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[Vector]

How have I broken the games formal rules by failing to count to seven? I literally don't understand. Are you saying I should have been modkilled for posting after a hammer?

I may have misunderstood the "when this ability is used by Vector, people in the deadchat may be chosen instead" (lightly paraphrased) part. Thank you for confirming that part though - I was wondering why scum would have an ability that lets the dead majority vote. Makes perfect sense that Vector could control who chose - which will obviously just be Jim Groovester.

You have misunderstood. If I had it and I were scum, yes, I could have chosen that just Jim Groovester votes. However, I'm Town and I chose to give the role away to LuckyOwl.

I do not have the action. You have it and it is an auto, therefore the "if Vector uses this" does not apply. A majority of the people who are dead will choose an action on your behalf each phase starting D4. Regardless of your alignment, because the dead are majority flipped town and will remain majority flipped town no matter what happens, this is good for town.

Are you trying to manipulate me into defending him? You build a case that someone's mafia, not that someone's town.

The latter part of this is naive.

I'm asking you to explain how it is that a player who has posted less than half as much as most other players is a good town player. You seem to think that Leafsnail is "more town" than:

FoU - used a redirect which resulted in a townie dying, but has been actively scumhunting and brought a case on Jim at the beginning of D2 when no one else had one. I can bring receipts on that second part if you need them.

Tric - well, I'm not going to object to your claim there. Tric is still trying to lynch over hats on D3.

Me - has posted more than any other player currently in the game, actions confirmed by a CT N1, and gave away an ability this morning which is great for town but would suck for scum-me to lose.

You're picking at people making small mistakes and ignoring serious pro-town behavior in order to make a complete non-case. You're claiming that the passive lurker is town.

And what I'm asking is: can you point to any pro-town action whatsoever that Leafsnail has taken at any point in this game?

[Leafsnail]

1. Do you have an ability to swap out people's abilites with another one?
2. Are you able to mess with alignment inspects?
3. Do you think I know the answer to the two questions above?

1. No.
2. My self-bussing ability could.
3. If you read my roleclaim then yes.

Yeah, I posted that before I did the informal vote count, oops. I thought the situation was reversed: three votes on Leafsnail and yours on heydude, or a tie -- whatever, point is, I didn't know heydude was a clear leader for the lynch.

You know now. Are you finally going to back up your fake heydude case with a vote?

Yes, I have that auto, and I didn’t claim it because it was insignificant. I thought it was one of those abilities everybody had, and they didn’t claim it.

I also never got anything from it. Tric has a monopoly on hats and and nobody else who died had any other items.

That doesn't make any sense. If everyone had that ability then what, would it go to a random person? Would everyone receive a copy of the item?

You had longer to prepare your claim than anyone else, I think it's reasonable to expect you to claim it in full. It could also have mattered if someone with an item died today.

[Vector]

Damn it. I wrote a post for this earlier and it looks like I killed it by accident while trying to copy-paste it into my main tab.

Vector: I will be frank with you. When you agree to my plan. I felt it was a bit fishy and out of character. My plan was obviously flaw why would Heydude6 attack when I say we should sabotage his attack? Not only that. FOU already used his fast hatter badge. So how would he redirect Heydude6?

Vector: Earlier on, you thought heydude and I were confirmed scum by LuckyOwl. You can't lie about this. You voted Leafsnail with LuckyOwl instead. You can't lie about this.
Why didn't you vote someone you thought was confirmed scum?

Honestly? Because if we "know" who all three members of the scumteam are and mechanical confirmations are suspect (see the Toaster debacle), we should probably still lynch the one whose daygame seems the most off. Of you, Leafsnail, and heydude, I saw it as Leafsnail > you > heydude.

Now that you've tried to get FoU lynched over a redirect, that changes slightly to you > Leafsnail > heydude.

So at present, in terms of behavioral cues, I'm quite sure that you're scum and pretty sure that Leafsnail is scum. Despite that I'm glad to go with Leafsnail for the lynch so that we don't have him directing the scumteam, and in order to keep the slight mechanical advantage I've given town.

[Vector]

You know now. Are you finally going to back up your fake heydude case with a vote?

No. I won't switch my vote unless something wild happens (see NJW picking up the ability I was passing out) or we're in danger of a tie. You're at the top of my list to lynch today, then NJW, then heydude.

[NJW2000]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

How have I broken the games formal rules by failing to count to seven? I literally don't understand. Are you saying I should have been modkilled for posting after a hammer?

I may have misunderstood the "when this ability is used by Vector, people in the deadchat may be chosen instead" (lightly paraphrased) part. Thank you for confirming that part though - I was wondering why scum would have an ability that lets the dead majority vote. Makes perfect sense that Vector could control who chose - which will obviously just be Jim Groovester.

You have misunderstood. If I had it and I were scum, yes, I could have chosen that just Jim Groovester votes. However, I'm Town and I chose to give the role away to LuckyOwl.

I do not have the action. You have it and it is an auto, therefore the "if Vector uses this" does not apply. A majority of the people who are dead will choose an action on your behalf each phase starting D4. Regardless of your alignment, because the dead are majority flipped town and will remain majority flipped town no matter what happens, this is good for town.

Are you trying to manipulate me into defending him? You build a case that someone's mafia, not that someone's town.

The latter part of this is naive.

I'm asking you to explain how it is that a player who has posted less than half as much as most other players is a good town player. You seem to think that Leafsnail is "more town" than:

FoU - used a redirect which resulted in a townie dying, but has been actively scumhunting and brought a case on Jim at the beginning of D2 when no one else had one. I can bring receipts on that second part if you need them.

Tric - well, I'm not going to object to your claim there. Tric is still trying to lynch over hats on D3.

Me - has posted more than any other player currently in the game, actions confirmed by a CT N1, and gave away an ability this morning which is great for town but would suck for scum-me to lose.

You're picking at people making small mistakes and ignoring serious pro-town behavior in order to make a complete non-case. You're claiming that the passive lurker is town.

And what I'm asking is: can you point to any pro-town action whatsoever that Leafsnail has taken at any point in this game?

Not saying that you should have been modkilled, but that incident was what I was referring to, yes.

I tend to lynch on anti-town or scummy actions, not an absence of pro-town actions. Leafsnail has made posts with content and asked people questions - fewer, yes, but not questions like "why did you hammer, heydude?" or posts like "whoops, I see why redirecting a kill away from Town's #2 lynch candidate might be a bad idea, sorry". Not much of what he's posted strikes me as rubbish - something that's in stark contrast to someone who's posted  "more than any player in the game".

What you're saying about the ability makes sense- that's how I thought it worked.

Vector: Earlier on, you thought heydude and I were confirmed scum by LuckyOwl. You can't lie about this. You voted Leafsnail with LuckyOwl instead. You can't lie about this.
Why didn't you vote someone you thought was confirmed scum?

Honestly? Because if we "know" who all three members of the scumteam are and mechanical confirmations are suspect (see the Toaster debacle), we should probably still lynch the one whose daygame seems the most off. Of you, Leafsnail, and heydude, I saw it as Leafsnail > you > heydude.

Now that you've tried to get FoU lynched over a redirect, that changes slightly to you > Leafsnail > heydude.

So at present, in terms of behavioral cues, I'm quite sure that you're scum and pretty sure that Leafsnail is scum. Despite that I'm glad to go with Leafsnail for the lynch so that we don't have him directing the scumteam, and in order to keep the slight mechanical advantage I've given town.

So how did you "know" Leafsnail was scum then? Are your reads stronger than mechanical confirmations in the context of this game?

[TricMagic]

Vote Count
------------------------
FallacyofUrist - 0 -
heydude6 - 3 - Nirur Torir*, Leafsnail*, Luckyowl*,
Leafsnail - 1 - Vector*,
Luckyowl - 0 -
Nirur Torir - 0 -
NJW2000 - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
Vector - 2 - TricMagic*, NJW2000*,
No Lynch - 0 -

Not Voting - 2 - FallacyofUrist, heydude6,

5 to Hammer. Day ends on January 07, 2021 at 19:00 CST (2 hours and 44 minutes remaining.)

So, we got Fal probably going to drop a vote down, heydude who definitely will, and Leafsnail voting Heydude.

... When did you give up an ability Vector? And keep in mind I do not trust you. If you gave up the mask I would not care about you nearly as much, but you didn't..

NJW, did you receive such an auto?

Alos Leafsnail. Like it or not but you have been lurking. Why are you voting heydude?

[TricMagic]

I'm going to be here till day end. Not much time left though.

[Leafsnail]

Alos Leafsnail. Like it or not but you have been lurking. Why are you voting heydude?

You can check back through my posts for more details. Some key points:
- only player in the game who has made kills
- has on multiple occasions falsely presented his claimed kills as a thing that suggests he's town
- multiple contradictions arising from (very late) claim
- Vector made up a transparently bullshit case against heydude6 but has been very careful not to vote him, even now that heydude is the leading wagon and there are only 2 hours left in the day. Read through Vector's line of attack and behaviour regarding heydude today and think about whether it reads like they're scumbuddies.

I am also happy to vote for Vector.

[Vector]

So how did you "know" Leafsnail was scum then? Are your reads stronger than mechanical confirmations in the context of this game?

I would normally prioritize cop results over any read. However, we have hard evidence that cop results can be messed with. For that reason, I was willing to lynch on Leafsnail's Number One scumtell and the fact that I have not seen them take a single pro-town action so far this game, over mechanical results which we know to be unreliable.

I'm asking you to point to anything Leafsnail has done, whatsoever, that is indisputably pro-town. Any night or day action. Any post.

Your specious argument on FoU rests on FoU knowing that they were redirecting a kill. Absurd.

Spoiler: Calling NT the #2 lynch candidate for D2 is also absurd. (click to show/hide)

Vote Count
------------------------
dolores - 0 -
FallacyofUrist - 0 -
heydude6 - 0 -
IcyTea31 - 2 - Luckyowl*, Toaster*,
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Leafsnail - 0 -
Luckyowl - 0 -
Nirur Torir - 0 -
NJW2000 - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
Toaster - 8 - Nirur Torir*, Leafsnail*, notquitethere*, NJW2000*, IcyTea31*, Vector*, FallacyofUrist*, heydude6*,
TricMagic - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No Lynch - 0 -

Not Voting - 3 - TricMagic*, dolores, Jim Groovester,

Your argument on me focuses on my making stupid posts while sleep-deprived. You surely cannot claim that the majority of my activity has been shitposting.

You are also willing to brush aside that I gave you an ability which would be outright idiocy to transfer to anyone else if I were scum. You have confirmed, here, that it works as you suspect:

What you're saying about the ability makes sense- that's how I thought it worked.

You will also note that I did not want to publicly claim my day actions:

Vector: what have you been doing during the day? Mechanically?

Oh, also: you answering this is probably better than me doing it, whatever alignment you are.

No. I'm pretty sure you're scum and I'm not responding to role information requests unless someone who I'm pretty sure is town backs you up. To be specific: I'll consider it if there's a follow-up request from Lucky Owl and/or FallacyofUrist.

For this reason, any assertion that I gave the ability away in order to publicly generate towncred would be nonsensical. Note also that I gave away the ability when I was not a lynch candidate, and if I were on the scumteam, would be doing so while in a winning position (LYLO).

Note also that I did not intend to give you the role in the first place, rather LuckyOwl, so any assertion that I were attempting to beguile you in particular with WIFOM would be specious.

Note that even if LuckyOwl were scum, town would still be choosing LuckyOwl's actions. Therefore an assertion that I could be passing the role to my scumbuddy does not make sense.


Would you like to explain how I can possibly still be scum?

[Vector]

TRIC:

NJW, did you receive such an auto?

You really need to read the thread. NJW confirmed receipt of my auto before I publicly acknowledged it. See the below two posts.

Vector: what have you been doing during the day? Mechanically?

Oh, also: you answering this is probably better than me doing it, whatever alignment you are.

No. I'm pretty sure you're scum and I'm not responding to role information requests unless someone who I'm pretty sure is town backs you up. To be specific: I'll consider it if there's a follow-up request from Lucky Owl and/or FallacyofUrist.

Also, Vector actioned LuckyOwl, trying to give them an ability which... charges, lets dead players vote on using my abilities, and if I'm Vector, lets them use one from a dead player instead. Want to keep that a secret? Can't see why.

I know because I switched with LuckyOwl today, and got the ability instead. Thanks!

[Vector]

Oh, one more reason why I'm not jumping on the heydude bandwagon:

NJW and Leafsnail are both scum in a winning position (it's LYLO; see my posts for evidence that they are buddies), and Leaf wants us to vote heydude. This makes it less likely in my book that heydude is actually scum because there would be no need for a bus in LYLO. I have less evidence on heydude, whereas the evidence on an NJW-Leafsnail pair keeps rolling in. NJW by his own actions, Leafsnail on the Number One Scumtell and by being protected ardently by NJW.

[Leafsnail]

And just like that, the case against heydude6 disappears now that he might actually be lynched.

[heydude6]

Alos Leafsnail. Like it or not but you have been lurking. Why are you voting heydude?

You can check back through my posts for more details. Some key points:
- only player in the game who has made kills

Correction, successfully made kills. You're still clinging to the retarded idea that I was the scum's only nightkiller

- has on multiple occasions falsely presented his claimed kills as a thing that suggests he's town

Citations please? I definitely didn't do that during day 2, but I can see how you can misconstrue part 3 of my megapost. Key word is misconstrue. I'm pretty sure I ended up saying that in the most logical !scum heydude scenario, (me nightkilling alongside a standard nightkill that kept failing), the only way to tell the difference between !townme and !scumme is through my behaviour in the day phases.

Spoiler: Yup, I did! (click to show/hide)

Let's go back to the idea of my colleagues being blocked during day 2 as well as day 1. I was the only scum who got succesful kills due to a plausible coincidence (besides the scum who performed the 4maskwolf lightning strike). Then I get redirected into NQT, due to bad luck.

At this point I have ask what about this situation is different from a !town vigilante that was redirected by a dumb towny. Both !scum me and !town me failed to hit our intended targets, so you can't use NQT's flip to get a read. You could have if you disputed whether the redirect actually happened, but we're well past that point I hope. The only way you can tell the two of us apart is by analyzing our behaviour, but you just hop on the gambit train again.

- multiple contradictions arising from (very late) claim

You gonna cite those contradictions (or perhaps anything you just said), or am I just supposed to assume you're scum trying to push a lynch?

Ninjaed

[Leafsnail]

All of those points were just summaries of posts I have made earlier in the day. For instance, here are the two cases where you tried to argue you were clear, and my rebuttals:

Finally, if I were scum I wouldn't be the person doing the night-kill. One of my buddies would have done it instead and avoided this whole situation in the first place. Like you pointed out, I leave a very obvious calling card and thus every death can always be traced back to me. If all of my buddies were no-bonked, only then I would have to do the scumkill and pull this gambit. To rule out such a situation, we can look at the people who were no-bonked and try to evaluate their scumminess. If they are sufficiently scummy though, then they should be lynched before me since there's stronger evidence against them.

heydude6, this is completely backwards. If you're a mafia member pulling a gambit (and given that no other nightkills have happened this game I think that's a strong possibility) then you may have to be the one making the kill precisely because of your obvious calling card. If another member of your team did the kill and it didn't have the "HP loss" flavour and you still tried to claim it as your own everyone would think it's suspicious. In addition, the redirect story currently doesn't add up given that you claimed using a badge that would stop redirects.

Anyway, I hope this claim kills any idea of me being the mafia's dedicated nightkiller since my kills rely on spending a consumable resource that can technically be replenished, but is overall worse than a standard mafia night kill.

Most guns fire bullets that only do 1 damage. If I fire both shots at the same person, that leaves them with 1 HP. I need to get lucky in order to oneshot.

There is no evidence that this is true. In fact, there is strong counterevidence - you have successfully made two kills in a row, and previously claimed to be a vigilante.

[Vector]

Vector: Earlier on, you thought heydude and I were confirmed scum by LuckyOwl. You can't lie about this. You voted Leafsnail with LuckyOwl instead. You can't lie about this.

Wait a sec, this is false. I voted heydude with LuckyOwl, not Leafsnail. When it became clear that LuckyOwl wasn't claiming cop, I voted Leafsnail. Here are the posts:

I think I got two confirm mafia. NJW and Heydude6.

--

So inspect the possibility of NJW, Heydude6, and TricMagic to be the remaining scum team. More likely Leafsnail is third party.

So I won't vote for leafsnail and will place my vote on Heydude6.

LO, I'm willing to trust your inspect results. If you're scum then I will say "good game, you deserved to win," with pride. Heydude6.

Actually, how would people be with a LuckyOwl or FoU lynch? While the Toaster stuff did demonstrate that mechanical clears aren't necessarily the be all and end all, I'm a bit taken aback by the sudden accumulation of votes.

We are a small handful of hours from the end of the day. Obviously people had better be voted now.

No, I do not want to lynch our THIRD claimed cop. I want to lynch one of the two people who have peeked red, as suggested by LO, the player who up until their claimed inspect result was practically seen as a confirmed townie.

As far as I could understand, when LuckyOwl said:

I think I got two confirm mafia. NJW and Heydude6.

NJW: When you replied to my plan. You grumbled, and dismissed it as a newbie plan and it may be. Yes. But if you were town you would've guide me to a better thought process.

Heydude6: The same as NJW. You try make me look foolish instead of tackling what I say. Plus. I don't like your logic.

He was going on thread analysis, apparently. Doesn't look like a copclaim.

ugh jesus fuck unvote

I thought that the reads below that were in-thread supporting evidence for a daycop ability. I'm gonna go take a nap.

No, wait. Don't want to oversleep. Leafsnail.