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[dolores]

IcyTea31 why sk anyway? It doesn't seem to me like it'd be very common at all that the ability would kill anyone or that it's so strong that a scumteam couldn't have it. I'm assuming bonus wincons are just a thing since I have one, and I assume that applies to the scumteam as well if there is one, so I can easily see like a 'win with scum or collect this many contracts' sort of situation  being true.

dolores: Why is NJW2000 rated so highly as town in your reads list? There's not as much detail about your read on them as you have on your reads of, say, Vector or heydude.

Because it's a stronger read than on Vector. The read is longer on vector because there are caveats. I don't have a like 'but I'd like to see them doing more work D1' disclaimer on NJW like I do on other players. I think they're involved in what's probably the best case of the day right now and I think they've been quietly diligently doing work in the thread and have more results to show for it and have given a better display of their thoughts than anyone else.
I mean, I challenged you to complain about their D1 play. Do you have a reason to think that they're not town? Because every time I read their posts, it makes me think they're probably town, and nothing in the thread I've seen makes me consider that I need to contradict that.

I need to collect myself and go over it again, but my impressions of the NJW/ToonyMan interaction about the heydude saga is that Toony is selectively quoting things and speaking in a reductionist manner which encourages you to gloss over the flaws in his reasoning and the fact that he's claiming to have beliefs which although I believe the conclusions are correct, (i.e. I agree with his reads) the logic is flawed in a which which town!ToonyMan would have caught if he had used that reasoning to reach those conclusions. I think that that bad logic is evidence of him already knowing what's happening because he's scum.
Reading NJW's initial accusation gives a hugely different impression than reading the cut down extract in the frame of the response, and at no point in the quote pyramid does it seem like Toony either addresses NJW's original/central point or backs down over it. More on this later, I think this is super scummy behavior.

[webadict]

Webadict:  Are there four mafia and/or non-town players?  The opening flavor mentions four silhouettes.  If a Jester is lynched, does it end the game or do they just win and leave?

Can we get a LurkerTracker?

There are four Mafia players. Lynching a Jester would not end the game unless Shenanigans. You can get a Lurkertrack in a bit.

[IcyTea31]

IcyTea31 why sk anyway? It doesn't seem to me like it'd be very common at all that the ability would kill anyone or that it's so strong that a scumteam couldn't have it. I'm assuming bonus wincons are just a thing since I have one, and I assume that applies to the scumteam as well if there is one, so I can easily see like a 'win with scum or collect this many contracts' sort of situation  being true.

If I were designing a game, I wouldn't give mafia even the potential to perform three kills in a single day-night cycle, alongside all the abilities of their buddies. This is outguessing the mod, of course, and there are other explanations, but SK seems the most probable. Well, until the mod just confirmed that there is a 4-man scumteam, which heavily reduces the odds of there being very many third parties.

I do agree Toony is acting "town" and not town, and not actually putting much thought into scumhunting, but I'll want a response from Toaster first.

[TricMagic]

To note, haven't read the rest, but this is the last day of play for me. Given I have no more hats, and people are pushing to kill me, ala Toaster? I propose this scumteam.

Vector, Toaster, ToonyMan, Icyteam. This can also be read as my suspect list. Sure, IcyTea may not trust me, but if no-one trusts me it hurts town to not know what hats are in circulation and why the Dweller Mask in the hands of mafia is a Bad Thing.

So come down to 'Certified Bird' Hat Kid's Exposé!

First, Badge Seller. You guys know this, and I can pick badges I can buy. Apparently you guys can buy them too. I picked Fast Hatter in anticipation of being able to buy another tonight. I was thinking Item Magnet to take all the tech and guns, though haven't clarified if I'd use them on the attacker or just suicide. If suicide I have other badges that would be useful. (Though with others being able to buy them I'm locked into getting No Bonk Badge into stock tonight.)

Second, I am in New Game+, and some mustached person stole my hats and gave them out. I need to collect them again either by death or gift.

Third, I am THE Hat Kid. The hats are mine, and I can use two more hats each night.

To Hats. Shows Sprint Hat: Interception. Anyone that targets my target gets intercepted, and I'm the new target.
Time Stop Hat: Delay for a cycle.
Brewing Hat, AKA one of my win options to improve survival with the Compass Badge. I explode you, not the other way around. Roleblock.(Though could be kill cause I know mafia and town will both think that.)
Ice Hat, AKA my other win condition. Total protection from kills and guns, making me a doctor through Intercept. It can target others too, so don't need to use it on myself.
Dweller Mask, AKA Mafia's dream weapon. It generates random tech, badges, and guns. Which can then be used by the rest of the team in case of badges. Not all that useful compared to the others for me.


Also, make sure to Leave a Comment, am I town or mafia? Well, not the latter, I propose we all say DOWN WITH THE MAFIA instead. Holds up sign with a crossed out cook.

[dolores]

If I were designing a game, I wouldn't give mafia even the potential to perform three kills in a single day-night cycle, alongside all the abilities of their buddie

But the contract doesn't actually kill you unless you choose to die (or are inactive for the entire phase and time out), right? And having the option to kill yourself as town is objectively an advantage, because you can preclude a lynch being wasted on yourself. I both think that the ambient power level is enough for this not to really be surprising and don't think that it's really that strong. It's like, a (double) partial role inspect that's used in the day, with caveats. Maybe there's some intended combo where you can use a roleblock with it to get a kill?
Anyway, multikills are for-sure a thing in higher power webadict BYORs. Between the apparent limitations of the power, the fact it hasn't been claimed, and the fact that we now know there are 4 scum I think it's reasonable to assume it was a mafscum ability, not that that's particularly useful information unless we end up like retroactively using a watcher on you (two). Also, if it is a scum power and does seem odd to be used twice (and it is true that it was used twice), it could be a repeat of a situation like Tric's ByoS where our scumteam had a member who could double the uses of another member's non-scumkill ability.

[Leafsnail]

Leafsnail: why does Vector's post about ICT's 'slip' bother you so much more than Toasters, is it just because it's noncomittal? Since you don't believe in the 'slip' as a scumslip, how do you feel about the fact that Toaster is doubling down on it as such?

Yes, as I said the reason why Vector's posts bothered me is that it was noncommittal. I think that Toaster is wrong but being wrong is not a scumtell in and of itself.

Are you voting for the player you want lynched? Who else is scummy besides TricMagic?

Leafsnail, why should we lynch a player like Tric on D1?

Yes, I am voting for the player I want lynched. I found Tric's behaviour around buying the badge suspicious, and now that Tric has claimed a third party win condition lynching him is a no-brainer. Lynching someone who's guaranteed not to be town (but who could still easily be scum) is a much better option than you normally get on day one.

Vector is the other player I find suspicious for reasons stated above - I do not believe they've talked about it yet.

[TricMagic]

I don't actually win by collecting all the hats you know. If I did I never would have brought it up day 1.

[Toaster]

Well, a confirmed four Mafiosos means the core alignment structure of this game isn't too far insane.  Probably.


IcyTea:

I do agree Toony is acting "town" and not town, and not actually putting much thought into scumhunting, but I'll want a response from Toaster first.

Could you please point me to what I missed from you?  I'm not seeing it.

[IcyTea31]

Could you please point me to what I missed from you?  I'm not seeing it.

Roles might not be alignment-indicative, but I'll say the role name is a really damning one.

That bit I underlined: you really think a role name a player submitted before the game started is going to have any influence on their alignment?

This was a breadcrumb to tell that I knew what was in the contract before its real text was posted, because the name in question literally is damning. If you read the whole sentence, you'd know I don't. Is looking for "slips" all you do on D1?

In fact, if you care who I suspect and where my vote is so much, let's put it on you: Toaster. If you're not going to develop your cases to ascertain their truths and don't even care about figuring out factual matters, I don't see how your mindset is in anyway town-sided.

IcyTea:

And "protected by the fact of being town" makes no sense.

Only if you don't care about whether I factually am town or not. Which a town player should.

I'm going to need you to explain that statement to me then, because I still don't understand what you're getting at here.

If the fact that your current target is town means nothing to you, you're scum, plain and simple.

[Toaster]

Oh.  Well, I did respond to that post here.  Did you want more?   Like I said, I'm looking at people besides you.  I like to ask lots of questions, and I'm doing that to a broad spectrum of people.  I no longer find you the scummiest, for example; like I said, Tric's anti-town mindset got my vote onto him.  I certainly wouldn't cry if you were lynched, but I have a better choice.

And I guess I understand what you're saying in the latter half, but until I'm convinced 100% a player is town (which may never happen), they're not completely off the hook.

[Nirur Torir]

Oh.  Well, I did respond to that post here.  Did you want more?   Like I said, I'm looking at people besides you.  I like to ask lots of questions, and I'm doing that to a broad spectrum of people.  I no longer find you the scummiest, for example; like I said, Tric's anti-town mindset got my vote onto him.  I certainly wouldn't cry if you were lynched, but I have a better choice.

How do you feel about Tric's roleclaim?

It sounds like a believable narrative to me, and I'm starting to have doubts.
Which makes me doubt whether I can play without trying to analyze walls of text, which I'm terrible at. How do people with looser styles of play actually play, and not bounce around in doubt?

[webadict]

Lurker Track
------------------------
4maskwolf - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Last post was 25 hours ago.
Nirur Torir - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Last post was less than an hour ago.
TricMagic - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 Last post was less than an hour ago.
Leafsnail - 1 2 3 4 5 6 Last post was 1 hour ago.
notquitethere - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Last post was 3 hours ago.
Luckyowl - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Last post was 11 hours ago.
ToonyMan - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Last post was 8 hours ago.
juicebox - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Last post was 10 hours ago.
dolores - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 Last post was 1 hour ago.
NJW2000 - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Last post was 18 hours ago.
IcyTea31 - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 Last post was less than an hour ago.
Vector - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Last post was 9 hours ago.
FallacyofUrist - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Last post was 11 hours ago.
Jim Groovester - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Last post was 12 hours ago.
Toaster - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Last post was less than an hour ago.
heydude6 - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Last post was 12 hours ago.

A list of all players and their posts. Sorry that it's currently in player order and that it doesn't follow replacements, but Mamobo is still sick, so the fact that it even works is a miracle.

[IcyTea31]

Oh.  Well, I did respond to that post here.  Did you want more?   Like I said, I'm looking at people besides you.  I like to ask lots of questions, and I'm doing that to a broad spectrum of people.

And I guess I understand what you're saying in the latter half, but until I'm convinced 100% a player is town (which may never happen), they're not completely off the hook.

The issue is that you're not trying to improve your reads after first impressions, to get closer to that 100% certainty someone is town (or scum).

You asked me earlier for whom I suspect, and I reposted my reads list. Do you agree with my analyses? What information were you seeking to receive from it?

I no longer find you the scummiest, for example; like I said, Tric's anti-town mindset got my vote onto him.  I certainly wouldn't cry if you were lynched, but I have a better choice.

You haven't played with Tric before. If you had, you'd know that he always gets obsessed with whatever the special mechanics of the setup happen to be, regardless of alignment. As far as I can tell, he honestly believes that what he's saying is what the town wants to hear. The mindset is anti-town, but it's also town!Tric.

[TricMagic]

To note, apparently I wasn't meant to be sent fries. Webadict has a 'holiday brain' as they said.

Honestly who attacks me and for what reason is pretty good info to me.

[ToonyMan]

@FallacyofUrist:

Jim Groovester, ToonyMan, 4maskwolf, I also have my eyes on y'all.

I was also fried today. I assume this was your doing. I don't know what this entails but we shall see.

Disregard this. Webadict informed me this was an error I guess.

To note, apparently I wasn't meant to be sent fries. Webadict has a 'holiday brain' as they said.

Same. FoU probably did target somebody but not us?