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[JAL28]

I think most of us know that if one disables demons in advanced worldgen, goblins will spawn in the underworld instead of demons. But what if, despite there being demons, there are also goblins in the Underworld? I mean, it is implied that goblins themselves were originally inhabitants of the Underworld and were only released because their demonic masters built that slade spire to let them out.

When the Underworld is revealed, instead of being in a group alongside other demons, a single(or double or trio) of unique(humanoid) demons might enter the map with a horde of 10-20 goblin “slaves”(in a rudimentary version of the master-servant relationships between demonic masters and their goblin subjects in goblin civs), with the slaves either being naked or wearing leather/bone armour and weapons/shields, crafted from the remains of other demons(presumable slain by the group). Large hordes of them(100-200) might come with Demonic Assaults(a feature I suggested a long time ago). Particularly special goblins might even receive custom slade weaponry from their “masters”, as well as have attained skills in their combat style.

These goblin-demon groups are considered Goblin Groups in Legends and battles with them are considered actual battles between groups. The only role will be “master” which is occupied by the demon “master”(who does not have a name until it starts a civilization). If retiring a fortress with the Underworld revealed, these groups may wage battles against your fortress in retirement, as well as will be given a claim in the fortress site. If your fortress is abandoned during a Demonic Assault with goblins, is abandoned when one or more of these groups are onscreen and alive or is taken over by one of these groups in retirement, the demon “master” is given a name, the group becomes a civilization and your fortress will become the capital of said civilization.

Goblins in the Underworld are immune to everything demons can throw at them(syndromes, fire, webs etc etc.), though they lose this power if they become citizens of a new goblin civilization. All goblins in the Underworld are non-hostile to demons in the underworld and are labeled as Underworld(like demons).

[FantasticDorf]

Itd be nice if there was a more generalist tag for creatures that can be found in the underworld than [DEMON] or 'hacking' them in by putting a super low biome depth. [UNDERWORLD], being neutral to [DEMON] & [UNIQUE_DEMON] as a option for instance.

- like the comparison of [CANNOT_UNDEAD] (hostile to OPPOSED_TO_LIFE] and [NOT_LIVING] (friendly with opposed to life necros/zombies or other races like it, can ally up even if they dont share the same hostile cause)

I can't read the wall-text very well so bear with me please.

I think most of us know that if one disables demons in advanced worldgen, goblins will spawn in the underworld instead of demons. But what if, despite there being demons, there are also goblins in the Underworld? I mean, it is implied that goblins themselves were originally inhabitants of the Underworld and were only released because their demonic masters built that slade spire to let them out.

When the Underworld is revealed, instead of being in a group alongside other demons, a single(or double or trio) of unique(humanoid) demons might enter the map with a horde of 10-20 goblin “slaves”(in a rudimentary version of the master-servant relationships between demonic masters and their goblin subjects in goblin civs), with the slaves either being naked or wearing leather/bone armour and weapons/shields, crafted from the remains of other demons(presumable slain by the group).

• Could this be implemented into a [UNDERWORLD_LAYER_LINKED] token for a abstract goblin civilization group? This puts them at the same category as subterreanean people meaning they will form little underworld campfires with whatever's to hand for underworld metal/material & tameable beasts and be found roaming around.

Large hordes of them(100-200) might come with Demonic Assaults(a feature I suggested a long time ago). Particularly special goblins might even receive custom slade weaponry from their “masters”, as well as have attained skills in their combat style.

• This is largely what happens with the [MINING_UNDERWORLD_DISASTERS] entity token introduced in 47.02 starts to work in worldgen with the passage of time, a army of 200 demons and their underlings drawn from any civilization ruled by [EVIL] creatures (so with multiple options, chooses one per event) whatever when the event triggers over a civ with the token & the simultaneous ability to dig deep with a cave_detailed, cave or dark_fortress accessibility to depth, will spawn a hostile army and overtake the site.

- The main difference in this suggestion though is that it might be provoked with significantly less demons in the assualt with more of these 'slaves' as you describe it, being a totally independent attack but still having the event fire if the underworld is empty of demons using a goblin-force instead, and installing underworld goblin ethics on it.

Does it make sense for underworld-goblins to have anything special to themselves after they've enacted their coup of the surface dwellers? Infernal armor? else they'd fall quite quickly under the might of dwarves clad in metal armor no matter how numerous they are; It also be nice if dwarves could gain admantine as a resource when the invasion fails, seeing off the threat and mining that sweet sweet resource introducing it to worldgen.

[JAL28]

While it is similar to the worldgen mining incidents, it is also smaller and is something you can actually see with your own eyes(rather than through Legends Mode). It also would answer some logical questions like why there aren’t actually goblins in the circus when clowns are present, despite them being from circus origins, it is impossible for all of them to have escaped so there MUST be some down there, and if demonic masters were smart enough to subject goblins to their rule, why can’t regular demons(who are smart enough of course) too?

Also, the goblins would not have anything special, except probably having demons as war animals(like how circus incident-born civs have access to demonic war beasts).

[NW_Kohaku]

The only thing I think would be worth pointing out is that leaving the big top requires flying (unless dwarves specifically build them stairs).  They'd be useless as part of the surprise party spilling out of the clown car, but if they were just some of the random wandering creatures in that layer after the initial clown car surprise had passed, it would make sense. 

[JAL28]

Yeah no they wouldn’t be part of the initial clown wave. Probably only after the wave, since yeah as you said they would be next to useless.