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[notquitethere]

Leafsnail

notquitethere. Your actions at the end of day one make no sense. You switched between three separate wagons using your vote ability to try to save yourself, and now you have the cheek to try and claim that you were right about the guy you got lynched. We know there is a lylo-breaker in the game and I have no intention of letting you live to be one.

I also strongly suspect some of your buddies switched their votes to save you and I'll be looking into the late ToonyMan votes.

Here's how they make sense:

- I thought Toony was most likely not scum because of the shape of the day 24 hours before then end. I try to push on to you.
- When the CFD went down and I thought I might die, I was under the impression that the vote on you was no longer possible (I was on my phone and was struggling to keep up with events), so when Tric voted me, I took their vote and pushed for a Tric vote as although I didn't think Tric was the best candidate, I liked them better than lynching Toony and I thought that a Tric lynch had a sizeable backing
- But ten minutes before the end I looked like I was still going to die, so in an act of self preservation I colluded with Dolores to swap my vote onto Toony, who I didn't want to lynch but was prepared to over myself.

You wanting to kill a LYLO-breaking town player is entirely consistent with mafia's wincon, but OK. I would genuinely like to see your results of looking into the EOD votes.

[4maskwolf]

Quick reminder NQT: ICT can’t be scum unless I’m scum, and the inverse. Any scum!ICT world by definition includes scum!4mask.

[webadict]

Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 1 - Toaster*,
dolores - 1 - notquitethere*,
FallacyofUrist - 1 - Luckyowl*,
heydude6 - 0 -
IcyTea31 - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 1 - FallacyofUrist*,
juicebox - 0 -
Leafsnail - 2 - 4maskwolf*, heydude6*,
Luckyowl - 0 -
Nirur Torir - 2 - dolores*, Vector*,
NJW2000 - 0 -
notquitethere - 1 - Leafsnail*,
Toaster - 1 - TricMagic*,
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No Lynch - 0 -

Not Voting - 6 - Nirur Torir, ToonyMan, juicebox, NJW2000, IcyTea31, Jim Groovester,

9 to Hammer. Day ends on January 03, 2021 at 19:00 CST (~79 hours remaining).

[Toaster]

Dolores:

Toaster
What do you think about the fact that NQT just said that he was posting from phone and genuinely thought "his head was on the block"?

Speaking of IcyTea and 4maskwolf, IcyTea and by extension 4maskwolf are mafia.  I have reason to suspect we should lynch 4maskwolf first and IcyTea tomorrow (or better yet someone shoot him at night.)

Gonna let us in on what this is?

I had a limited inspect I thought would be great to use on one of them as a two-for-one deal.  I got a nice big red mafia result.  I'm 100% not going to sit on that kind of result.

[Toaster]

Toaster
What do you think about the fact that NQT just said that he was posting from phone and genuinely thought "his head was on the block"?

Hmm.  I'm not sure I put a lot of value in it.  I suppose it takes away a few townie points from him, but on balance it's not a huge difference.

[notquitethere]

ICT, it was dead air 24 hours before the end. But you're right, in the last four hours of the day there was a blizzard of activity. This could suggest that one of Leafsnail or Tric were scum.

4mask, I had been thinking mafia could easily have a false-mason ability to have a chat with a town player... but are you saying you have had mod confirmation of each other's alignment? I don't think Wuba would have a fake alignment confirmation power (though such things are very common on other mafia forums).

edit:

I had a limited inspect I thought would be great to use on one of them as a two-for-one deal.  I got a nice big red mafia result.  I'm 100% not going to sit on that kind of result.

Oh well, shoot, unvote 4maskwolf IcyTea31 , care to explain?

[dolores]

Dolores, why was it so important to you that Toony die instead of TricMagic?

Did you miss all of day 1? Are you seriously asking this?
Toony was scummy as fuck. Nobody that claimed there were problems with my case on him went through it and demonstrated any of them. If you had a problem with my case on Toony, then why didn't you say something? If you didn't want ToonyMan to die, you could have said something about the case. I stand by killing ToonyMan.
Tric I maintain I have no particular reason to think isn't town. I don't especially feel strong that he is town, but I gave my confidence on Toony being scum as 80-90%. Why would I have the slightest doubt in wanting the player I'm 80-90% convinced is scum to live and a player I have no reason to think is scum die?

[IcyTea31]

ICT moves from Toony onto NQT for some figleaf reason.

Fair, I really only voted you to put more and more pressure on you in the CFD. I was mostly following 4mask's lead in the EOD, having already decided Toony was the best lynch. I wasn't really counting the votes beyond making sure I wouldn't hammer.

ICT saved Tric twice, but also swapped off of NQT onto Toony, which was unnecessary if they were Tric's ally.

Saying I acted twice to protect Tric is a inaccurate, but it's true I wouldn't have liked lynching him as he's currently a townread for me. Leafsnail I didn't really care about; lynchable as a lurker but lower in priority than Toony the actually scummy player.

That is a good post, and I'll be mulling over the implications.

I had a limited inspect I thought would be great to use on one of them as a two-for-one deal.  I got a nice big red mafia result.

How many actions did you perform last night?

[notquitethere]

Dolores

Did you miss all of day 1? Are you seriously asking this?
Toony was scummy as fuck. Nobody that claimed there were problems with my case on him went through it and demonstrated any of them. If you had a problem with my case on Toony, then why didn't you say something? If you didn't want ToonyMan to die, you could have said something about the case. I stand by killing ToonyMan.
Tric I maintain I have no particular reason to think isn't town. I don't especially feel strong that he is town, but I gave my confidence on Toony being scum as 80-90%. Why would I have the slightest doubt in wanting the player I'm 80-90% convinced is scum to live and a player I have no reason to think is scum die?

I knew I could have read back, but I wanted to see what you had to say here and now about it. If you were  80-90% sure of Toony then why did you switch to voting me?

[notquitethere]

p.s. Dolroes, Again, it was D1, I had no info so it's not that I thought your case on Toony was bad. I don't work like that. It was that the structure of votes made it more likely than not that Toony was not scum. I've said this a few times now.

[heydude6]

All he had to do to save himself was single vote for Toony, making it 5-4-3 Toony-NQT-Leafsnail.  Popping his ability then was in no way necessary.  I still argue it was a dumb play regardless of his alignment, but it would be a terrible mistake for Mafia NQT. NQT's no dummy and I suspect he knows this.  I'm not saying this is a guarantee of townhood, but it's an extremely solid clue; enough that I am in no way interested in lynching him any time soon.

Toaster. Let me use your logic to more convincingly argue for the opposite conclusion

List of Premises

• There was a simple way to save himself that didn't involve making such a fuss
• Popping a LYLO breaker is a terrible idea. Especially as mafia
• NQT knows this
• Despite knowing, he decided to pop it anyway

If we take these premises as given, then !town NQT would have been too smart to pop it in the first place. Mafia NQT on the other hand, does have one reason to do this. It makes him look like town, since what kind of mafia would so eagerly shoot himself in the foot like that? This was my main defense during the contract shenanigans, and the response I got from nearly everybody is that's it's totally worth it to shoot yourself like this if it makes !scumYou appear as a confirmed townie.

With the logic I put forward, we must conclude that NQT is mafia.

Or we could dispute one of your premises. I would dispute number 3. NQT clearly acted rashly and in that case, he was capable of making a mistake as either town or mafia. 4maskwolf had the right idea:

Normally I wouldn't believe that NQT had actually used a potential LYLO breaker for a weak self-pres, but I just watched him crack like an egg under the slightest hint of pressure, so at this point literally anything is possible.

Don't give him a free pass Toaster. It very well could be this:

a genius/*intelligence-slur* gambit by !scumNQT to push a lynch on Toony

[NJW2000]

Rereading the thread, or trying to...

General thoughts at start of day: disappointed and remorseful about the Toonyman flip, not sure what to think about the Juicebox thing, glad there are roleflips now (not sure why there should be, perhaps someone modified a role with comments).

I think we should induce a highly suspicious player who doesn't have a confirmable night action to take this badge by the end of the day:

This would require a fair bit of claiming. I have a pretty clear picture of what a lot of people were doing last night, but I'm not sure we're at that stage yet.

PPE: Nope, looks like we're there!

Speaking of IcyTea and 4maskwolf, IcyTea and by extension 4maskwolf are mafia.  I have reason to suspect we should lynch 4maskwolf first and IcyTea tomorrow (or better yet someone shoot him at night.)

Yeah, I'm pretty interested in this, please explain. Thus far I haven't known what to make of him.
PPE: Ok, you explained it, let's see how this goes.

IcyTea:

Vector: you were popular last night. Did you receive any feedback from all the actions that were played on you?

Is this a claim, IcyTea?

I do claim to know that several actions were played on Vector last night, yes.

No, I'm not going to leave it at this. How do you know that several actions were played on Vector?

And if you accuse me of rolefishing when I'm just trying to get what seems to be a Watcher claim on the table, during a 16-person high-powered BYOR, I swear to god...

PPE: I'm happy to resolve this after the Toaster thing plays out.

[dolores]

If you were  80-90% sure of Toony then why did you switch to voting me?

I'd have preferred a NQT lynch over a TricMagic lynch. My read on you at that point (pre-double-vote) wasn't very dissimilar to my soft-scum read on Leafsnail earlier (mostly over inactivity) and I hadn't caught that you were pfp and had no idea what the motivation for the double-vote was.

It was that the structure of votes made it more likely than not that Toony was not scum. I've said this a few times now.

Sure, but I both don't fully understand or buy into this.

glad there are roleflips now (not sure why there should be, perhaps someone modified a role with comments).

juicebox was the one blocking them.

[IcyTea31]

No, I'm not going to leave it at this. How do you know that several actions were played on Vector?

Remind me if I don't answer this before EOD. But it looks like it'll come up on its own soon.

[NJW2000]

glad there are roleflips now (not sure why there should be, perhaps someone modified a role with comments).

juicebox was the one blocking them.

I thought that was Mamobo with [No Spoilers].

No, I'm not going to leave it at this. How do you know that several actions were played on Vector?

Remind me if I don't answer this before EOD. But it looks like it'll come up on its own soon.

Understood.