Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 20

Author Topic: Refit and Repair 2. Magna Mongadizafra, Spring, 1896, Revision&Refit Phase.  (Read 19505 times)

Madman198237

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Refit and Repair 2. Magna Mongadizafra, Pregame History Turn 5.
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2021, 11:40:03 pm »

Oh it's certainly the clear choice and naval supremacy does reduce the chance an army will be necessary...but you still need one and you cannot neglect land defense or the first blockade-running cruiser with some enemy troops will be able to do ridiculous amounts of damage for the force's actual size.
Logged
We shall make the highest quality of quality quantities of soldiers with quantities of quality.

piratejoe

  • Bay Watcher
  • Obscure References and Danmaku everywhere.
    • View Profile
Re: Refit and Repair 2. Magna Mongadizafra, Pregame History Turn 6.
« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2021, 03:15:42 am »

Magna Mongadizafra, Pregame History Turn 6.

Naturally, the Navy would be prioritized for funding, for anything the Army can do the Navy can do better. While the budget gave a decent amount of funding to the Army initially, over time due to the Navy's influence and exaggerating fears over certain neighbors, both those of the east and those of the south, more and more funding would end up going to the Navy, and in turn the Navy would use that funding to strengthen itself in the eyes of the public, it's prestige, and it's ties to the steelworking and shipbuilding industries. All while doing everything it could to ensure it maintained dominance over the two branches of the Military through using its sizable influence on the politicians in order to get more funding, which would only fuel the cycle. This ended up getting to the point where the Army was just a garrison and policing force which relied upon navy surplus equipment, while the Marines took up the role of the actual army. One might think that a rivalry would exist between the Army and the Navy, but that isn't the case, as the Army was far too weak politically to do so. Regardless, the first to be granted charge over the Navy was Giocondo Firavanti, and during his time he ensured that with the large amount of funding the Navy had that... as well as... and... were funded to ensure that the Navy was strong.
(Pick Three)

1. The Shipyards and slipways dedicated to the Navy were the best. Naturally, this meant a number of fairly sizable grants would be given to the research of methods of producing ships far faster than normal, along with the industry to make such happen. Naturally, this payed off quite well and resulted in a large number of ships, both of the Navy and that of more civilian nature being produced swiftly and effectively by the shipwrights of our nation.

2. Expanding the shipyards and slipways of the nation was a key and high priority in order to create larger vessels that would be worthy of the title of flagship. Naturally, this aided the civilian market as well, as the grants and new facilities and their expansion allowed the ship building corporations that owned these facilities to produce larger merchant and passenger liners that were the envy of all of South America.

3. While we have a grand and long Naval Tradition, the training of sailors is still one of the most important aspects of a navy. If our sailors aren't fully trained and ready for anything the lives of many will be put into danger along with the ships they stand upon. While the basics are already covered, more advanced aspects of sailors work is given greater attention and time in training depending on the role of a sailor on board a vessel. Needless to say, our sailors have more time to learn, but they certainly make the most of it.

4. While we have a sizable and competent Marine force, the training and expansion of our marine forces is paramount to our nations survival. By expanding the Marines and their training, we are able to make use of our budget to gain both greater prestige and power all while ensuring the Army knows it's place. With a sizable force of well trained under our direct control, nothing will stop us, and almost every victory on land and sea will be of our own doing and by our own hand.

5. While we have a good number of captains eager to go from leading fishing boats to true warships, the command of a warship is drastically different and far more stressful than any mere whaling ship or merchantman. Ensuring our Captains and officers remain calm under pressure, and know the best strategies and tactics along with crew management is paramount to keeping our ships afloat, and ensuring our enemies do the exact opposite of that.

6. All naval battles rely upon the gun and it's power. No naval battle since the age of sail has been won without cannon and gun. Naturally, ensuring all of our crews have the best gunners available is key. And our swift adoption of varying things to make gunnery easier like enemy plotting cards has done much to make our sailors crack shots. Of course, as guns got larger and more powerful, and range increased, accuracy fell. But even then, our gunners still maintain skillful shooting, and hit far more often than most others.

7. The might of our forces at sea is best shown at night, and our crews are trained to ensure that a good chunk of every day where the sea's are dark with naught but moonlight granting sight are kept as a place where our forces are just as strong as they are in the day, if not stronger. Ensuring the spotters cover their eyes before the guns fire so their eyes don't adjust to the bright light the flash of the guns give is just one of the myriad of tactics and tricks we employ to make sure our enemies fear us at night!
Logged
Battleships Hurl insults from behind thick walls, Destroyers beat up small children, Carriers stay back in the kitchen, and Cruisers are a bunch of tryhards who pretend to be loners.

Kashyyk

  • Bay Watcher
  • One letter short of a wookie
    • View Profile
Re: Refit and Repair 2. Magna Mongadizafra, Pregame History Turn 6.
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2021, 04:10:56 am »

Quote from: Navy Box
(1) More Boats 1 : Kashyyk
(1) Bigger Boats 2 : Kashyyk
() Skilled Sailors 3 :
() Skilled Marines 4 :
() Skilled Captains 5 :
(1) Skilled Gunnery 6 : Kashyyk
() Nightfighters 7 :
Logged

TricMagic

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Refit and Repair 2. Magna Mongadizafra, Pregame History Turn 6.
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2021, 08:34:20 am »

Quote from: Navy Box
(1) More Boats 1 : Kashyyk, TricMagic
(1) Bigger Boats 2 : Kashyyk, TricMagic
() Skilled Sailors 3 :
() Skilled Marines 4 :
() Skilled Captains 5 :
(1) Skilled Gunnery 6 : Kashyyk, TricMagic
() Nightfighters 7 :
Logged

Madman198237

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Refit and Repair 2. Magna Mongadizafra, Pregame History Turn 6.
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2021, 10:39:57 am »

Quote from: Navy Box
(1) More Boats 1 : Kashyyk, TricMagic
(3) Bigger Boats 2 : Kashyyk, TricMagic, Madman
() Skilled Sailors 3 :
() Skilled Marines 4 :
(1) Skilled Captains 5 : Madman
(3) Skilled Gunnery 6 : Kashyyk, TricMagic, Madman
() Nightfighters 7 :

Hear me out:
Individually superior ships that are rarely lost due to the competency of their crews and officers both at fighting and at damage control a la US Navy in WWII, relying on earlier bonuses to get us a larger navy and cover basic crew competence.

Alternatively, "good at killing ships and making them" gets us ships proportionally less able to survive as a result of crew competence and less likely to find themselves in advantageous positions because the captains are not as good.

Additionally, having purely large ships with good crews will make it functionally impossible for the colonial powers to intimidate us because they'd have to dedicate too many large ships to do so.
Logged
We shall make the highest quality of quality quantities of soldiers with quantities of quality.

Sketchykeeps

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Refit and Repair 2. Magna Mongadizafra, Pregame History Turn 6.
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2021, 11:31:56 am »

Quote from: Navy Box
(1) More Boats 1 : Kashyyk, TricMagic
(3) Bigger Boats 2 : Kashyyk, TricMagic, Madman
() Skilled Sailors 3 :
() Skilled Marines 4 :
(1) Skilled Captains 5 : Madman
(3) Skilled Gunnery 6 : Kashyyk, TricMagic, Madman
() Nightfighters 7 :

Hear me out:
Individually superior ships that are rarely lost due to the competency of their crews and officers both at fighting and at damage control a la US Navy in WWII, relying on earlier bonuses to get us a larger navy and cover basic crew competence.

Alternatively, "good at killing ships and making them" gets us ships proportionally less able to survive as a result of crew competence and less likely to find themselves in advantageous positions because the captains are not as good.

Additionally, having purely large ships with good crews will make it functionally impossible for the colonial powers to intimidate us because they'd have to dedicate too many large ships to do so.

I agree with you on switching out one of the build bonus for better captains.
However, I wonder if building ships cheaper and faster wouldn't be a better option. True, 2 big ships will usually be better than 3 smaller ones adding up to the same tonnage, but I think going for cheaper ships and, perhaps more importantly, quicker build times would compound our advantage in having an outsized naval budget. In addition to stacking cheap ships with a large ship budget, we would be able to leverage it easier, bringing in new models and replacing losses faster.

I'm not opposed to the bigger ships, but leaning into better production right now.
Logged

TricMagic

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Refit and Repair 2. Magna Mongadizafra, Pregame History Turn 6.
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2021, 11:38:09 am »

Quote from: Navy Box
(1) More Boats 1 : Kashyyk, TricMagic
(3) Bigger Boats 2 : Kashyyk, TricMagic, Madman
() Skilled Sailors 3 :
() Skilled Marines 4 :
(1) Skilled Captains 5 : Madman
(3) Skilled Gunnery 6 : Kashyyk, TricMagic, Madman
() Nightfighters 7 :

Hear me out:
Individually superior ships that are rarely lost due to the competency of their crews and officers both at fighting and at damage control a la US Navy in WWII, relying on earlier bonuses to get us a larger navy and cover basic crew competence.

Alternatively, "good at killing ships and making them" gets us ships proportionally less able to survive as a result of crew competence and less likely to find themselves in advantageous positions because the captains are not as good.

Additionally, having purely large ships with good crews will make it functionally impossible for the colonial powers to intimidate us because they'd have to dedicate too many large ships to do so.

I agree with you on switching out one of the build bonus for better captains.
However, I wonder if building ships cheaper and faster wouldn't be a better option. True, 2 big ships will usually be better than 3 smaller ones adding up to the same tonnage, but I think going for cheaper ships and, perhaps more importantly, quicker build times would compound our advantage in having an outsized naval budget. In addition to stacking cheap ships with a large ship budget, we would be able to leverage it easier, bringing in new models and replacing losses faster.

I'm not opposed to the bigger ships, but leaning into better production right now.

Skilled captains does not translate to a skilled crew though. Bigger Boats, and More of those Boats, in addition to skilled gunners equals a lot of pain for anything smaller than us. We can just shoot them till they die with the extra deck space meaning more dakka per round.

Embrace the BEEG Dakka.
Logged

Madman198237

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Refit and Repair 2. Magna Mongadizafra, Pregame History Turn 6.
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2021, 11:43:37 am »

A bigger ship can carry more, larger, longer-ranged guns and stay out of danger, they are more seaworthy and faster in bad conditions, they are individually much harder to sink or even seriously damage due to their larger and harder-to-reach internal areas providing reserve buoyancy, and they can carry a scale of armor a smaller ship cannot and therefore be yet more disproportionately resistant to damage. Oh, and they have larger crews with more hands available for damage control and the like. And, while niche, a larger ship can carry taller mast and spot targets at longer range.

Smaller ships can be in two places at once. That's...honestly about it, and we don't really need that.


Tric your point about the crew not being more skilled, while technically correct, also ignores the fact that WE ALREADY GOT BONUSES THAT IMPROVE CREW SKILL. As I said, a skilled officer corps will make certain our crews run at even higher efficiency and our maneuvers in battle are as best as possible.

Larger ships alone is a good enough advantage, we already have some fairly large amount of "more" because of the previous setup we chose.
Logged
We shall make the highest quality of quality quantities of soldiers with quantities of quality.

m1895

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Refit and Repair 2. Magna Mongadizafra, Pregame History Turn 6.
« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2021, 11:46:15 am »

Quote from: Navy Box
(1) More Boats 1 : Kashyyk, TricMagic
(4) Bigger Boats 2 : Kashyyk, TricMagic, Madman, m1895
() Skilled Sailors 3 :
() Skilled Marines 4 :
(2) Skilled Captains 5 : Madman, m1895
(4) Skilled Gunnery 6 : Kashyyk, TricMagic, Madman, m1895
() Nightfighters 7 :
Logged

Sketchykeeps

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Refit and Repair 2. Magna Mongadizafra, Pregame History Turn 6.
« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2021, 12:07:10 pm »

TBH, I was more enthused by the faster, cheaper production cycle of 1, especially in an era where tech obsolete designs quickly, than strictly moar bote. Plus it's an advantage to the entire fleet, not just capital ships
Logged

Sketchykeeps

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Refit and Repair 2. Magna Mongadizafra, Pregame History Turn 6.
« Reply #55 on: February 17, 2021, 12:10:41 pm »

Quote from: Navy Box
(2) More Boats 1 : Kashyyk, TricMagic
(5) Bigger Boats 2 : Kashyyk, TricMagic, Madman, m1895 , Sketchykeeps
() Skilled Sailors 3 :
() Skilled Marines 4 :
(3) Skilled Captains 5 : Madman, m1895, Sketchykeeps
(5) Skilled Gunnery 6 : Kashyyk, TricMagic, Madman, m1895, Sketchykeeps
() Nightfighters 7 :

That said, I hate ties and don't want to lose the captain bonus
Logged

Madman198237

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Refit and Repair 2. Magna Mongadizafra, Pregame History Turn 6.
« Reply #56 on: February 17, 2021, 12:24:51 pm »

Edit posts don't double-post if you can avoid it.
Logged
We shall make the highest quality of quality quantities of soldiers with quantities of quality.

Kashyyk

  • Bay Watcher
  • One letter short of a wookie
    • View Profile
Re: Refit and Repair 2. Magna Mongadizafra, Pregame History Turn 6.
« Reply #57 on: February 17, 2021, 03:52:29 pm »

Word of God states that the Sailor bonus is a general + to everything, rather than the +++ to Gumnery or Nightfighting that 6 and 7 gives. Knowing this, I would like to maximise our ship competency, as doing so would likely mean we're almost as good as a specialist, whilst also being good at everything else.

Quote from: Navy Box
(2) More Boats 1 : Kashyyk, TricMagic
(4) Bigger Boats 2 : TricMagic, Madman, m1895 , Sketchykeeps
(1) Skilled Sailors 3 : Kashyyk
() Skilled Marines 4 :
(4) Skilled Captains 5 : Madman, m1895, Sketchykeeps, Kashyyk
(4) Skilled Gunnery 6 : TricMagic, Madman, m1895, Sketchykeeps
() Nightfighters 7 :
Logged

piratejoe

  • Bay Watcher
  • Obscure References and Danmaku everywhere.
    • View Profile
Re: Refit and Repair 2. Magna Mongadizafra, Pregame History Turn 7.
« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2021, 04:21:03 pm »

Magna Mongadizafra, Pregame History Turn 7.

With our generous funding, we put in a lot of money into ensuring our slipways were capable of producing large and powerful ships ready to fight off any threat to our nation at sea, and all while ensuring that our captains and officers were well trained in the art of war and strategy along with our gunners given a special amount of extra training to ensure that we hit our shots far more than most others. Of course, all of this was general, and over the years they changed as technology did, but in general it lead to lions leading our men, and massive constructs of steel being able to lob shots at the enemy and hit thanks to our skillful crews. However, as time went on, curios things happened back in Italy, and over time, the nation would become one, forming the Kingdom of Italy.

1. We celebrated. While we weren't exactly part of Italy, we were still Italians at heart and were happy to see our old homeland united as one, powerful nation. It wasn't that much, but it was a simple feeling of pride. Of course, it was a kingdom, but it became constitutional one. And one easily could look past the politics of it all and be proud that our homeland now stood tall, and surely if they can do such grand things, so can we.

2. We were favorable, but mostly indifferent. It was a nice thing that our homeland had grown and become a single united country, and showed that we most certainly could do the same if we ever needed to. But, otherwise, it was more just a minor pleasant surprise for us which in time faded from the public's interest. Besides, Italy was still a kingdom...

3. We were upset. Mainly that a proper republic wasn't formed and instead a monarch took over. Of course, the hope that Italy would be ruled as a republic was arguably a slim one given how many small monarchies made up the varying parts of Italy, but it still was a sting. We had hopped better things would come of this, and they didn't. Still, it wasn't something that took up much of our time, or bothered us too much for too long.
Logged
Battleships Hurl insults from behind thick walls, Destroyers beat up small children, Carriers stay back in the kitchen, and Cruisers are a bunch of tryhards who pretend to be loners.

Kashyyk

  • Bay Watcher
  • One letter short of a wookie
    • View Profile
Re: Refit and Repair 2. Magna Mongadizafra, Pregame History Turn 7.
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2021, 04:24:29 pm »

Quote from: Italy Box
(1) Yay : Kashyyk
() Meh :
() Boo :
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 20