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[anewaname]

Items can become stuck inside wheelbarrows when the job is interrupted (it happens when wheelbarrows move outside burrow limitations, when a dwarf drops items due to water depth, and due to combat interruptions).

When a dwarf takes the wheelbarrow, they could dump the existing contents of the wheelbarrow.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Or just file a bug report...

[Pillbo]

there are bug reports - http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6074

can't a forum user make a suggestion on how to fix a bug without snide comments?

[Shonai_Dweller]

there are bug reports - http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6074

can't a forum user make a suggestion on how to fix a bug without snide comments?

If the bug is fixed, and items no longer become stuck, why would this suggestion be needed? As a suggestion for Dfhack, sure it's a nice method for working around a bug. But, just fix the bug.

[FantasticDorf]

there are bug reports - http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6074

can't a forum user make a suggestion on how to fix a bug without snide comments?

If the bug is fixed, and items no longer become stuck, why would this suggestion be needed? As a suggestion for Dfhack, sure it's a nice method for working around a bug. But, just fix the bug.

I dont know, i side with pillbo and anewaname on this one. Its a constructive use of a justification in the suggestion format, and also anewaname is a well known member of the community so it to all outwards appearances appears sincere in the knowledge they could instead take it solely but here allows them some freedom to explain their own fixes.

Maybe the OP could be a bit longer in the explanation and details.

- But sometimes, just saying "it does x, please don't make it do x anymore" is as valid a suggestion as ever in the most plainative ways.

A happy medium is to already construct a bug report then attach a url linking to it, but that shouldnt really have to be mandatory (it helps at least). Its moreso the reverse when you have first-time mantis users publishing suggestion-bug reports being directed towards the suggestion forum, and some of your replies seems to be intent on batting it back, if i was a new player i wouldnt know what to do and i would probably give up on reporting on it in the first place.

[anewaname]

Regarding me, I might be well-known for many posts or too many posts, including some quite bad posts, but that wasn't why I posted the suggestion....

It doesn't seem to be a bug that items are left in the wheelbarrow when a dwarf drops it, the dwarf had a reason to drop it. But when I need to use a wheelbarrow and there is stuff already in it, I dump that stuff out.

[Maximum Spin]

Regarding me, I might be well-known for many posts or too many posts, including some quite bad posts, but that wasn't why I posted the suggestion....

It doesn't seem to be a bug that items are left in the wheelbarrow when a dwarf drops it, the dwarf had a reason to drop it. But when I need to use a wheelbarrow and there is stuff already in it, I dump that stuff out.

I would argue that that makes it a bug. Dwarves are not doing the sensible thing in a situation where the sensible thing is obvious, that's a bug.

[NW_Kohaku]

It doesn't seem to be a bug that items are left in the wheelbarrow when a dwarf drops it, the dwarf had a reason to drop it. But when I need to use a wheelbarrow and there is stuff already in it, I dump that stuff out.

I would argue that that makes it a bug. Dwarves are not doing the sensible thing in a situation where the sensible thing is obvious, that's a bug.
[/quote]

There are many things that are sensible and realistic that do not happen in Dwarf Fortress currently not so much because it is a "bug" but because there are elements of the game not yet coded.  Unless you want to argue that feature incompleteness counts as a bug.  For example, dwarves did not recognize fire or react to being on fire for a long time, and even now, it's rather incomplete as reactions go, as burning dwarves do not stop, drop, and roll or otherwise take action to save themselves.

The question is more whether this is an action that Toady would have obviously thought of doing himself, and just isn't implemented yet, or if it is a simple and elegant solution to a problem that would still make sense even after the full features were added, and I do think anewaname makes a decent case that dwarves choosing to dump something in a wheelbarrow (or trying to deliver it to a proper stockpile if they can) is a feature worth adding that may not be something Toady considered yet, and would sidestep the worst problem of the bug.

[Maximum Spin]

Unless you want to argue that feature incompleteness counts as a bug.

I mean, yeah, it does? My definition is basically "X is expected to Y, X does not yet Y, therefore bug."

[A_Curious_Cat]

*munch* *munch*

[Starver]

What is the expected behaviour?

If I were hauling something in a barrow and was compelled to stop hauling for some reason, I might expect to leave the item in the barrow so that it was seemlessly moved onwards when I (or another soul) came to complete the haul.

If there was some sort of no-barrows zone (not currently a thing, save for transfer to minecart - but that's a destination), perhaps I'd tip it out. If wheelbarrows were saught for higher priority work then I'd expect the load tipped, prior to wheeling away.

I'd also expect a delay equivalent to maybe one pure-carry horizontal travel, upon loading (and that factored into "should I go get a barrow or not?" cost/benefit analysis, even if not a needs-abandonment right next to either source or destination), perhaps half that (rounded down) for tipping.


Not sure what a bug would be, for me, except for irrevocably-loaded barrow loads that were forevermore untouchable, and also then the barrow.

[anewaname]

Regarding me, I might be well-known for many posts or too many posts, including some quite bad posts, but that wasn't why I posted the suggestion....

It doesn't seem to be a bug that items are left in the wheelbarrow when a dwarf drops it, the dwarf had a reason to drop it. But when I need to use a wheelbarrow and there is stuff already in it, I dump that stuff out.

I would argue that that makes it a bug. Dwarves are not doing the sensible thing in a situation where the sensible thing is obvious, that's a bug.

I disagree. Sensible is...
(carrying item and attacked --> drop item)
(carrying item and drowning --> drop item)
(picking up item that contains unwanted stuff --> dump stuff out)

Anyone could "argue" that the dropping of the wheelbarrow when a dwarf reaches burrow-limitations is a bug, because dwarfs travel between burrows so they also should also be able to move wheelbarrows between burrows.

No one can "argue" that a dwarf being attacked or drowning should take the time to dump the contents, because that dwarf has something more important to do.

[Pillbo]

there are bug reports - http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6074

can't a forum user make a suggestion on how to fix a bug without snide comments?

If the bug is fixed, and items no longer become stuck, why would this suggestion be needed? As a suggestion for Dfhack, sure it's a nice method for working around a bug. But, just fix the bug.

Edit - There's nothing wrong with making a suggestion that doesn't get used, most won't.

[Maximum Spin]

No one can "argue" that a dwarf being attacked or drowning should take the time to dump the contents, because that dwarf has something more important to do.

No one did argue that. Look at the suggestion again: it's actually exactly what you said was right, that the dwarf taking the full wheelbarrow dumps it out.

there are bug reports - http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6074

can't a forum user make a suggestion on how to fix a bug without snide comments?

If the bug is fixed, and items no longer become stuck, why would this suggestion be needed? As a suggestion for Dfhack, sure it's a nice method for working around a bug. But, just fix the bug.

Why would a suggestion be needed if Toady decides to not use it? What a question. I'm not sure why an unused suggestion would 'be needed', but I'm positive your comment wasn't needed. There are several forum rules about being respectful, but none about the value of a suggestion.

• Try to make a contribution. If you like a suggestion, say why you like it and try to refine it if possible. If you don't like a suggestion, say why and be civil about it.
• Be respectful.  If you don't intend to show respect, do not post.  If there is a problem, use the "Report to moderator" button on a post in the thread.  Do not handle it on your own.
• don't be abusive or derail somebody's thread entirely.

People have different opinions on what's "respectful". Shonai's comment didn't come off as snide to me at all; meanwhile you sound quite rude, from my perspective.

[Pillbo]

People have different opinions on what's "respectful". Shonai's comment didn't come off as snide to me at all; meanwhile you sound quite rude, from my perspective.

Ok, then I apologize.