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[RoseHeart]

Yeah, otherwise it becomes hard to warm up new players to the rest of the group. There's the opposite issue, where a game can be too shallow, and lose its' appeal too quickly.

[MeimieFan88]

I feel like in a forum game you don't need complex rules to keep things interesting. The beauty of forum games is the wide open creativity that players and GMs can bring. If it was a video game it'd be different. I actually like really complex video games / card games / board games. But with forum games I just want to do dumb stuff and see what happens. But of course you could also run a card / board game on a forum. I'm mostly talking about a specific type of forum game I guess, where players could do ''whatever they want'. If we're talking about strategy / card / board game design that's run on a forum it's a whole entire other thing and my points would not really be valid at all.

[RoseHeart]

Ah yes, 'do whatever ya want' forum games, those are explosive for the game host.

[MeimieFan88]

Yeah those are some of my favorites to both host and play. And as a player, the easier it is to jump in, the more likely I will. Simple RTDs really hit the spot for me. SGs/ISGs would be great if they didn't require backreading, which isn't very typical for such games unfortunately.

[RoseHeart]

Focus and Level of Detail. Focus is what the game will even let you do. LoD is what the GM will bother to track. Of course there's the option to make it a limited game that ends before it becomes too much. Or some combination of these, and perhaps other methods.

[RoseHeart]

Then there's games that don't end. I've tried a few times on here to make a medieval mmo for instance. There's extremely simple 'play by post's that only need the initial setup, and there are a few other methods FallacyofUrist were discussing a few years ago.

Eh, but I'll never be taken seriously on these forums. Not until I complete more games (I've been doing better) and get rid of my Patreon or any intentions of monetization (a whole conversation in and of itself). I also can be emotional. But as far as not completing games, sometimes I look too far ahead, and I feel more interesting existing mentally in the future than doing the work in the present. If I take this too far I get to a point of satisfaction where the actual seeing it through is no longer interesting, like a puzzle I've already finished in my mind.

What's brought me back to the real world is to remember the saying "no plan survives the battle" so it's worth seeing if I was right.

[MeimieFan88]

I tend to like a medium amount of focus. It's fun to roleplay as a character and do things that are somewhat within reason. Too wide of a focus and things get a little too abstract. Too narrow and it can feel too limiting. LoD I'm not picky about - it's nice to have some toys from the GM to play with but ultimately as a player I'm sort of keeping my own track as well.

Seems like the general case that most RTDs / SGs end without an official ending. I actually tried a game where I had a set amount of turns before the game would forcibly end (it was supposed to last 13 turns I believe) but interest was lost even before it got there lol. I think it can be an interesting idea to try to force a conclusion though, not enough of these things reach an official end!

On the topic of monetization, I wish it were possible for forum games to be a viable business haha. I'm not sure if it can be atm. But if it did happen, I think the best way is for players and GMs to both be getting credit, ideally by a paying audience. I feel that players can put in an amazing amount into a game, so the idea of players paying a GM seems unbalanced to me. Just the two cents I've thought about on this topic. If the game is interesting enough for people to want to spectate in some way, I think such a thing is possible. Forum games have incredible potential to create stories and games beyond what other mediums can offer, I would love to see it grow as a potential industry.

[RoseHeart]

It would be interesting to have players compete for a cash prize!

Makes me think of old Nickelodian game shows I watched as a kid. Patreon at least is targeted at the audience. When I first joined these forums as GameBoyBlue, I had presented a game that had a small cent fee. Really it was a bad idea in every reason possible. Even if it succeeded, it would have been less than $10 for up to 3 months off effort, I was thinking phone app store game prices. I was attracted to an entry fee in relation to an escape room admission cost; or the StarWars 2-day hotel as a contemporary comparison. I think if it's really going to work though, it does have to be aimed at the audience and I think the best model is the highly successful Webcomics and their Patreons.

[RoseHeart]

LoD I'm not picky about - it's nice to have some toys from the GM to play with but ultimately as a player I'm sort of keeping my own track as well.

This gives me shivers. The boards I came from were more familiar with RP like that, preferring the clockwork machinery of a defined game, I made clear my efforts were not just RP, but RPG, a game with rules. Though I came to appreciate that even the 'lawless' RP had some traces of them, with terms like 'godmoding', and...well godmoding.

[MeimieFan88]

Yeah I think something like webcomics is the way to go for forum games. It can't really be a zero-sum game where the revenue is generated by the participants. I mean it can be but I don't think that's the way to go for a lot of types of games. You can do it with a pure strategy game, but it would end up being kind of like a poker tournament or something. Much better if the 'prize pool' is generated by the audience rather than the participants. It kind of depends on what people like to watch. But then we are getting into the realm of game shows and video game tournaments, which isn't exactly the forte of forum games imo. Anyway I have no idea how it may be doable but I do think forum games have something special to offer. Maybe a web comic is exactly the way to go... the crazy ideas you see in forum games you don't really see anywhere else lol.

LoD I'm not picky about - it's nice to have some toys from the GM to play with but ultimately as a player I'm sort of keeping my own track as well.

This gives me shivers. The boards I came from were more familiar with RP like that, preferring the clockwork machinery of a defined game, I made clear my efforts were not just RP, but RPG, a game with rules. Though I came to appreciate that even the 'lawless' RP had some traces of them, with terms like 'godmoding', and...well godmoding.

Well, I just meant that if the GM wasn't taking certain details into consideration, I might still keep track of it myself, for RP purposes mostly, and refer to it even if it's just a 'flavor text' type of reference. I don't mean forcing my will on the status of my character or anything like that, unless the game allowed for it of course.

[Iris]

I'd like to put my own two cents on the situation. I am not particularly picky on which forum games I play: I love roleplaying, more basebuildly/simulationist/strategy-type games (like Risky Ventures, Arms Races, or perhaps that alchemy game Robo did some time ago, though this isn't an all-inclusive list) and SGs and SPAMS, especially those that are written well. What I struggle with are RTDs and godgames - without a clear goal in mind, I tend to... flail.

Monetization of games is a complex topic. I know there is a large proportion of people that strongly believe that all forum games should be free, and I feel like it is a hot-button issue that is best left untouched. I, however, do agree with several of the points that Meimie brought up. I enjoy writing and playing games because they are a collaborative experience between each player and the GM, and this element just isn't present in other forms of entertainment. It is this part of it that keeps drawing me back to them.

[RoseHeart]

the crazy ideas you see in forum games you don't really see anywhere else lol.

sigged.

[MeimieFan88]

XD

[RoseHeart]

I enjoy writing and playing games because they are a collaborative experience between each player and the GM, and this element just isn't present in other forms of entertainment. It is this part of it that keeps drawing me back to them.

here, here

I used to want to design video games, but I realized I didn't have the discipline to take my coding past a surface level. Sooper easy to use tools let me get a little further: Game Maker, RPG Maker, map and scenario editing tools in games, Little Big Planet, (PlayStation Dreams looks cool) so of course forum games and that zero wall to get to players that was appealing, the maintanance of actually hosting is a whole new effort, though like you said Iris it can have its' own rewards.

I really admire forum game host whores (said with love and respect) like Piecewise. Mastery comes from hours spent on a craft, and they. are. just. always. at it.

[RoseHeart]

I didn't have any background with D&D or any serious storydriven tabletop RPG, so respect for the role of GM was not obvious to me.