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[Secretdorf]

You’re four votes away from a hammer and it’s the first part of D1. You have plenty of time to convince us we’re mistaken to have our votes on you, don’t worry about it.

I don't know why you are voting me as I believe my logic is correct. Here's the thing:
I believe Caz's posts are something that might come from mafia because their behavior is passive which I think is a good reason to vote someone.

[TricMagic]

And yet luckyowl isn't?

[Secretdorf]

Luckyowl is something like losing hope because there's a bandwagon on you. As he is not even defending, scum are jumping on him. Luckyowl is a valid lynch target though, but I'm trying to get something out of other people too(which I probably am not doing effectively). I'm not saying we 'must not' lynch him but I think it might just benefit mafia by giving them free kill.

[webadict]

Luckyowl is something like losing hope because there's a bandwagon on you. As he is not even defending, scum are jumping on him. Luckyowl is a valid lynch target though, but I'm trying to get something out of other people too(which I probably am not doing effectively). I'm not saying we 'must not' lynch him but I think it might just benefit mafia by giving them free kill.

If scum is jumping on Luckyowl, then why aren't you voting for one of those voting for Luckyowl?

[Secretdorf]

Luckyowl is something like losing hope because there's a bandwagon on you. As he is not even defending, scum are jumping on him. Luckyowl is a valid lynch target though, but I'm trying to get something out of other people too(which I probably am not doing effectively). I'm not saying we 'must not' lynch him but I think it might just benefit mafia by giving them free kill.

If scum is jumping on Luckyowl, then why aren't you voting for one of those voting for Luckyowl?

Because I don't know which one is mafia as some players claim revenge on him. Everything is really confusing but it will get clearer.

[Caz]

For you I just meant all your posts were passive and made me think you were trying to survive only.

I don't think they have been passive. Was it my question about SKs and maf-allies that upset you? Or when I agreed with Toaster that you rolefishing is scummy?

I somehow skimmed past this. Yes wtf is with the obvious fishing for power roles?

OK don't answer it, I didn't realize that, I just wanted to see people's response.

...Why though? Either you were trying to gain role information or you weren't actually concerned with the answer because you just wanted to ask a question to look like you were doing something. Neither of those options look good for you.


Yeah actually I don't mind if people see this as an OMGUS vote. Secretdorf.

1. rolefishing
2. bad reasoning for voting LuckyOwl (but he actually didn't vote him anyway)
3. voting TricMagic while simultaneously claiming that he could be a fool (more 'weird' behaviour than scummy behaviour admittedly?)
4. buddying luckyowl constantly


Also Secretdorf you made a point of saying you were going to re-read my posts. What did you find?

[Secretdorf]

Luckyowl

I might have got a bit tunnel-vision on Caz. But I don't know who else to make a case on to save myself, so the only other bandwagon is that of Luckyowl.

[webadict]

Luckyowl

I might have got a bit tunnel-vision on Caz. But I don't know who else to make a case on to save myself, so the only other bandwagon is that of Luckyowl.

Okay, so first, re-examine your own logic. Do you realize why it's hypocritical of what you said and why you're voting for Luckyowl? Second, you're partially right here, in that you should absolutely be finding someone else to lynch instead of you getting lynched, but you're going to have to put in effort to do so. And third, you're doing a really bad job of proving that your being lynched would negatively impact the Town.

[Secretdorf]

For you I just meant all your posts were passive and made me think you were trying to survive only.

I don't think they have been passive. Was it my question about SKs and maf-allies that upset you? Or when I agreed with Toaster that you rolefishing is scummy?

Scumchat thing and guts.

I somehow skimmed past this. Yes wtf is with the obvious fishing for power roles?

OK don't answer it, I didn't realize that, I just wanted to see people's response.

...Why though? Either you were trying to gain role information or you weren't actually concerned with the answer because you just wanted to ask a question to look like you were doing something. Neither of those options look good for you.

I realized later I am role fishing. That was just a filler question to know how happy people were with their roles.

Yeah actually I don't mind if people see this as an OMGUS vote. Secretdorf.

1. rolefishing
2. bad reasoning for voting LuckyOwl (but he actually didn't vote him anyway)
3. voting TricMagic while simultaneously claiming that he could be a fool (more 'weird' behaviour than scummy behaviour admittedly?)
4. buddying luckyowl constantly


Also Secretdorf you made a point of saying you were going to re-read my posts. What did you find?

I found that my brain said you're mafia, but I don't think that anymore.

1. As stated, that wasn't intentional role fishing, even if it was.

2. I voted him now anyway.

3. I thought tric was fooling us into believing that he was town when we got a mafia result on him.

4. I thought it was mean to lynch someone before giving them a chance to defend. He got his chance I suppose.

[notquitethere]

Caz, I don't think you read the OP fully did you?


Owl, will you use your vote actively in the game, or just flip at the end of each day?


Pretty bad feeling about LuckYowl in the interaction below. Wuba can guess that 3 is a normal mafia team size for a game this size. 4 max. 2 if they were really OP. It's not rocket science if you've played or ran games. But a scum!Luck might be keenly aware of the scum size and the fact the scum team don't know who's on it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Don't worry hector. It's gonna be a... webadict, Vector, hector13 scumteam according to the randomizer.

Blech, maybe I'll reroll that.

It's gonna be Toaster, webadict, Vector... Oh no, someone hit reroll.

Third times the charm: Vector, SHAD0Wdump, TricMagic.

Sorry, Vector. You're gonna be scum for sure. Three time can't be coincidence, and science proves that.

Mafia obviously know their number. But us townies. Don't know. So I'll ask this to Webadict.

Webadict:: Why are giving off numbers when we recently learned we're not aware of the number of scum members?

It's not enough to hang a case on, but it struck me as worth pointing out. My first thought was, is that one of Lucky's dumbtells? but this time I don't think it actually is.


Juice

NQT: If you are the leader of a wagon, and a counter wagon forms against you, how will you convince town to join your wagon?

I just never give up. I take a step back from defensive play and go on the offensive, bringing up positive reasons for players to lynch my target rather than just negative reasons to vote me. Basic stuff really. What would you do?


Toony

NQT, what's the best way to attract the night kill of the mafia? Should you play more passively as town if you have a powerful role?

Mafia tend to kill players they don't think they can lynch or players they think will be a danger to them (doctors, vigs etc.), when they don't have any strong contenders like that, or they have good reason to think a doctor might protect their preferred target, they just go for low-info lynches and take out someone whose death doesn't help anyone. Playing too passively can put you in that latter camp. In a role-heavy game like this, it's best just play actively and spur other players to be active. Taking a backseat would be sacrificing the day game in the hope of ameliorating the worst of the night game, it's a losing strat. What do you reckon?


Tric

I mean, I am a Miller. Again. Also yes Luckyowl.

Did you always plan on revealing this or did something in the thread make you think you had to?


Vector, do you think LuckyOwl can be trusted to lead the town at LYLO?

[Caz]

Caz, I don't think you read the OP fully did you?

Ugh, what have I done now?

[SHAD0Wdump]

Jim should count his lucky stars. Which is a funny reference, too.

...

I like my role at a 10 because I got to make a silly joke that everyone will have forgotten about by the time FoU posts the endgame stuff. Well, I guess you could lynch me on D1 too, but I’m too uh... valuable to kill. I provide levity and humour! I won’t find scum but I might make you smile one time maybe over the course of the game!

Ha! Third-party is alignment so I can’t be accused of role-fishing.

Ok, what is this crap? This is a clear third party claim in my eyes and it sounds to me like you are hinting it to be a jester-like role?

 hector13: How is such a claim not indicative of scum posing as jester and why do you think it's a good idea to present this 'mini-game' of figuring out your hints when that will just distract town from hunting mafia?

SHADOWDump: hey it’s not fair of you to use other games as a basis for wanting to lynch Luckyowl, at least in the context you’re using.

On an entirely unrelated note, what are your thoughts on hypocrisy in mafia?

Also, if you think there are better targets, why have you done nothing to find them? Unless you think Vector is the best D1 target?

Is Luckyowl your scumbuddy?

Hypocrisy? Easy to slip up on, definitely deserves to be grilled when picked up on, and can be used intentionally to get people talking. It's a useful thing for squeezing people.

As for being on the attack, I was asleep, my vote is being held on Vector until I get any form of response, then I'll use it elsewhere.

-----------

@Hector:

ToonyMan stole my idea of rolefishing for almost every question for my RVS post, that’s disgusting. I was really looking forward to doing that. Obvscum but I won’t vote for him.

Cool. Me asking if you're town is role-fishing.

Why are you purposely behaving anti-town? You're not even voting Luckyowl.

Oh hold up, you ain't getting away with that.

ShadowDUMP, what kind of role do you think you added to the mix with your last minute jump in? What alignment?

NQT, what's the best way to be accidently nightkilled due to mod error to attract the night kill of the mafia? Should you play more passively as town if you have a powerful role?

Toaster, show me a picture of your face the exact moment you read your role-PM. If that isn't possible, how would you describe your facial muscles? Tense? Relaxed? Up? Down? Have you been visiting your doctor about it?

Toony:: Explain to me right now how this is not rolefishing. I see you backpedaling, get back over here.

@SHADOWdump:

ShadowDUMP, what kind of role do you think you added to the mix with your last minute jump in? What alignment?

Sounds like the roles might have been jumbled? I'm betting multiple alterations, possible added mafia member or a third party added.

You're saying FoU changed every role just for one player last minute? Seems unlikely.

No possibility of an added town player?

Mild possibility? If pure vanilla town was a valid role I'd see that as easy to just shoehorn in, but as it stands he's making a point of all power roles here, so that would have a more significant impact on balance. My inclusion could very well have necessitated a complete reshaping of roles to such a degree that the safest bet might have been to add another third party or a mafia-ally. Webadicts claim of three mafia has me at less belief of an additional mafia now.

 I of course am speaking from bullshitland as I have not truly hosted a mafia game and really don't know the intricacies of balancing. But I think I have a decent guess on how that works.

[Caz]

Ha! Third-party is alignment so I can’t be accused of role-fishing.

Ok, what is this crap? This is a clear third party claim in my eyes and it sounds to me like you are hinting it to be a jester-like role?

 hector13: How is such a claim not indicative of scum posing as jester and why do you think it's a good idea to present this 'mini-game' of figuring out your hints when that will just distract town from hunting mafia?

Uhm, I think he was clarifying that he was alignment fishing, not rolefishing. He's not actually claiming to be a third party as far as I can tell.

[SHAD0Wdump]

Take a long gander at the previous quote.

[webadict]

Take a long gander at the previous quote.

Not seeing it.