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[FallacyofUrist]

So do you think I was just faking when I tried to use it yesterday?

Yes.

If you’re still convinced I’m scum, think of this. I can give my guns away to people. You ability inspected me, you know first hand that they’re just regular items. If I was scum, I would just give my guns to my buddies and have us kill multiple people in a single night or day.

All it takes is one balancing auto or such that I didn't see in your role. Something like 'cannot do over x HP of damage in a cycle' or 'dealing over x HP of damage in a cycle means the Mafiakill cannot be used that cycle'.

Killing Vector for their Dweller mask would be pointless, all hats automatically go to Trick when the owner dies. Tric can you confirm that you got the mask when vector died?

You have your own auto for picking up items from dead players. I don't know how those two would interact, but it's still possible that yours trumps Tric's, depending on the mechanisms involved. I'll concede the point if Tric says they got it.

Also, how do you expect a townie to have gotten ahold of Excalibur? They would have to steal from Tric, who’s pretty blatantly town. Only scum would try to steal from town.

Doesn't necessarily mean they stole it. Any number of other effects could be in play that could result in them getting the gun instead of Tric. Or they might disagree with the fact that Tric is town - you think he's town, I think he's town, but that doesn't mean everyone does.

As for your point about quickhammering outing scum, it doesn’t matter. If the quickhammerer marks themselves out to be scum, the game will already be over at that point. All it takes is for one more townie to die, and the mafia will win.

False. It'll be bad, but it won't be game over. Read the alignments section of the first post. The mafia win condition has two clauses, not one. Basically, even if they outnumber or equal us, as long as they can still be wiped out somehow or reduced to the point where their numbers are no longer sufficient, the game doesn't end. You should definitely take advantage of that if a townie is lynched - find someone who's scum and shoot them dead.

Well. Assuming you're town, which I don't think is the case.

Fallacy, if we don’t act, they’re going to do the hammer. If Excalibur is somehow in the hands of town, then they should reveal themselves. If they do, then we’ll be able to breathe easy since then we would have reassurance that it isn’t in the wrong hands. And then we would be able to have a proper discussion.

I'd definitely appreciate it if someone could verify the existence of Excalibur. As of right now there's no proof that a vote-manipulating gun even exists.

Scum don’t hammer if the vote is on scum. If Vector isn’t scum, then it’s very likely that NJW is one.

If I was scum, I would absolutely hammer my fellow villain if it made me look town. And if I could think of doing that, it means anyone else could too.

Whatever's the case, this hypothetical hammer has failed to emerge. Whyever that is the case, it means there's time to talk. So come on then, give me some more detail. Why should be I voting NJW2000, who's done middling town gameplay all game, as opposed to you, the trigger happy vigilante/mafioso/serial killer? I'm willing to listen.

[NJW2000]

NJW
I’m surprised you people keep asking me whether I killed Vector. The answer should be pretty obvious and I spell it out here.

If you don’t you’re going to learn the hard way why I was so desperate to kill Vector.

Sorry about that, thought you meant you'd been trying to lynch Vector. Well, good that all that's established.


Heydude:

Scum don’t hammer if the vote is on scum. If Vector isn’t scum, then it’s very likely that NJW is one.

Or if the people voting are already scum. Want to explain the reasoning on the underlined bit?



Ehh. I slightly feel I wasted the end of the day with that nonsense. Tch, wasn't a great evening for me, but nothing to do but press on.

At this point, I'm a lot more willing to believe Vector's claim that this is the way Leafsnail plays as scum... I don't like the idea of policy lurker lynches in a game with strong mechanical tells, especially as they don't give much info on the people making the case, and it seems a bit unfair on people with time constraints, but as Vector's town-confirmed... This, plus a growing doubt in my gut-reads or indeed general competency, would lead me to be much more sympathetic to a vote on him now. Nonetheless, a stronger "policy" lynch presents itself: Heydude, for killing... everybody. Which is annoying, as my gutread on Heydude has been pretty strongly Town all game.




Got my watch results. My target (should have been LuckyOwl) was visited by TricMagic. What gives, TricMagic?

[TricMagic]

No clue whatsoever given I got beat up and roleblocked.

[Leafsnail]

Well that was some stupid bullshit last night. I think it's unlikely NJW is scum though - "comes back to life after being lynched" is not an ability you give mafia members very often.

Anyway, Mafia didn’t kill again last night. Let’s try to see if we can get to the bottom of that mystery.

I have a suggestion.

The only thing I tried this time was to fire a tracking dart at Leafsnail, only to get role blocked. Probably by him.

heydude6. Also this excalibur thing is bullshit.

Fuck! It may be too late!

Vector Vector

This post is actually within the deadline. And yet:

Vector - 2 - Leafsnail*, heydude6*,

You're right that if someone had excalibur then they'd either claim as town, or use it to win as scum. And neither has happened. So what is the obvious conclusion to draw from that?

[Nirur Torir]

This post is actually within the deadline. And yet:

It's not in the deadline for ability use, as Wuba said 11-12 minutes before the vote that we had 5 minutes left to activate abilities.

We can safely assume that Excalibur isn't in the hands of scum. They'd have either won, or at least finished off Owl and hammered someone.

No clue whatsoever given I got beat up and roleblocked.

Is that paraphrased flavor text? It sounds like a mugging.

[heydude6]

@Fallacy and NJW

Every !scumcase that anyone has ever made against me hinges on the fact that I am attempting some brazen and blatant gambit. Every other possible scum suspect plays somewhat sensibly if they're scum, but for me to be scum, I have to do some really whacky shit! Also according to Fallacy, it means that I would need to have a very strange auto. If I had an auto like that which prevented me from killing, then my role would be pointless in the first place since I would be sacrificing the standard mafia-kill for a shitter mafia-kill that leaves an obvious calling card.

Lying about Excalibur would be another example of Wacky shit!

All my actions so far can easily explained by me being town and making a few mistakes, while to justify me being scum, you have to go through all of these strange hoops.


And to call me scum, would mean that you'd have to throw away the opinions of all the people who thought I was town. Even NJW is saying that I give off strong town reads, even while I'm trying to put him to the noose. If it weren't for Luckyowl's vote and our desperate situation, I wouldn't be advocating for his lynch and would instead choose Leafsnail. Out of all the players here, NJW is the only who consistently talks sense and doesn't fall down conspiratorial rabbit holes.


You know what. Unvote. I'll be placing my vote on Leafsnail after all. NJW's only sin was excusing Leafsnail's actions, and possibly coordinating his watcher claim with him. He might still be scum, but regardless about how you feel about the alignments of either I or him, Leafsnail looks like scum in either scenario.

If I was scum and Leafsnail was town, my team and I would have quickhammered Leafsnail while Vector and Luckyowl were voting, and then I would have done my daykill tomorrow, securing my scum team a victory.

If I was scum and Leafsnail was also scum, you could interpret my day kill as a poorly thought out attempt to save my buddy's life.

If I am town and NJW is scum, then him and Leafsnail are a likely scum team who coordinated NJW's watcher claim. Plus it would explain the way he excused leafsnail's scummy behaviour.

If NJW and I are both town, then the only possible scum teams would be the following (since we're pretty sure Tric is town)

Fallacy, LuckyOwl, Nirur Torir

Fallacy, Nirur Torir, Leafsnail

Fallacy, Leafsnail, Luckyowl.

Luckyowl, Nirur Torir, Leafsnail


I trust Fallacy and I trust Luckyowl and they both have to be scum for leafsnail not to be scum in a !townheydude and !townNJW scenario.

Ninjaed

Well that was some stupid bullshit last night. I think it's unlikely NJW is scum though - "comes back to life after being lynched" is not an ability you give mafia members very often.

Anyway, Mafia didn’t kill again last night. Let’s try to see if we can get to the bottom of that mystery.

I have a suggestion.

The only thing I tried this time was to fire a tracking dart at Leafsnail, only to get role blocked. Probably by him.

If I was mafia, I would have used my fast-hatter badge to secure the night-kill. Since I was town, I used it to give my excalibur to Trickmagic. That part of the action went through, though this does unfortunately mean that any thieves that targeted Trick will have a access to it. Unless you want to come up with some other explanation for what happened to my badge.

You can't deny the fact that I have the badge, since Dolores publicly bought it for me. For night 2, I either used my badge and Webadict refunded me when he realized he did the error. Or the error was a complete fake and I never used my badge at all. Either way I'd still have it for night 3.

heydude6. Also this excalibur thing is bullshit.

Fuck! It may be too late!

Vector Vector

This post is actually within the deadline. And yet:

Vector - 2 - Leafsnail*, heydude6*,

Webadict has a policy that no action can come be performed 5 minutes before the final deadline. My Excalibur action was 2 and a half minutes before the deadline and that's why it didn't go through.

Webadict! Can you confirm the above for everyone?

You're right that if someone had excalibur then they'd either claim as town, or use it to win as scum. And neither has happened. So what is the obvious conclusion to draw from that?

It hasn't been that much time yet. Every scum has to be present at the same time to coordinate, plus they need to wait for Webadict. Winter break is over for most of us. If Excalibur dude does his action early, town could quickly hammer him in retaliation. He'll only do his coup-de-grace once two 2 votes have been placed on top of a town.

[heydude6]

Frankly speaking, it's only a matter of time until they hammer me. Everyone seems to have already arrived, so I do genuinely wonder what's keeping them.

[heydude6]

Got my watch results. My target (should have been LuckyOwl) was visited by TricMagic. What gives, TricMagic?

If you're scum, you're probably making this up to discredit Trick.

[Nirur Torir]

You know what. Unvote. I'll be placing my vote on Leafsnail after all. NJW's only sin was excusing Leafsnail's actions, and possibly coordinating his watcher claim with him. He might still be scum, but regardless about how you feel about the alignments of either I or him, Leafsnail looks like scum in either scenario.

If I was scum and Leafsnail was town, my team and I would have quickhammered Leafsnail while Vector and Luckyowl were voting, and then I would have done my daykill tomorrow, securing my scum team a victory.

If I was scum and Leafsnail was also scum, you could interpret my day kill as a poorly thought out attempt to save my buddy's life.

If I am town and NJW is scum, then him and Leafsnail are a likely scum team who coordinated NJW's watcher claim. Plus it would explain the way he excused leafsnail's scummy behaviour.

If NJW and I are both town, then the only possible scum teams would be the following (since we're pretty sure Tric is town)

Fallacy, LuckyOwl, Nirur Torir

Fallacy, Nirur Torir, Leafsnail

Fallacy, Leafsnail, Luckyowl.

Luckyowl, Nirur Torir, Leafsnail

You're very flipfloppy, and defend pulling away from NJW with even more WIFOM.

Frankly speaking, it's only a matter of time until they hammer me. Everyone seems to have already arrived, so I do genuinely wonder what's keeping them.

At a guess, I'd say it's because scum doesn't generally like hammering each other.

[heydude6]

Nirur Torir

I love how you dismiss an entire post as WIFOM without having to address the good points that are actually in there. You just hope that people take your word at face value and don’t actually read the post to come to a conclusion by themselves.

Also, isn’t whole idea of Excalibur being fake WIFOM? But you didn’t have a problem with that since it was being used to attack a Towny.

You did this during the contract shenanigans in day 1 as well Nirur. You responded to that post with your trademark phrase while the people who would eventually flip as town concluded I was town from it.

[heydude6]

Frankly speaking, it's only a matter of time until they hammer me. Everyone seems to have already arrived, so I do genuinely wonder what's keeping them.

At a guess, I'd say it's because scum doesn't generally like hammering each other.

Or maybe, now this is just a guess here, it isn’t enough for scum to tie the vote. Maybe they need to lynch someone legitimately today because they need Excalibur for tomorrow. Scum hasn’t gotten a single legit night-kill this entire game and maybe they’re afraid of ending up in a deadlock of protects.

[Nirur Torir]

If you want me to stop calling you out for spilling wine everywhere, then stop trying to make me drink it. Townies can, and absolutely should, defend themselves without WIFOM.

[heydude6]

It’s a deadlock they’ll only be safe from once they become the majority.

[Nirur Torir]

Scum hasn’t gotten a single legit night-kill this entire game

I'm not sure on that one, Mr. Night Killer.

[heydude6]

If you want me to stop calling you out for spilling wine everywhere, then stop trying to make me drink it. Townies can, and absolutely should, defend themselves without WIFOM.

It’s not WIFOM when the two choices are “Definitely win the game” and “maybe win the game” and you’re trying to argue that the scum are deliberately choosing “maybe win the game”

You also didn’t address the Fake Excalibur hypocrisy. Probably cause you’re afraid that you don’t know how to.