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[SHAD0Wdump]

Ho boy, lots to unpack here.

Also I'm stealing those tags for dividers, they nice.

So I realize a problem. For his argument to be wrong, we are looking at one of the following scenarios.

Did you forget about third parties? They could just be acting weird because they're trying to play the fence.

Oh shit, you're right. Hmm...

Webadict is probably a mafia-ally hanging back until he can identify who he's working with so he doesn't hunt his own win condition.

*attracts stares*

What? He's definitely a bad guy! It just makes sense!

Shadow

NQT, Caz, Toaster: What do you think of the current situation? Hector/Luckyowl's waffling on votes? Initial bandwagon on Luckyowl? What about Toony not quite being in the limelight?

Vote waffling is weak unfocused play but almost a null tell. Drawing back and lacking commitment in votes can be a scumtell.
Lucky was bound to get flak. Early game pressure on them isn't extraordinary-- what we want to watch for is people taking weak early cases right up to the end of day. It's a bit early to tell about Toony. Town!Toony I expect to play to the hilt when things get real: I'll have a better idea D2 after we've seen him at day's end. What do you think about the vote wafflers and Toony?

When I voted Webadict Hector and Lucky jumped on very quickly. It's not just waffling, it's waffling after bandwagoning, very concerning play in my eyes.

 Do you think I should reconsider that view? Why?


 Tricmagic My vote's already on you, but I need to stress that it's staying there because of this shit right here:

For townreads, I will tentatively put forth Shadowdump into the spotlight. Still got a ways to go for the rest of them, but it's a good start. Back to breakfast.

Add Secretdorf to my list of suspicious suspects. What wagon did I join again? Given I think it was never a wagon in the first place, RVSes Luckyowl to pressure him is a fine plan. Then you go claiming I am the one fakeclaiming. Main point is I cannot be killed before at least one mafia dies, or a vig decides to shoot me. Mafia won't kill me because I can be lynched, town won't lynch me because I claimed Miller and cops won't investigate me. If I was SK it would be a very bold move to make. If I was mafia, it draw attention. If I'm town, it prevents wasting an investigate.

You can't waste a lynch, and can't believe me. So you turn to vigs to do the kill, wasting their kill on town if you are mafia. Very clear logic with absolutely no fault. (Other than the vry clear faults, see if you can spot it for me, would ya?)

Webadict is addicted to making webs. this isn't very new, it's how he catches his prey. The Null on NQT and Toaster is what pushes you into suspicion, on top of saying both Luckyowl and Shadow are towny. If it was just one it wouldn't be as erroneous to me, but you buddy two.

Woah, get back! No getting frisky with me!

 First you buddy up to me quite aggressively, then you make a highly specific claim for being a highly resistant WIFOM mess of a role while throwing out a heaping load of WIFOM yourself, and then you top off this mess with a load of hypocrisy about buddying when you just humped my leg in the last post?

Get off it. I could see a person trying to stop the town from making a big mistake dealing with a role like that, but you had barely any pressure on you and you just spill all of this town-confusing mess everywhere. You need grilled HARD.

So why? What are you really trying to accomplish with this? Give me a damn good reason to unvote you.

SHAD0Wdump - Biased - Neutral: I don't like their cases, but I can't trust myself to make an unbiased assessment of them. So, we'll stick them here.

*taunt* What? Did I not stroke your ego enough? Or are you just afraid I might actually be mafia and you don't want to kill your allies? *taunt*

Also, asking a vig to soot me to confirm in that manner of phrasing is not very town. What in the world would you get out of confirming me a miller other than dead town? Is my play to reveal that info so confusing to one who seeks survival that you can't comprehend it?

Are you invulnerable or not? Or are you a filthy miller-claiming liar?

To all players: Who are you willing to lynch besides me?

Tricmagic, obviously. Webadict next. Probably hector after that.

So here's a question, if I claimed a survivor with a very useful power for town, will I be allowed to live? I have my own ability to save myself from scum kills.

For what it's worth, I believe this. Even though it means a mafia-ally + normal third-party, I feel that lines up with my assumptions about Fallacy tossing in another third-party for safe-ness. And the mafia-ally might be the safest thing to add.

[Caz]

Three third parties? Is that even reasonable?

[hector13]

So you think there are 2 3Ps and 3 mafia?

@NQT: I think survivors aren’t town, for suresies :p

The fact the Secretdorf claimed to be scum-kill immune does suggest there’s town-sided kills in the game though. Hopefully not of the heydude murdering their way through town variety.

[SHAD0Wdump]

*facepalms*

Who did I miss, or are you about to claim third party?

[Caz]

I can't count. Continue. >_>

[webadict]

Vector - 70% Non-Town: Vector... lied to me? Something feels off about Vector, but I can't put a good reason behind it. They let me off too easily, and they aren't trying to find out my alignment. If they said their role was one that followed the same pattern, I'd have felt better, but they didn't... >:| Liar. And with them going after juicebox... I just don't know. I don't want to lynch Vector because I want to play with them too much, but if they're Mafia... I gotta do it.

You know as well as I do that someone being the first vote on Juicebox is necessary if we're trying to get everyone active and playing D1.

Are you seriously going to waste all this time on "r u town?" "ya." "LIER!!"? You think I'm 70% scum, come lynch me bro.

I mean, okay, Vector. That's not why I'm suspicious of you, but if you want to believe it is, that's really on you, not me. I already told you that your demeanor doesn't feel the same way as it did in the other games you were in, but I definitely feel that's a hard accusation to counter. This was literally not an accusation, but rather a hope that we could be on a team, and I feel as though the fates have consigned us to this. What a tragic fate we must meet.

Ugh, see, now I have to make a proper case as to why we should lynch you other than saying, "Vector isn't normally like this." I'm not even voting you for voting juicebox. I think you're confused about it. I just... I dunno, it feels like you're not Town. Do you know what I mean?

OK, that makes sense. So to clarify things: I too would be suspicious of any serious policy lynch attempt on LO absent of any other reasons.

On that note...

Webadict, I'm a reasonable guy-- persuade me why we should policy lynch LO?

Like, I honestly don't even really think you're the most suspicious player anymore

What's your second best case on a player?

Second best case? Luckyowl isn't even really a case. They're just a liability. But, I'm willing to trust ToonyMan on this one because there's no reason not to. I think that really undermines exactly why I feel like Luckyowl is Townish.

I think that Vector is probably Mafia. Call it intuition at the moment, which isn't really a good case, but they're playing a very passive game, and I don't feel like Vector's in the mood to play word games with me because I think they're afraid they'll look scummy. But, all this is really going to do is push Vector to vote me because they'll think I'm making a lazy case and then use that to make some grandiose display where we waste twenty four hours on me because everyone will always be suspicious of me. Blah-blah-blah, it's the same story always, and that's just how it is. It'll at least give Vector a push towards trying to make their alignment clearer, but I honestly think it'll backfire on them to do that, plus if I write it out, they'll have to consider whether it's a good idea to follow or ignore what I'm saying because this is just a stream of consciousness and not a future prediction.

Other than that, I would say to be cautious of Caz. They're active, but they don't make compelling cases on who they believe to be Town or scum.

Also, as an addendum to your point, you should be wary of people lynching Secretdorf for the same thing because it's very similar.

Webadict is probably a mafia-ally hanging back until he can identify who he's working with so he doesn't hunt his own win condition.

*attracts stares*

What? He's definitely a bad guy! It just makes sense!

SHAD0Wdump - Biased - Neutral: I don't like their cases, but I can't trust myself to make an unbiased assessment of them. So, we'll stick them here.

*taunt* What? Did I not stroke your ego enough? Or are you just afraid I might actually be mafia and you don't want to kill your allies? *taunt*

Man, you obviously don't know how I play. I guess if you think I'm third-party, then you somehow believe there are two third parties in the game? That seems a little heavy, and while it's certainly not impossible, it's very unlikely.

I think it's very telling that you're hunting third parties, though. That's a mafiatell.

[SHAD0Wdump]

I think it's very telling that you're hunting third parties, though. That's a mafiatell.

My vote's not on you is it?

[hector13]

I think it's very telling that you're hunting third parties, though. That's a mafiatell.

My vote's not on you is it?

Ironic echo in 3... 2...

[webadict]

Also, I can safely say that SHAD0Wdump is firmly in the scum category. They've consistently gone after easy targets, and is still going after TricMagic for some stupid fucking reason. And hector13 for acting exactly how they're acting. Hypocritical, if you ask me. Tell me when they hit an actual scum player and I'll tell you when bus arrives.

Probably 70% scum.

I think it's very telling that you're hunting third parties, though. That's a mafiatell.

My vote's not on you is it?

You should consider asking your doctor about your short-term memory loss.

Oh shit, you're right. Hmm...

Webadict is probably a mafia-ally hanging back until he can identify who he's working with so he doesn't hunt his own win condition.

*attracts stares*

What? He's definitely a bad guy! It just makes sense!

[Caz]

Other than that, I would say to be cautious of Caz. They're active, but they don't make compelling cases on who they believe to be Town or scum.

Pfft, what? I've already successfully identified one admitted non-town player. You're trying to policy lynch a player because they made questionable decisions in previous games and have little more than "a bad feeling" about Vector.

I thought you guys might be masons since you seemed to want to wait until they were online before posting but it doesn't seem like there's anything happening there.

I don't think Vector is acting weird at all, btw. Less active, sure, but that is explainable by being busy IRL (which has already been posted about). And I don't think voting for juicebox is a problem either given that they've done basically nothing all game so far. How long do they get to coast?

[Vector]

Ugh, see, now I have to make a proper case as to why we should lynch you other than saying, "Vector isn't normally like this." I'm not even voting you for voting juicebox. I think you're confused about it. I just... I dunno, it feels like you're not Town. Do you know what I mean?

I think we're probably in a pretty similar position. Neither of us is going to rigorously figure out the other's alignment D1 without lighting everything on fire and we both have a very strong interest in managing the other regardless of our own alignment. If we were on the same scumteam as each other, we would have to stage a massive fight to be remotely plausible.

And you also know, regardless of your own alignment, that the best way to out me as scum is to get me to jump by slowly cranking up the pressure without any data, so you need to do that regardless of your own present alignment. But because I know this about you, I'm not taking your mounting pressure very seriously. It says nothing about you regardless of alignment, and it also says nothing about me unless you bring some more firepower. I also know that interacting with you directly on D1 is not how I will figure out whether you're scum or not. I'm more interested in paying attention to the overall structure of your play, seeing how it shakes out, and pounding you on D2 if that turns out to be necessary.

. . . Or, I guess, working together to maul the scum on D2 if that turns out to be appropriate.

If you really want me lynched, you know as well as I do that "Vector isn't normally like this" isn't going to cut it. So I'm inviting you: when you're ready, bring it. But as I'm town and you currently have nothing, you're wasting your vote.


Ninja'd by attack on Shadowdump.

[SHAD0Wdump]

They've consistently gone after easy targets, and is still going after TricMagic for some stupid fucking reason. And hector13 for acting exactly how they're acting. Hypocritical, if you ask me. Tell me when they hit an actual scum player and I'll tell you when bus arrives.

How is going after you "going after easy targets", I've been on you the most in this game with hector clearly being second in line. Or is 'easy targets' a slip that you are scum?

I think it's very telling that you're hunting third parties, though. That's a mafiatell.

My vote's not on you is it?

You should consider asking your doctor about your short-term memory loss.

I applied my opinions on you and proceeded to target who I think is actual scum, there's nothing bizarre here besides your consciously decided ignorance.

[TricMagic]

OK Shadow, if you want to vote me go ahead, but it doesn't change my opinion on you. Webadict, those are some large webs you're spinning, what ya trying ta catch.


And yes, Millers are very WIFOMy. But to be fair, they were asking a vig to kill me, so a bit of a wave of WIFOM is a valid tactic to slick them up and see what they drop.

[SHAD0Wdump]

So you're accusing Web of making webs while you cast your own web. Ech... Kinda believable. Still one of if not the ugliest posts I've read in the game so far.

[webadict]

I think we're probably in a pretty similar position. Neither of us is going to rigorously figure out the other's alignment D1 without lighting everything on fire and we both have a very strong interest in managing the other regardless of our own alignment. If we were on the same scumteam as each other, we would have to stage a massive fight to be remotely plausible.

And you also know, regardless of your own alignment, that the best way to out me as scum is to get me to jump by slowly cranking up the pressure without any data, so you need to do that regardless of your own present alignment. But because I know this about you, I'm not taking your mounting pressure very seriously. It says nothing about you regardless of alignment, and it also says nothing about me unless you bring some more firepower. I also know that interacting with you directly on D1 is not how I will figure out whether you're scum or not. I'm more interested in paying attention to the overall structure of your play, seeing how it shakes out, and pounding you on D2 if that turns out to be necessary.

. . . Or, I guess, working together to maul the scum on D2 if that turns out to be appropriate.

If you really want me lynched, you know as well as I do that "Vector isn't normally like this" isn't going to cut it. So I'm inviting you: when you're ready, bring it. But as I'm town and you currently have nothing, you're wasting your vote.


Ninja'd by attack on Shadowdump.

Ya got me, Vector. I can't lynch you for multiple reasons. But, I have to explain why I'm suspicious of you, and I unfortunately don't have much beyond a charge that doesn't exist. And yet, it's the same charge that will always be levered against me. All we can do is shake our heads, shrug our shoulders, and carry on. So, your response is correct, but it puts me at arm's length and still gives me the feeling that you're hiding things, especially because I know that you know that I'm wary of you.

But, I will say that you're wrong. I very much like to know your alignment on Day 1 specifically because you are a strong player, and having two Town players working in conjunction makes this easier, and I've done it before.

Now, here's the funny part: You may be unwilling to engaged here if you've got a role that allows you to bypass, and it's quite possible that I ignored this possibility. That would be an easy out for you here, but if that's the case, I'm willing to counteract it by saying that claiming as such will leave you, while not protected, but very much avengable. Let me cast out a line in your direction, you can tell me if I've been hooking the worm correctly.

OK Shadow, if you want to vote me go ahead, but it doesn't change my opinion on you. Webadict, those are some large webs you're spinning, what ya trying ta catch.


And yes, Millers are very WIFOMy. But to be fair, they were asking a vig to kill me, so a bit of a wave of WIFOM is a valid tactic to slick them up and see what they drop.

Webs are for lies, not millers. I don't think you'd claim Miller as scum. Simple as that. Makes perfect sense in my mind. Every Miller claim on this subforum has been from a Townie... Except for me, I claimed Miller once as scum, but, like, I'm the anomaly, so it's not really fair.

They've consistently gone after easy targets, and is still going after TricMagic for some stupid fucking reason. And hector13 for acting exactly how they're acting. Hypocritical, if you ask me. Tell me when they hit an actual scum player and I'll tell you when bus arrives.

How is going after you "going after easy targets", I've been on you the most in this game with hector clearly being second in line. Or is 'easy targets' a slip that you are scum?

Because it's an easy vote you can do while blending into the shadows and not having to pick up the slack left to you. You can just borrow arguments from other people and pretend their yours. Nothing that I've seen from you is uniquely yours. You're just a bandwagoner. Also, you're voting TricMagic, and that's just dumb. TricMagic is basically Town, unless you want to claim they fakeclaimed as Miller, which is just... It's just not likely to happen.