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Author Topic: Refit and Repair 2. Veenland, Spring, 1896, Revision&Refit Phase.  (Read 18611 times)

Iris

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Re: Refit and Repair 2. Veenland, Autumn, 1896, Design Phase.
« Reply #225 on: April 08, 2022, 12:28:30 pm »

Quote from: plan
Taking the Initiative (2): Khang36, Iris

I'm still not 100% sure this is advisable - I tossed out the plan as a way to get a discussion going - but we need to counter their cruisers. Zeerover will tide us over, but we need something that can both easily kill one of their protected cruisers and outspeed them. Turbines should make 25.5 knots achievable with plenty of space left over.
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Quote from: AseaHeru (on Discord), Monday, June 20, 2022 10:41 PM
I still want the D. The D is love, the D is life. The D is bully.
Rewind, can't keep going
My mind keeps replaying
That night when we dove in
But now I'm sinking

Khang36

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Re: Refit and Repair 2. Veenland, Autumn, 1896, Design Phase.
« Reply #226 on: April 08, 2022, 03:23:27 pm »

hmm... thinking about it more i think we should work on somthing that we might be able to get completed next turn first to better deal with the influx of battleships that magna will be reviving in the next two turns and then work on hybrid

so how about this
Quote from: mk2 armour piercing shells
with a new batch of Magna battleships soon to be completed it has been decided further improvement to our armour piercing shell will be required. work will be done to finding better steel alloys for stronger shells and caps to improve penetration against cemented steel plates, as well as adding a ballistic cap to improve flight characteristics for improved accuracy at longer ranges
Quote from: big game hunting
design
Doornhaai Mk4 Torpedo + 1 die to reroll time
revision
Stoommachinekanon
mk2 armour piercing shells

Quote from: plan
Taking the Initiative (1):Iris
big game hunting (1)Khang36
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Iris

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Re: Refit and Repair 2. Veenland, Autumn, 1896, Design Phase.
« Reply #227 on: April 08, 2022, 07:00:00 pm »

Okay, alternative plan. Since we're doing the Hybrid Kruiser next turn, I would prefer we put down the foundations for the ship this turn.

Quote from: Ship Design and Construction Review
   This project calls for a total modernization of how Veenland designs and constructs its vessels. As our ships become larger and larger, and new designs with even more capabilities are drafted, it is becoming apparent that we must overhaul our ship design and construction standards to bring them in line with the projected vessels we will be constructing during the twentieth century.

   First, the design of hulls and superstructure is evaluated to find the ideal balance between effectiveness and ease of construction. For superstructure design, care is taken to ensure that ships have plenty of room for additional capabilities to be added when discovered - one designer has mentioned the radiotelegraph as a possible new development. Additionally, hulls have been designed and tested to allow speed and high strength with the materials and construction methods available. This will set the stage for the construction of faster, longer vessels, such as future torpedo-boat destroyers, cruisers, “cruiser hunters”, and fast battleships. To aid this, tanks and basins for hydrodynamic testing of hull-form models will be constructed, allowing for the extensive proving of hull designs in miniature before they hit the slipways. This will, of course, also be integrated into the Veenland National School of the Navy’s shipbuilding program. Likewise, the metallurgy of components beyond that of armour is examined for the potential of newly developed alloys or simply new metallurgical practices to have a positive effect on the design of our vessels.

As an adjunct to the first line of improvement, an investigation into design features such as the tumblehome and sponsons, the ideal areas and mounting for the placement of secondary batteries on ships, the ideal design of masts and other superstructure elements, and other features will be carried out to find the best features for our future ships. Experience with real-world observations of the performance of the Resoluut, Zeerover, and Union (AKA Compromise) classes will aid this review.

   Second, construction methods will be modernized to allow Veenland to produce these larger, faster vessels with speed and effectiveness, including the mechanization of the shipyards. Additionally, methods of speeding up the construction of our smaller ships will be investigated. The “piecework shipbuilding” scheme, where the ship is assembled from prefabricated sections constructed in different locations, has been suggested as one way this could be achieved.

   Third, based on the capabilities of our machinery, fire control systems, and other equipment, the ideal layout in future ship designs for these components will be wargamed with the goal of maximizing survivability and minimizing weight. Attention will be given, for example, to find methods of shortening the citadel, such as the so-called “All-forward armament” scheme. With these design studies, the goal is to aid the resilience of vital components in the face of shellfire, fire, flooding, and other inclement events; as well as to evaluate the effectiveness of current passive damage control procedures. Target-ship firing tests using obsolete vessels, if they can be sourced, could be used as one method to evaluate the effectiveness of current techniques and help discover where they can be improved.

Quote from: Laying the Groundwork
Ship Design and Construction Review
Doornhaai Mk. 4 Torpedo

Quote from: Design Plan
Taking the Initiative (0)
Big Game Hunting (1): Khang36
Laying the Groundwork (1): Iris

Tiny one-line edit: With Asea's permission, added another sentence exploring new metallurgy for ships.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2022, 09:38:01 pm by Iris »
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Quote from: AseaHeru (on Discord), Monday, June 20, 2022 10:41 PM
I still want the D. The D is love, the D is life. The D is bully.
Rewind, can't keep going
My mind keeps replaying
That night when we dove in
But now I'm sinking

Aseaheru

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Re: Refit and Repair 2. Veenland, Autumn, 1896, Design Phase.
« Reply #228 on: April 11, 2022, 02:43:03 pm »

I... really think that MTBs are our best option for this turn, alongside the Ship Design and Construction Review project. So, sorry, no tiebreaker from me right now
Also, redoing the vote box because... the design plans wherent linked to, nor where they always clear even when discussed.


Quote from: Vote Box
Hybrid Cruiser(Ship) - (0) |
Doornhaai Mk4. Torpedo - (1) | Iris
Doornhaai Mk4. Torpedo w/ extra dice for time - (1) | Khang36
Ship Design and Construction Review - (2) | Iris, AseaHeru
Torpedoboot van de Havenwacht - (1) | AseaHeru

Three Dice(One project) - (0) |
Four Dice(project w/ extra die or ship) - (1) | Khang 36
Six Dice(Two Projects) - (2) | AseaHeru, Iris
« Last Edit: April 11, 2022, 09:42:18 pm by Aseaheru »
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Iris

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Re: Refit and Repair 2. Veenland, Autumn, 1896, Design Phase.
« Reply #229 on: April 11, 2022, 04:05:22 pm »

In the interest of moving things along, I'm changing my vote. I'd rather do the MTB than be trapped in decision Hell.
Quote from: Vote Box
Hybrid Cruiser(Ship) - (0) |
Doornhaai Mk4. Torpedo - (0) |
Doornhaai Mk4. Torpedo w/ extra dice for time - (1) | Khang36
Ship Design and Construction Review - (2) | Iris, AseaHeru
Torpedoboot van de Havenwacht - (2) | AseaHeru, Iris

Three Dice(One project) - (0) |
Four Dice(project w/ extra die or ship) - (1) | Khang 36
Six Dice(Two Projects) - (2) | AseaHeru, Iris
« Last Edit: April 11, 2022, 09:41:39 pm by Iris »
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Quote from: AseaHeru (on Discord), Monday, June 20, 2022 10:41 PM
I still want the D. The D is love, the D is life. The D is bully.
Rewind, can't keep going
My mind keeps replaying
That night when we dove in
But now I'm sinking

piratejoe

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Re: Refit and Repair 2. Veenland, Autumn, 1896, Design Phase.
« Reply #230 on: April 27, 2022, 06:46:21 am »

Autumn, 1896, Design Phase.
Quote from: Ship Design and Construction Review
   This project calls for a total modernization of how Veenland designs and constructs its vessels. As our ships become larger and larger, and new designs with even more capabilities are drafted, it is becoming apparent that we must overhaul our ship design and construction standards to bring them in line with the projected vessels we will be constructing during the twentieth century.

   First, the design of hulls and superstructure is evaluated to find the ideal balance between effectiveness and ease of construction. For superstructure design, care is taken to ensure that ships have plenty of room for additional capabilities to be added when discovered - one designer has mentioned the radiotelegraph as a possible new development. Additionally, hulls have been designed and tested to allow speed and high strength with the materials and construction methods available. This will set the stage for the construction of faster, longer vessels, such as future torpedo-boat destroyers, cruisers, “cruiser hunters”, and fast battleships. To aid this, tanks and basins for hydrodynamic testing of hull-form models will be constructed, allowing for the extensive proving of hull designs in miniature before they hit the slipways. This will, of course, also be integrated into the Veenland National School of the Navy’s shipbuilding program. Likewise, the metallurgy of components beyond that of armour is examined for the potential of newly developed alloys or simply new metallurgical practices to have a positive effect on the design of our vessels.

As an adjunct to the first line of improvement, an investigation into design features such as the tumblehome and sponsons, the ideal areas and mounting for the placement of secondary batteries on ships, the ideal design of masts and other superstructure elements, and other features will be carried out to find the best features for our future ships. Experience with real-world observations of the performance of the Resoluut, Zeerover, and Union (AKA Compromise) classes will aid this review.

   Second, construction methods will be modernized to allow Veenland to produce these larger, faster vessels with speed and effectiveness, including the mechanization of the shipyards. Additionally, methods of speeding up the construction of our smaller ships will be investigated. The “piecework shipbuilding” scheme, where the ship is assembled from prefabricated sections constructed in different locations, has been suggested as one way this could be achieved.

   Third, based on the capabilities of our machinery, fire control systems, and other equipment, the ideal layout in future ship designs for these components will be wargamed with the goal of maximizing survivability and minimizing weight. Attention will be given, for example, to find methods of shortening the citadel, such as the so-called “All-forward armament” scheme. With these design studies, the goal is to aid the resilience of vital components in the face of shellfire, fire, flooding, and other inclement events; as well as to evaluate the effectiveness of current passive damage control procedures. Target-ship firing tests using obsolete vessels, if they can be sourced, could be used as one method to evaluate the effectiveness of current techniques and help discover where they can be improved.
Time: 5 | Progress: 5 | Expense: 4

Work on a general overhaul of our shipbuilding and designing methods utilizing our experience in the field and simply rigorous testing is something that isn't expected to take too long for what is essentially a very extensive review of our practices. Further, it's not to cost too much and already has gone off to a good start thanks to the more bureaucratic work being done fairly swiftly. Still, other than this there isn't much to talk about other than the review itself.

Ship Design and Construction Review | 5/15 | 2 PP per die | Rushed 0 times | 2 PP invested

Effectiveness: 6 | Cost: 1 | Bugs: 6

The review itself is fairly extensive, opening up a new way to potentially build ships and a number of design techniques to increase the ease of refitting them in the future as well as survivability, speed, and general effectiveness. This work, when done, should greatly assist in the construction of faster, more durable ships that are designed in the future, as naturally the nature of these changes are impossible to really do to our existing designs without essentially just making a new ship. Still, future designs will benefit immensely from this, especially with our engines. Tragically, this is not going to be finished in time to influence our latest battleship design, but even so it's secondary effect should be able to increase it's build time. The only issue really with this project is simply the fact that the shipyard modernizations will cost quite a bit, however they will be able to cut the construction times of all our ships, be they of future designs or older ones, a fair bit once done.

Torpedoboot van de Havenwacht
This is a very light torpedo boat, designed primarily to operate from ports to defend ports. Two variants of the vessel have been designed, with the primary version being armed with a 2” gun on the forward deck, two torpedo tubes fixed to the hull and pointing some 18° off of centerline, and a stoommachine on the aft transom. The other version is designed for more utility work, being armed with a pair of stoommachines(mounted one on either side of the vessel's cockpit in “pulpits”) and having the capability of carrying three of the mines as proposed by the Unterwasser Anti-Schiffsminen Projekt on the vessel’s aft deck(or some cargo, a number of troops, or other such items). There is no form of armor on any of these vessels. Propulsion is via four engines of the "hot bulb" type, each directly linked to a propeller shaft, with a design speed of 30 knots. In part to achieve this speed, the range of these vessels is limited to about four hours of operation and the boat is extremely lightly built, being mostly constructed out of sheets of laminated timber. However, it should be noted that these vessels do possess a double bottom, albeit as a side effect of fuel bunkerage more than anything.
Boats of this type are not named, being simply numbered. Mass of each craft is projected to be in the 23-35 ton range.
Time: 2 | Progress: 6 | Expense: 6

Work on the torpedoboot is going to take a bit longer than expected mainly due to some issues with the motor unions and their integration into the project. While they and other machinist unions have been important to the navy, they aren't exactly on call like the steelworkers or shipbuilders union. Still, this minor issue aside, the project is as cheap as the naval school is for a Shipbuilding union member. Of course, it's by no means cheap, but relative to just about everything else that we deal with when it comes to costs, it's hardly anything, and the same could be said if the program was done by any other major navy. On another bright side, despite the time that the project is likely to take, we are off to a very good start with the initial prototyping.

Torpedoboot van de Havenwacht | 6/20 | 1 PP per die | Rushed 0 times | 1 PP invested

Effectiveness: 5 | Cost: 5 | Bugs: 2

While the Torpedoboot will be a while off, the initial design is promising. It's not expensive in the slightest, after all it's made of wood, and it matches the speed desired. A mine variant and a  normal one currently exist, and both have good turn radiuses and rudder shift time. Further it's quite stable despite it's size and has a tad bit more range then originally expected, capable of just under six hours. Really, there's not too much else to say about it's effectiveness, it does what it needs to say. The only real issue is that the shafts for the propellers are a bit finicky and can be damaged by continuous operation at high speed for too long by the motor, which isn't exactly ideal given it's main defense is speed. But even so it'll probably be fixed by the motor unions sooner rather than later.



Revision phase will be skipped due to lack of dice. Feel free to discuss strategy and buy plans.

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Spoiler: Ship Classes (click to show/hide)

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Spoiler: Ships (click to show/hide)

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Iris

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Re: Refit and Repair 2. Veenland, Autumn, 1896, Revision & Refit Phase.
« Reply #231 on: April 27, 2022, 04:27:24 pm »

Trying my hand at war plans. If Arming Sword is not up to standards, I have a whole list of sword types.
Quote from: War Plan Arming Sword
Floatilla A: Zeerover,  Adventurier, Pirat (SK), The Union, Herman Van Veen, Lourens Van Vilet, Eldert Schimmelpennink (CDS)
Floatilla B: Onderneming, Geest, potentially Rancune (SK), Reinout van Diermen, Gustaaf ten Donkelaar, Hendrik-Jan Dangremond, Rogier van Beulingen (CDS)

Floatilla A will establish sea control around Oudvierschelpe, fighting battles with Magna fleets if necessary. Once this is done, they will switch focus to supporting a landing on Catalejos.

Floatilla B will contest Magna's presence in the waters around the Centre, focusing on making it difficult for them to operate there. If no significant presence is found, then begin shore bombardments of Maartensbosch in support of the Veenlandish soldiers on Isola del Formaggio. Landings are not recommended but may be carried out if there is sufficient advantage.
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Quote from: AseaHeru (on Discord), Monday, June 20, 2022 10:41 PM
I still want the D. The D is love, the D is life. The D is bully.
Rewind, can't keep going
My mind keeps replaying
That night when we dove in
But now I'm sinking

Iris

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Re: Refit and Repair 2. Veenland, Autumn, 1896, Revision & Refit Phase.
« Reply #232 on: May 05, 2022, 10:23:22 pm »

Since it is a ghost town here, I present War Plan Falchion. It is less of a direct assault than War Plan Arming Sword, meant as a balanced war plan without leaving any flanks open.

Quote from: War Plan Falchion
Task Force A: Zeerover, Pirat (SK), The Union, Herman Van Veen, Lourens Van Vilet (CDS)
Task Force B: Adventurier, Geest (SK), Eldert Schimmelpennink, Reinout van Diermen, Gustaaf ten Donkelaar (CDS)
Task Force C (optional): Rancune, Onderneming (SK), Hendrik-Jan Dangremond, Rogier van Beulingen (CDS)

Task Force A is assigned to take control of the waters around Oudvierschelpe to allow a landing at Catalejos, through any means at their disposal.
Task Force B will support the soldiers on [the island Echtwaar is on, forgive me if it has been mentioned] with the intent of cutting off supply to the Magna soldiers on the island. If they have the capability, they can also bombard Magna's positions on the island.
Task Force C, if assigned, will be stationed in the Centre with the express goal of making Magna's life difficult. They are to avoid heavy fleet actions if possible.
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Quote from: AseaHeru (on Discord), Monday, June 20, 2022 10:41 PM
I still want the D. The D is love, the D is life. The D is bully.
Rewind, can't keep going
My mind keeps replaying
That night when we dove in
But now I'm sinking

Aseaheru

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Re: Refit and Repair 2. Veenland, Autumn, 1896, Revision & Refit Phase.
« Reply #233 on: May 06, 2022, 11:04:16 pm »

 Might aswell get what I have yammered about now and then elsewhere into the record.

 Now, this is based on my being kinda sure that we only have three PP left for the turn. TLDR; if my math is close to correct, and we do only have three PP for the turn, then it is better to save it so we can start on two battleships next turn, instead of one.

Quote from: Construction Plan For Autumn 1896
Construct one(1) six-inch(6") gun battery at Nieuw Harlen
Construct one(1) six-inch(6") gun battery at Maringen
Construct one(1) six-inch(6") gun battery at Veluwbosch
And no, I dont have any opinions on war plans.
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piratejoe

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Re: Refit and Repair 2. Veenland, Autumn, 1896, Revision & Refit Phase.
« Reply #234 on: May 11, 2022, 12:53:29 am »

Autumn, 1896, Revision & Refit Phase.

Revision phase Skipped



It is now the Production&Strategy phase of Autumn, 1896. You have 24 PP remaining should you pay for all maintenance and construction costs.

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Spoiler: Ships (click to show/hide)


Note, reformatted the ship list to look a bit better. Blame Magna if you don't like it, it was their suggestion demand.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2022, 02:30:42 am by piratejoe »
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Aseaheru

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 On the topic of the ship list, those eight undamaged-but-repairing ships, are they free for use this turn?



 Also, construction plan. Nice to have 24pp, and not the 3 I thought we did...
Spoiler: Construction Plan A (click to show/hide)
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Iris

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I thought that PJ said that if a ship was undamaged, it shouldn't be shown as repairing?
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Quote from: AseaHeru (on Discord), Monday, June 20, 2022 10:41 PM
I still want the D. The D is love, the D is life. The D is bully.
Rewind, can't keep going
My mind keeps replaying
That night when we dove in
But now I'm sinking

Khang36

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Quote from: war plan rapier
Floatilla A: Zeerover,  Adventurier, Pirat (SK), The Union, Herman Van Veen, Lourens Van Vilet, Hendrik-Jan Dangremond(CDS)
Floatilla B: Onderneming, Geest, potentially Rancune (SK), Reinout van Diermen, Gustaaf ten Donkelaar, Eldert Schimmelpennink, Rogier van Beulingen (CDS)
*bold is the flag ship of the flotilla

Task Force A is assigned to take control of the waters around Oudvierschelpe to allow a landing at Catalejos, through any means at their disposal.
Task Force B will support the soldiers on [the island Echtwaar is on, forgive me if it has been mentioned] with the intent of cutting off supply to the Magna soldiers on the island. If they have the capability, they can also bombard Magna's positions on the island.

while we currently enjoy numerical superiority in terms of capital ships we have intel that suggest that Magna will be have 6 new battleships completed by either the end of this season or the next, standing orders for both task force are to engage and sink any battleships they encounter if the commanders feel that they have an advantage over the enemy task force.

Our spy corps will look for technical documentation on the Lepidus-class cruiser. Of particular interest are the displacement and top speed.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2022, 07:55:04 am by Khang36 »
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Iris

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This is acceptable to me.

Quote from: Votebox
War Plans:
War Plan Rapier (1): Iris

Construction Plans:
Construction Plan A (1): Iris
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Quote from: AseaHeru (on Discord), Monday, June 20, 2022 10:41 PM
I still want the D. The D is love, the D is life. The D is bully.
Rewind, can't keep going
My mind keeps replaying
That night when we dove in
But now I'm sinking

Khang36

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Quote from: Votebox
War Plans:
War Plan Rapier (2): Iris, Khang36

Construction Plans:
Construction Plan A (2): Iris, Khang36
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