Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[IcyTea31]

"If I act really dumb then scum will dogpile me and I'll have them dead to rights!"

No, you won't. Bad play will have town and scum all over you

The fact is:
1. Town don't know anybody else's alignment
2. Mafia know their buddies' alignments

People will act differently whether they're town or mafia. Disputing this is the same as denying the game of mafia itself. The challenge is for the mafia players to pass off as town.

I know I'm town. That's the one piece of certain information that I have (before taking mechanics into account). I don't have to pass as town, because I'm town, so why not use that certain fact to scumhunt?

Town don't know my alignment, so they'll pursue me in good faith and, assuming competence, will eventually realize that I'm town and stop pursuing me after putting in just the right amount of effort. Scum know that I'm town, so they have to simulate the same, but don't have the same good faith and don't know for sure when to stop, either letting me off too easy or pushing even in the face of certain proof.

But now that you know that this is what I'm doing, will you let me off or will you keep pushing?

then you'll have to defend your bad play or apologize and stop voting yourself.

I don't see a problem with having to apologize. Do you?

Well I wasn't going to engage with this but since you asked directly okay.  You're reaction fishing in an incredibly hamfisted way.  You wanted to rattle the cage a little bit on D1 by doing something out of the ordinary and see how people's reactions fall.  Now to turn the question back around to you: did you feel you got anything useful out of your little fishing expedition?

You tell me. It hasn't given me any information it hasn't also given you. It's definitely something I can use.

[TricMagic]

6 pages already and this game looks to be unpleasant.

To this, I thought it before but short posts with no meaning don't advance anything.

So, never reacted to this, why not?

Hey webadict, no hiding this game like you did the last one we played! Get your penguin self down here.

Also, Hi Mamobo! How you doing?

webadict is not a player. Please only vote players listed on the voteboard.

You're not a valid target either apparently.

dolores, why all the megaposts? Toonyman, why no reaction? Or did I miss it in the walls of posts? And Caz, why am I voting you?

Mamobo, can we get a Lurker-Check? With the number of people here it would be a useful tool for checking previous posts. A votecount update is also appreciated.

[TricMagic]

And yes, it is Christmastime, so somewhat expected to be a bit lax. Still..

[Toaster]

Why are people complaining about lurkers when the (five day) D1 started less than 24 hours ago, slap in the middle of Christmas?



Forum/browser stuff:

Toaster:

Also, anyone:  I used to be able to hit ctrl-b to bold (as in auto insert the tags), and now it won't.  Is that a browser thing or a forum setting somewhere I'm missing?

TBH I didn't even know that was a thing, I can confirm I can't do it on Google Chrome.

Bah, must be a Chrome thing, as I used to use Firefox.  I'll have to look it up when I feel like it.


Dolores:

Really?  You don't think it's possible for a scum player to accidentally out their buddy or reveal a non-mafia through excessive force?  I have pegged a townie before by seeing a mafioso tunnel down said townie with silly arguments.  You don't ever look for that?

Not at all. This is pure WIFOM. You're basing your reads of other players on the posts of someone with an intrinsic information advantage they want to deceive you about. To give a trivial example, if there was a formula for acting out a sequence where poor arguments are used to attack a player and so subsequently on your lynch the town accepted that that person was probably town, in any mountainous game with more than one mafscum you could act out this scenario with one of your partners, get lynched, and then let them coast to the win on the pro-town-appearance of your act.
I'm hoping to discern the motivations of other players and then judge what alignment that player would have those motivations as. I don't learn anything about a player's motivations from the content of another player (except where it provokes a reaction from the examinee).

I find the game to develop organically enough so it's hard to plan out such a script in advance.  I'd certainly be a bit warier about using a better scum player as my basis, but I'd never discount it.  It's another source of evidence when there's a dearth of information.  I'm feeling there's just some philosophical differences here.

Speaking of philosophy, do you support policy lynches on lurkers?  What about policy lynches in general?


Heydude:

I think I'll start by introducing myself to the vets. Mainly Toaster and Dolores since they're the ones who asked.

Welcome, then.  Always good to see newer people, especially with fresh perspectives.

In a game of mafia where the town is doing badly, who is more likely to know what's going on and lead the town to victory:

The group of 4 people?

or

The group of 2 people?

Do you know something we don't?


Jim G:

Do you think Bastanormal 3 provided you enough game to stop being such a newbie?

It took eleven years but with Bastard Paranormal 3 I think I can finally say I'm not a newbie anymore.

We'll be the judge of that.

Jim G:

Toaster and notquitethere: sup bros also what's your opinion on the length of Day 1s and whether long Day 1s are actually productive or not?

Because we're in for a long Day 1.

The drive away from extensions happened sometime after I left.  I agree with its pros, at least, because I have seen several useless extensions.  Day 1 can totally be productive, and I feel the productivity:length ratio is irrelevant.  You can have short useless days and long great ones as well as the reverse.

Alright, let me refine my question some more.

I reread a bunch of games recently and a pattern I noticed is that as the day goes on (and on) players tend to reevaluate their suspicions and this results in several distinct bandwagons forming as the day goes on. With 120 hour days I'd say it's likely that there'll be two or three bandwagons form over the course of the day.

Is this productive over ending the day roughly in time for when the first solid consensus on a lynch target forms?

Sure.  If there's solid enough reason for a lynch candidate to change, then let it change and let's learn from it the next day.   As long as the game is moving, there's information to be learned.



IcyTea:

Rolefishing, I'd wager.

Expand on this, please. How does self-voting myself motivate you to tell me about your abilities?

That was a quick gut read.  Maybe my gut is out of touch, but somehow I'm thinking the information you're reading about the reactions is less about hunting scum.

4maskwolf: What did you think of my self-vote?

Seeking attention much?

[NJW2000]

Spoiler: IcyTea31 (click to show/hide)

    the comments thing is freaking me out

Why is it freaking you out? Don't you want to appear to play the same regardless of alignment, or should I take a sudden change in your apparent strategy as a sign of an alignment shift?

It's freaking me out because it suggests that almost nothing is as constant as I thought it would be. Also, we don't know the consequences our comments will have, as far as I can tell. It seems quite bastard-ish.

I'm not sure I entirely get the second question. I think if my alignment shifted, I might change my playing style, and I might not. If my alignment had been shifted using "Comments", as far as I understand it everyone would know- so for example if the town alignment (cheeky townclaim) shifted to jester, people would see through me suddenly trying to come across as scum in order to get lynched.

Spoiler: notquitethere (click to show/hide)

NJW2000 RE: the commenting power, I think we'll have to experiment and see how it works in practise. Insane powers are common in this format, but bear in mind they're usually balanced out against each other-- in this case it seems like the effects of the power aren't certain and are filtered through what Wuba wants to implement. Make sense?

It does. Thanks for posting this.

Also, thanks, everyone who spent their time explaining the comments power to me. I feel less lost now.


Toonyman:Why do you doubt that dolores' [REDACTED] ability is the scumkill? Why did you feel the need to say so?

it would be hilarious if the [REDACTED] ability Dolores is allowed to use was the scumkill.

I doubt it.

Jim Groovester:

Jim Groovester: Some people made posts before the game started about the levels of shenanigans they chose. Would it be unsporting to read into those posts? Do you think they could yield useful insights? Do you think they couldn't?

[IcyTea31]

Seeking attention much?

Yes. Is there a problem?

Also, we don't know the consequences our comments will have, as far as I can tell.

From your use of "we", it sounds like you didn't start the game by asking webadict a hundred questions. I heartily recommend it, it gives one great insight to how this particular game works.

If my alignment had been shifted using "Comments", as far as I understand it everyone would know- so for example if the town alignment (cheeky townclaim) shifted to jester, people would see through me suddenly trying to come across as scum in order to get lynched.

That's a pretty pessimistic view of your skills. Since you're so aware of your differing alignment strategies, how does your town game differ from your scum game?

[webadict]

RULES NOTES/SEMI-UPDATE: Many of you have realized that you carry Items! Items may be traded as an action once each Phase.
MAMOBO NOTE: Mamobo's feeling a bit sick, and it's holiday seasons, so I'll run a Lurkertracker later today or tomorrow. I need to help out Mamobo before I do.

As you sweep up what remains of your collective wits, a giant waltzes into the arena and up to the stall, removing the On Break sign and putting out a shiny Badge! Through its tremors and shaking, it does a polite bow and speaks in a soft tone.
“Welcome, patron. I am the Badge Seller for I sell and buy Badges, young ones. If you would like to purchase this Badge I have added to my stocks, please do so here. If you would like to maintain secrecy, I have it on good authority that that can be arranged.” The Badge Seller does another deep bow to you, occasionally shifting in impossible ways.
Some of you move to see the new Badge, and as many of you realize you have no money, the Badge Seller raises a hand in acknowledgement.
“Fear not, for I was given an order to give each of you 100 pons. Please do with it as you wish. But, there is unlikely to be another generous event like this in the future.”

A new Badge has been added to the Badge Seller!

The Fast Hatter Badge is now available for purchase.

All players have received 100 pons.

Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - juicebox*, Vector*,
Caz -
dolores - TricMagic*, ToonyMan*,
FallacyofUrist - 4maskwolf*, dolores*,
heydude6 -
IcyTea31 - IcyTea31*, Jim Groovester*,
Jim Groovester -
juicebox -
Leafsnail -
Luckyowl - Toaster*,
NJW2000 -
notquitethere -
Toaster -
ToonyMan -
TricMagic - FallacyofUrist*,
Vector -
No Lynch -

Not Voting - Caz, Leafsnail, notquitethere, Luckyowl, NJW2000, heydude6*,

Day ends December 29th, 2020 at 19:00 CST (~101 hours from now)

(Information - Item) Badge: Badges are Items that act 1-Shot Modifier or Auto abilities that can be given to other players when purchased or created. Some of them have negative effects. All Badges drop on death.

Fast Hatter Badge - 100 pons
(1-Shot, Modifier) Fast Hatter Badge: Whenever you use an action, you may have that action apply at Priority 0 instead of its normal Priority.

[TricMagic]

Hops up.

"I'll take one Fast Hatter Badge for myself please." gives 100 pons/

[4maskwolf]

Every time webadict posts I just hear "Untitled" by Simple Plan playing in the background.

Well I wasn't going to engage with this but since you asked directly okay.  You're reaction fishing in an incredibly hamfisted way.  You wanted to rattle the cage a little bit on D1 by doing something out of the ordinary and see how people's reactions fall.  Now to turn the question back around to you: did you feel you got anything useful out of your little fishing expedition?

You tell me. It hasn't given me any information it hasn't also given you. It's definitely something I can use.

Well I hope you make use of it, then, because I'm not seeing anything actually useful in the reactions to you.  When you go so hard on the lolrandom it tends to muddle the reactions you get.

[webadict]

Hops up.

"I'll take one Fast Hatter Badge for myself please." gives 100 pons/

The Badge Seller picks up the Badge and hands it to TricMagic.

"If there is anyone else that wants one, I have many. It was a Collector's Item in a previous life."

[TricMagic]

As a question to everyone, why would you want the badge being sold? For me it's mostly to avoid being roleblocked when I need to do something.

[FallacyofUrist]

Pons?

Badges?

Oh fuck it's a Hat in Time crossover!

(More seriously I have every intention of responding to the activity that's been going on since I've last been on, but first I must attend to Christmas shenanigans and various other things, expect me to return in some time.)

IcyTea31, just for the sakes of making there be three votes on someone instead of two and making people react.

[ToonyMan]

@IcyTea:

I'm still voting myself

IcyTea, IcyTea, IcyTea. Why did you reveal your nefarious plot now? Luckyowl hasn't even posted yet. Why should town listen to anything an unjustified self-voter has to say?


@NJW2000:

Toonyman:Why do you doubt that dolores' [REDACTED] ability is the scumkill? Why did you feel the need to say so?

it would be hilarious if the [REDACTED] ability Dolores is allowed to use was the scumkill.

I doubt it.

I'm guessing. Your general musing is a guess too, no? I'm not going to hide my thoughts if I read something I want to point out.


@FallacyofUrist:

IcyTea31, just for the sakes of making there be three votes on someone instead of two and making people react.

What is this? That's not scum hunting FoU!


@Tricmagic:

As a question to everyone, why would you want the badge being sold? For me it's mostly to avoid being roleblocked when I need to do something.

As that would reveal parts of my role, I'm not commenting.


@Webadict:
Are there other badges for sale? Can we see them?

[NJW2000]

As a question to everyone, why would you want the badge being sold? For me it's mostly to avoid being roleblocked when I need to do something.

Right now, I don't want the badge being sold. I shall keep my pons.

Why do you know you'll need to do this "something" so soon in the game? Why do you think someone will roleblock you? Are you town-aligned?
Not rolefishing, I'm interested in your motivations.

I can't say I trust this certainty that you'll need to do a night action barely a day into the game, TricMagic. Your openness in your purchasing is however to be commended: Town needs information.

Also, we don't know the consequences our comments will have, as far as I can tell.

From your use of "we", it sounds like you didn't start the game by asking webadict a hundred questions. I heartily recommend it, it gives one great insight to how this particular game works.

If my alignment had been shifted using "Comments", as far as I understand it everyone would know- so for example if the town alignment (cheeky townclaim) shifted to jester, people would see through me suddenly trying to come across as scum in order to get lynched.

That's a pretty pessimistic view of your skills. Since you're so aware of your differing alignment strategies, how does your town game differ from your scum game?

I may pester webadict, in that case. Thank you.

I wouldn't say I'm that aware of my different alignment strategies. In fact, I'm inexperienced enough that my style isn't fully formed yet.

My scum game thus far is mostly notable for agressive defence of my scumbuddy (which worked, to a point) and improvised responses to massclaims (which didn't).
My town games thus far have involved more tunneling and stupid fights, although these are something I'm trying to eradicate from my play.

I'm guessing. Your general musing is a guess too, no? I'm not going to hide my thoughts if I read something I want to point out.

I'm not guessing, I'm completely agnostic as to whether or not it's the case. I suppose I'd like us all to keep in mind that we must certainly be prepared to lynch dolores as scum, as we probably won't be able to do much else to them.



FoU is indeed using his vote to not-scumhunt, perhaps with the intention of lynching not-scum, or simply not lynching scum. Is he coordinating with the self-voter IcyTea? We can only speculate. I'm going to reread the thread, see if I can find anything worth pressuring someone on.

[Vector]

OK . . . a couple of notes. I've been keeping up and I'm aware that I have a few questions directed my way that haven't been answered, but I want to say a few things.

First of all: I've noticed a surprising number of people who I feel are acting like they would like to be lynched in a WIFOMy kind of a way. Those people are IcyTea (self-voting), FallacyofUrist (acting crazy, clearly not doing anything actually resembling hunting, being the 3rd vote in order to be the third vote), and Dolores (claiming "unlynchability," claiming 3rd party "you might all be able to win with my condition but I'm not going to work at it neener neener," this weird anti-lurker business within the first couple of hours. Yes, the last of these is explained, but Dolores should still know better.).

I will admit that the first thought that popped into my head was "maybe we have a jester team instead of a conventional scumteam" or "maybe the way we play games here has changed so much that I don't understand it anymore." I would guess that Dolores is a survivor of some kind or other third party. I don't believe their claim as town currently.

But regardless, I believe that Fallacy of Urist does know better, and I feel right now that his behavior is the most anti-town overall. Lurking is one thing, fluttering all over the place stirring the mud is in my opinion a more solid tell: it is actively, rather than passively, anti-town.


I propose an FoU lynch, but I would like to wait on it until a. obviously, after Christmas and b. everyone has had a chance to post and c. also obviously, we hear more arguments.