusing me of being an SK. This feels like an acknowledgement of my meta, as back in the days I played with him a lot that was absolutely something I would have done. But what's been bothering me throughout the day is that his first thought was that I was SK, not Mafia. Because that same meta knowledge that would lead to "4mask might actually claim survivor as an SK" should absolutely have lead to "4mask might actually claim survivor as mafia" because that's absolutely something I would have done. He's seen it before, when I claimed martyr as a member of the mafia team. So the fact that his first thought was "SK or survivor" and not "Mafia or survivor" feels like he came into the game knowing for a fact I wasn't mafia, so his knee-jerk reaction was "is this an SK?"

So... You have level 0 suspects, but level 3 metaplays against NQT? Or is this like level 5? It's stuff like this that makes people think you're a wolf.

I'll be honest, I started writing this up but got busy after I saw Blue's reads. But, like... Blue's reads... Ugh. I'm not entirely sure where their thought process changed, but I'm moving them down to null for it. I don't really know what part I like the least. Is it how they Townlean juicebox and scumlean Secretdorf and Lucky for similar play? Is it the disorganized scumteam comment? Hm.
The 4mask read is fine, though, that one makes sense. But that doesn't help find scum.

ToonyMan is silly for thinking that's a scumslip from Blue, Toony can do better than that. It's just too easy to make that mistake. Go for the reads, not the silly mistakes.
Toaster... I also feel is now scumlean. I agree with their reading on Blue, but Toaster's attacks don't feel focused. Also, they're still going after TricMagic, which is a silly move. What's their endgoal? Why does it feel like they're letting some people off easily, but going hard on Tric, who is consistently scumread in every game? Tsk tsk. Ugh, Toaster going at Jim??? No, no way Jim is scum.

ToonyMan still looking Town... What do? ToonyMan too good to elim on Day 1 ever. Need to learn tells better.

Jim Groovester... Can't argue with their play. I put in Town. Not a lot of posts, but the ones that exist? Good. Going after TricMagic for legit reasons, so they have a reason to be suspicious of them. Going after Blue for legit reasons. Attempting to figure out NQT. Attempting to decipher what's happening between Vector and I. This feels solidly Town!Jim. I was gonna say "but", but there is no "but". I'm willing to say more Town than ToonyMan. Unseated by Jim again...

Boom, final assessments:

Toaster, moved down to scumlean.
BluarianKnight moved down to null.
Jim Groovester, moved up to TownREAD.
Obviously, Secretdorf down in the scumlean, but willing to change this one to Luckyowl as well.
Oh right, Luckyowl can be scumlean.
Vector can stay in scumread, not going to be surprised when they don't post reads, but poke poke poke, here's what you've wanted Vector, you want me to poke the bear. If I hold my hands over my head, I'll look bigger than I am! Actually, maybe I will be surprised, that'd be nice, Vector you are a nice person. Wow, I'm really tired.
Uggggh, ToonyMan knows their in Townlean, they could probably discotheque on us and I'd begrudgingly not vote them until Tomorrow.
notquitethere I'm will to move up out of null. I actually didn't see their read list until Toony posted it. Actually, I noticed they have Vector as Town and me as scum, so that's completely wrong. Even more actually, wow, I hate 70% of their reads. NQT, you are so wrong it hurts... Buuuuuuuuuuut... I'm still willing to put them in null. But seriously, you need better reads if you're putting Secretdorf next to Jim. Like, I get reading TricMagic as scummy because it's the default mode for TricMagic, but like, no? Am I the only one around here that can read TricMagic as Town? Ugh, I just don't know.
IcyTea31... Yeah, okay, I know I didn't read anything new from them, but I had to reassess them just in case. I'll keep them at the bottom of Townlean, I'm okay with that. I think voting them is silly today.
juicebox, stay in the scumzone.
4maskwolf, obviously stay where you at. Well, I mean technically you doing pretty alright for now, so I guess you're basically Town-enough that it's likke you're a scumlean but you know what I mean.

I'm still mad at NQT's reads, they are all sorts of wrong.

PPE: Well, look at that, Vector did post. TricMagic, wrong. IcyTea31, wrong(ish). Toony more likely scum than Toaster, wrong. NQT... Okay, maybe fair, can't fault Vector for that one, NQT has one of the wrost readslist out of all the good players here. I think the attack on NQT is wrong, but the suspect isn't. Blue as SCUMTIER??? Nah, that's wrong, Vector's only doing that to rile me up, they're a wily scamp at best.

Eh, could've been worse. At least they moved their vote, but their FoS game needs work.

[webadict]

... Just pretend that last post was structured and not the result of me being sleep-deprived and potentially sick. I'm gonna sleep, see ya.

[notquitethere]

Vector

notquitethere - NQT, you have a fair point about expectations of analysis and being in a no-win situation, but I also recall that as scum you have a habit of analyzing the setup over interactions; in the recent BYOR, you said "I'll get to it D2," whereas in Skynet's game, you made sure to have something even when, with your own style, you admittedly take time to get things rolling.

I think you're forgetting that I was technically scum in the Skynet game. Yeah, canonically Sarah Connor is the hero, and I felt heroic going up against everyone, but I wasn't town in that game. Do you think my posts after posting the info post have been low in interaction?

Also, you're currently voting ICT, but as far as I can tell the only reason why that's happening is because ICT called you out (for reasons you disagree with, but whatever).

I'm voting them because their line of attack was bizarre and wholly fabricated, a complete nonsense-tier case. Someone asked if this was a pressure vote or a real vote: it's pressure that could become a lynching vote depending on Icy's next move.

I guess I'll follow up with a couple of questions:

1. What do you think of the rest of ICT's play so far this game?
2. If ICT is scum, who else do you think is on the team?
3. OK, and the vision test: who is scummier, Blue or juicebox? And why?

1. Fine. Nothing outstanding but mostly compatible with being town. Feels a bit "correct play" orientated, bit by the numbers. But on D1 without any info, that's forgivable to an extent. Ball has to get rolling somehow. 2. Any relationship speculation I did now would be worthless, there isn't enough information yet. 3. Juicebox is completely reactive, low profile, no pressure. Scum or weak town. Blue is paying attention and pushing, but their play feels a bit... telegraphed. On balance, Juicebox.

Jim see above regarding IcyTea

Juicebox that's a cute vote but vote for someone you actually have a case on.

Everyone, LuckyOwl doesn't even want to phone it in right now. Straight up open lurking. I don't know how to take that. If scum!Lucky, I'm sure their team would coach against them doing that but I'm also sure that Lucky wouldn't read closely or act upon anything in a quicktopic.

Not liking how people are wagoning Secret who doesnt have time to give the game right now and has replaced out, over players who are in the game and refuse to do any scum hunting.

Every D1 there's the easy lynch that town can fall into by default and the scum can sit back on their laurels and get easy progress. Today I'm convinced that default target is Secret. Structurally it doesn't feel right. Everyone knows I've said this before in previous games and I was right before about this. But if you don't think Secret is the easy lynch that scum are happy with, then which current lynch candidate is it?

Web, it's D1, I'm sure I'll hate my reads too by D2 when I have something more solid to work from, but I'm standing by for now.

[Vector]

@NQT: I had a whole post typed out and then I got logged out, so I'm gonna make this short.

I'm trying to compare/contrast your behavior in the BYOR vs. Skynet/Mostly Vanilla. I know you were scum in Skynet, and in Skynet you were focused on the setup and made sure to look like you were taking an active role. In BYOR, you just said "yeah, I'll get rolling later."

Now, I recognize that this is a vote which is on the surface seeming to punish you for pro-town behavior (or at least the illusion of it): "you're scummy because you're more active than normal." There's a little more to it than that, but I want to recognize the situation.

I have more stuff I want to ask you, but that is going to wait on conversation from ICT.



Web, I hope you feel better soon...

[notquitethere]

Vector
Okay I see the point you're making now and I get the reasoning (scum!nqt tried to be good town, town!nqt was content to wait until d2). But you're forgetting how D1 of that BYOR turned out. Sure, I gave myself a bit of breathing room, saying I'd get rolling on D2, but I actually stepped up my game, and tried to push an alternative wagon on a player who actually turned out to be scum. Being actively engaged and resisting sleepwalking into easy town deaths is exactly what I'm trying to do with the pushback against this Secret wagon

And look, moreover, as a player should I try to always be playacting the role of how I was in previous games to satisfy people's meta read? I can only take this game on it's own terms.

[Jim Groovester]

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
BluarianKnight:  IcyTea31
IcyTea31: notquitethere, TricMagic
Luckyowl: Secretdorf, ToonyMan
Secretdorf: webadict 4maskwolf BluearianKnight Jim Glory Days Groovester
TricMagic: Toaster
notquitethere: juicebox Vector

Secretdorf is the lazy lynch

Who's the smart choice then?

The day ends tomorrow evening which isn't that much time to figure this out, especially for productive members of society like myself.

In fact I expect not to be around when the deadline rolls by.

Secretdorf - replacing out so idgaf. I hated the readlist but they're replacing out. I haven't figured out yet what being jittery says about their alignment.

Slots up for replacement can be scum.

[notquitethere]

NQT's Unofficial Vote Count

Spoiler: Previous count (click to show/hide)

BluarianKnight: 4maskwolf, IcyTea31
IcyTea31: BluarianKnight, notquitethere, TricMagic*
Luckyowl: Secretdorf, ToonyMan
Secretdorf: webadict
TricMagic: Toaster
webadict: Vector

This is a mod error, meph missed Tric's vote on Secret because it was buried in a colourful reads list.

BluarianKnight: IcyTea31 [1]
IcyTea31: notquitethere [1]
Luckyowl: Secretdorf, ToonyMan [2]
Secretdorf: webadict, TricMagic, 4maskwolf, BluarianKnight, Jim [5]
TricMagic: Toaster [1]
notquitethere: juicebox, Vector [2]
Content to let mafia win: LuckyOwl [1]

- Icy on Blue is fine.
- NQT on Icy will need revisiting before day end, but I'm obviously inclined to think justified for now.
- Secret and Toony are fine to want to lynch Lucky.
- I don't like the Secret wagon one bit. My educated guess is at least 40% of the wagoners aren't town. 4mask we know, and then maybe Tric?
-Toaster is fine to suspect Tric.
-Juice has no case, is just being obvscum. Vector is playing 4d meta read chess, but I suspect they will come around.
-Lucky is the worst (no offense LO, I think you're swell and I'm pleased to have you take part in this game and play with us, but you are also the worst). But the thing is, I could see a town!lucky make the same play, unfortunately. I'm inclined to say wait until D2. Absolutely do not let Lucky decide lylo.

Mephansteras, I think you missed this vote from Tric.

Jim, do you think Lucky and Juicebox are less scummy than Secret?

[Vector]

And look, moreover, as a player should I try to always be playacting the role of how I was in previous games to satisfy people's meta read? I can only take this game on it's own terms.

I know that, and that's why I said:

Now, I recognize that this is a vote which is on the surface seeming to punish you for pro-town behavior (or at least the illusion of it): "you're scummy because you're more active than normal." There's a little more to it than that, but I want to recognize the situation.

I have more stuff I want to ask you, but that is going to wait on conversation from ICT.

No, you don't have to play into your own meta (obviously). But I don't want to let you slide like I did the last ... few ... times. I'll get more into it when ICT shows up, as mentioned.

Slots up for replacement can be scum.

I know. Haha, coming from you: believe me, I know. I agree that Secretdorf is not looking great, but I thought I could read them and then spent the entire last game I played with them tunneling them into the floor while missing that NQT was scum.

Thing is, I think they're an easy lynch. I don't necessarily think that the people who want them gone are scum, but on the Easy Lynch Little Data List (basically the policy lynch list) I prefer to go for LuckyOwl. I don't think they've ever gotten taken out D1 and I am dead tired of them deciding LYLO. Juicebox, at the least, is learning.

Like, let me put it this way. Do I think the scumteam is secret/lucky/juicebox? Actually, no. Problem here though is that it's going to be hard to play through the end of the game with all 3 of them alive. If we have to mislynch today, which is looking likely without any good counterwagons and just, a lot of D1 nonsense, we should trim the tree a little.

And ... honestly, since we could get persus or heydude replacing in, and I can't actually read Secret off of, what, 4 posts, I'd rather take out the person who hasn't asked for a replace and has no apparent desire to play their wincon (whatever that is).

[Secretdorf]

As I have not been replaced yet, I'll say that I am being lynched due to thinking I am lurking scum, but I am not. Scum are jumping on me because I am not defending myself and townies think I am the perfect lynch target. I would have claimed but I am not because scum will know how to kill me which is bad for town. Luckyowl's probably a far better target than I but he is on the scumteam so scum are not fueling a lynch on him. I think NQT is probably town because theyre not going for the easy lynch.

As my last words, I'll say tricmagic is most likely scum but I am not voting for them because other people think they are town and also  they could be lying as town because their claim is simply a lie and I don't know why they are being townread by some people.

Luckyowl's play so far in  this game is almost opposite to their town play. Why is that not clear to people? When they are town, they are scumhunting and not just keep saying they are town. I at least tried to post my thoughts on the game but the large amount of content is almost impossible for me to read and properly process and analyze due to already less time I have due to RL. Many of my reads so far are slightly influenced by other reads which I considered genuine. Therefore, I'll say that any town player voting me should immediately unvote me because if you dont, then persus or heydude will likely have to claim which will be not good for town. As an alternative lynch, I'll propose luckyowl or tricmagic. Oh and toonyman's probably town too.

[IcyTea31]

Everyone

That's interesting, but for clarity, I'm curious about your general reads. You've been following up on RVS questions for a while.

ICT, could we have your readslist when you're around next? And your general impression of the current conflicts?

webadict: Active scumhunting wants me to give a town read, but my gut screams at that.
Vector: Low-profile play implies something to hide. Scum-or-cop. Readslist looks like town PoV.
TricMagic: I still can't make sense out of Tric's play. The no-power claim is a lie, they're far too enthusiastic to have rolled something actually uninteresting. Lynchable.
ToonyMan: Content mostly seen second-hand, but matches town!Toony in meta.
BluarianKnight: New-ish, townish but oddly scatterbrained and not fully into it. On the edge of lynchable, need to analyze further, especially as I don't know their meta.
Luckyowl: Not enough content. Lurking as a conscious choice. Lynchable.
Secretdorf: Not enough content. Very odd reads. Lynchable.
4maskwolf: I'm willing to trust the survivor claim for now, just to save effort.
Toaster: Active scumhunting; townish.
juicebox: Low-effort play. Somewhat scummy. Lynchable.
Jim Groovester: Good posts, if few in number. No real complaints.
notquitethere: Provided currently irrelevant information instead of starting scumhunting early. Improved since then but still on the edge of lynchable.

As you can see, I don't have very much certainty yet on reads, which is why I was holding off on making a list.

As for the current conflicts, I think the Vector/webadict spat is genuine and unlikely to be w/w, the rest have points below.


notquitethere

What are we supposed to take away from the scumteam speculation? Wouldn't it have been better to do it on, say, D2 or D3 when we've had some flavour hints and possibly a dead scum team member, rather than on D1 when we don't? This early, it mostly strikes me as a distraction and a waste of time.

I'm terribly sorry I provided useful information critical for playing this game as town a day earlier than strictly required. I could die this night and then how would I post this useful information? Who else is going to do the homework? I'm trying to right an information asymmetry between players that have played this game (who could be scum) and everyone else.

But look, let's follow this thought of yours. What event is scum!NQT distracting us from?

From noticing that scum!NQT had not been participating in the early scumhunting, and if the town joins in on speculating currently-irrelevant mechanics, from scumhunting ourselves. You didn't answer the question: what use is that post for town on this Day, and why was it more critical to spend time and effort on it than on your early participation?

Secretdorf: I like their reads post; looking forward to seeing more of him
Tric: I don't agree with their reads at all.

For convenience: SD,Tric.

What do you like about SD's reads? They disagree with yours on several points, and only have explanations for the reads on two players, webadict and BluarianKnight.

Meanwhile, you say you disagree with Tric's reads, but they agree with SD's reads on webadict and BluarianKnight. Which of Tric's reads do you disagree with the most?


BluarianKnight

To the scumhunt;

There's a difference between asking pointed questions, and asking loaded questions - and you were asking the latter. It didn't feel like you were scumhunting - but trying to get any reason to twist folks words. That's at least my feeling on the matter - and it's why I put my vote to you at the beginning.

Of course RVS questions are loaded. They're conversation-starters, and making them twisty enhances the amount of thought people put into them. True scumhunting can't begin before a conversation does.

Also, as for the buddying thing;

BluarianKnight: I'll be completely honest in saying I've been watching them in Vengeful, but I'm very much a fan of this Blue Knight. I think they're a solid Townlean in spite of ToonyMan and 4maskwolf because they're defo Town.

This is what I meant. It was only a short scroll above the post you quoted from me.

So, another question to you, IcyTea - did you miss Web's post, or purposely ignore it?

Missed, probably. I generally work with quoted posts in isolation, focusing on whomever I'm talking with. Also, now that I'm looking at it, you should have specified that snippet; I don't generally consider flattery buddying, unless it's directed at the target and not spoken aside them. For the original question, I don't think it's massively telling, especially since you were able to notice it. Webadict seems to have read your past games, and would probably go about pocketing you in another way as scum.

juicebox - Low postcount, but I think he's not lurking or scumming - just not the big-post sort, which isn't bad. Town to me for now.

Luckyowl - My read from previous research and games with him is completely off to the guy I see now - You're lurking, and from what I can tell for no good reason. I've got a decent guess you're trying to stay under the radar for some reason, which leads me to believe scumlean.

Why is juicebox town with a low amount of content, but Luckyowl isn't? With the emphasis your readslist puts on slips, wouldn't it be natural to look at the ones who haven't given the chance to make slips?


Luckyowl

I am present, and again I am town. I won't be saying much since I hate day 1 and would only make myself look scummy eventhough I am town.

Not saying much is one of the scummiest things you can do. Even if you don't think you have much insightful analysis to make, please at least participate in the conversation so people can get a read on you. Least you could do is say who you think is the scummiest and who the most trustworthy.


Jim Groovester

Is there much value in asking questions more or less to the tune of 'you already fucked up, how do you dig yourself out of the hole?'?

Not much beyond seeing how far ahead juicebox is thinking, RVS fare.

Firstly I said funnest, as in, most fun, not funniest. And of the players in the game I would probably pick woobadooba, ToonyMan, and Toaster.

Boring answer, but fair.

As for funniest, I would spend the game converting LuckyOwl over and over again even if he was unconvertable and even if the conversion was successful.

Is this wishful thinking, or do you actually suspect scum has a conversion mechanic?

[juicebox]

unvote

After going over the thread, I'm going to move Jim and Vector into my townlean pile.

After looking back on the Vector/Web interactions, Vector seem to me to be trying to feel Web out and get a read on his alignment. I think they made a genuine observation the Web was playing off town meta and was making an attempt to determine whether that was due to Web's alignment being different.

Webadict on the other hand, while I'm not ready to put him in the town pile based on that interaction, I'm sure if he's scum either.

Jim, while he hasn't posted much, has made some decent points. in response to his question to me, It's partly because I believe Town!Tric would make that claim, and partly because I think there's a decent possibility that there may be a VT in this game.

[juicebox]

Starting to lean town on Toaster as well. His posts have a town quality to them.

Secretdorf's attempt to shift votes onto seem rather desperate to me. Was going to give them the benefit of the doubt since they were asking for a replacement, but I think I'd be comfortable voting them now.

[TricMagic]

TricMagic:

TricMagic:

And there is a reason I tied those two.

Care to say what it is?


You're talking a lot but not saying much.

And now you're ignoring me, scum.

I was. And this reaction at least makes it so I can put you in town-lean.

My reasoning is that their act could be Icytea pushing dorf simply cause they have to to look town. But the two of them still work together. It can be noted that the switch from joking about people being Mafia to townlean in the other readlist is a reason. But nothing I've seen from IcyTea has removed their first impression from me. Tying them together isn't improbable either, with SD being a low poster and Icytea taking advatage of it for town points. Webadict did that to me one time, though different circumstances.

I'm not in favor of a Blue lynch though, and would remind them to read their posts for errors in the words like that. There are better lynches in my opinion.

[4maskwolf]

I'm not in favor of a Blue lynch though, and would remind them to read their posts for errors in the words like that. There are better lynches in my opinion.

I take it you read blue town, then? What's brought you to that interpretation?

[4maskwolf]

NQT's entire analysis of me basically feels like it's lacking any kind of actual analysis based on his knowledge of my previous play and is just the most clinical possible analysis in order to read my claim as legitimate in hopes of getting me on his good side.

Are people seriously suspecting you? That's incredibly silly. There's no point right now.

What's going on is I'm not explaining myself very well.

NQT entered the thread with a vote on my and accusing me of being an SK. This feels like an acknowledgement of my meta, as back in the days I played with him a lot that was absolutely something I would have done. But what's been bothering me throughout the day is that his first thought was that I was SK, not Mafia. Because that same meta knowledge that would lead to "4mask might actually claim survivor as an SK" should absolutely have lead to "4mask might actually claim survivor as mafia" because that's absolutely something I would have done. He's seen it before, when I claimed martyr as a member of the mafia team. So the fact that his first thought was "SK or survivor" and not "Mafia or survivor" feels like he came into the game knowing for a fact I wasn't mafia, so his knee-jerk reaction was "is this an SK?"

So... You have level 0 suspects, but level 3 metaplays against NQT? Or is this like level 5? It's stuff like this that makes people think you're a wolf.

-shrug- If I'm not wolf I can't choose what reads I have. Lacking TMI and attempting to townside means my reads are whatever catches my attention and makes me think "this is a wolf" or "this is a town".