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[gchristopher]

Seeing an interesting interaction and not sure if it's a bug? A human bowman was standing around the map edge (for some reason, they just show up and stand at the map edges)  and he shot at a passing worm man, who fled into a cloud of heinous soot and became a heinous soot thrall. Normal so far.

The soot thrall charged the human bowman and punched him in the upper body, bruising the muscle, jamming the right false ribs through the left lung and tearing the left lung. The human bowman is now instantly also a heinous soot thrall. Also normal and this is precisely the kind of contagious contamination threat you want for a fortress named "Bristlebrush the Eternal Labor of Scouring."

What IS weird though is the two thralls are continuing to fight each other. In the creatures screen the worm man thrall is listed as "Opposed to Life", but the human bowman thrall does not have an allegiance listed anymore. It was "Guest" before. The bowman is still firing arrows, too. Not sure if that's always been a thrall behavior.

I expected the thralls to both be Opposed to life and start chasing down other creatures on the map or attack the fortress instead of fighting each other. Anyone have an idea what's up?

[FantasticDorf]

This is quite a normal phonemeon, since when "reanimated" they retain their current alliegances and grievances at the time, so in having a battle with each other it carries through.

This is also why assigning a dwarf to raise bodies with necromancery won't be successful unless they've had a personal tie to the fortress at some point (wild animals, invaders) but often fortress member bodies will raise correctly, especially if they died in combat against non fortress members, with the body retrieved and risen often making passive undead or a intelligent undead fortress member.

But if they were fighting as part of a loyalty cascade, they'll start attacking other dwarves if i remember correctly.

[Loud Whispers]

EVEN IN DEATH THE BOWMAN SERVES

[Thisfox]

EVEN IN DEATH THE BOWMAN SERVES

EVEN IN DEATH HE HITS HIS ENEMY OVER THE HEAD WITH A LOADED CROSSBOW.

[Loud Whispers]

EVEN IN DEATH THE BOWMAN SERVES

EVEN IN DEATH HE HITS HIS ENEMY OVER THE HEAD WITH A LOADED CROSSBOW.

EVEN IN LIFE HE DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO SHOOT

EVEN IN DEATH HE DID PREFER THE BOOT

[gchristopher]

Okay, seriously, I think there's a new problem with thralling and loyalty. I just had a group of Giant Wrens caught in the same hideous soot, and the thralls immediately fought each other, instead of attacking the remaining animals or the fortress. Thralls shouldn't be fighting each other, and these two were from the same original group.

[gchristopher]

The remaining thrall ignored the other animals nearby and pathed off the map instead of attacking, or pathing into the fortress.

Something is really wrong with thralls in 47.04. They're basically no threat now.

I guess the next test is to hope an invasion gets hit.

[PatrikLundell]

If one wren was thralled and then attacked the one that was (not yet) thralled, they'd probably continue to fight after the second one was thralled as well.

If you've observed undead animals entering the map, you'll see them behave mostly like live animals, i.e. amble around and then eventually leave the map. I think (no proof) that they'll attack living things they perceive due to being opposed to life, but don't have any overriding directive to attack the fortress, so they'll ignore the fortress unless they detect something they want to attack.

Also, I didn't think the real threat of thralling was the resultant thralls, but the risk of your dorfs being thralled. If you don't venture to the surface due to that threat, you won't risk attacks from thralls either.

[anewaname]

If one wren was thralled and then attacked the one that was (not yet) thralled, they'd probably continue to fight after the second one was thralled as well.

That is what I've seen, in older DF versions also. This is also how events play out when several were-infected dwarfs are locked in a room and one transforms before the others.

If you've observed undead animals entering the map, you'll see them behave mostly like live animals, i.e. amble around and then eventually leave the map. I think (no proof) that they'll attack living things they perceive due to being opposed to life, but don't have any overriding directive to attack the fortress, so they'll ignore the fortress unless they detect something they want to attack.

Also, I didn't think the real threat of thralling was the resultant thralls, but the risk of your dorfs being thralled. If you don't venture to the surface due to that threat, you won't risk attacks from thralls either.

A thralled giant rhinoceros was on the surface for several years. It killed all the animals and goblins in visual range, but it was also attempting to path into the fort (there were two entrances and I was opening one to lure it closer then opening the other so a dwarf mob could grab some things and then closing both). But most of the other thralls I have seen did not attempt to path into the fort, including some wandering off the map before their remaining herd members did. I suspect that thralls have a "kill list" the same way a squad does, and if the thrall puts something on their kill list, it will wait around until it can path to it.