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[Jim Groovester]

Anyway it's pretty clear if Toaster flips scum then Jim is on the same team. He followed onto 4mask and then subbed out of the game when his move was shown to be bad. Classic case of not wanting to have to climb out of the shit pit you just jumped into.

Please don't accuse me of replacing out in bad faith.

[notquitethere]

Please don't accuse me of replacing out in bad faith.

Yeah I'm sorry, that was a bit over the line of me.

[Leafsnail]

I want a full claim from both ICT and Toaster before I try and unpick that mess.

I felt sure Toaster was lying earlier today, but reading his claim I can't actually completely dismiss it. Some thoughts I currently have:
- Why doesn't 4mask's flip mention being a mason at all? This lends some credibility to the idea that the flip is fake. I can confirm you can have more than one role incidentally - I do, as ToonyMan revealed to the thread before he died.
- Why hasn't ICT already claimed? If he's going to die tonight he should surely share all the knowledge he has.

This isn't a good look for Leafsnail. Look at him instantly trying to discredit an inspect:

If it can be affected then I give no weight at all to the inspection result, any number of possible scum roles (eg any redirection/bussing ability) could interfere with it and they knew it was happening.

It's fine to be sceptical, but saying it has 'no weight' is a strong discrediting.

Am I wrong? In a high-power game with 4 mafia members I'd be very surprised if their entire team had no way to interfere with an inspect they knew the target of.

[IcyTea31]

Anyway, I'm 99% sure that flip is fake and we'll see the real of the flip whenever IcyTea dies.

Death millers are a bastard mechanic. In a non-bastard game, roleflips never contain false information (though parts may be obscured, as with Toony's first flip).

Given that IcyTea is the #2 head, I assumed it'd be wiser to hit the main body first. 
I don't have any actual confirmation of that, but with 4mask claiming as such, I was only ever more sure. 
Again, I don't have any actual confirmation of that, so I still say we lynch IcyTea to be sure.

If you're town, this is possibly the stupidest line of thought I've ever seen in a Mafia game. First off, you believe in the possibility of getting a double-lynch. Second, you believe in a flipped townie's claim. Third, you suddenly don't believe in either and decide to waste the actual lynch. Total town casualties: 4 (both masons, yourself, and the nightkill since the lynch was wasted).

How would Vector be mechanically confirmed?

4maskwolf copied an alignment inspect and a watch on Vector. Returned town and being visited by you, NJW2000 and a third person whom I'd really like to claim their action.

- Why doesn't 4mask's flip mention being a mason at all?

Because the mason part works as an auto ability in my role.

Why hasn't ICT already claimed? If he's going to die tonight he should surely share all the knowledge he has.

Because you're not reading the thread?

IcyTea and I, collectively, are a Super-JOAT.

That's the part with the hydra

[Leafsnail]

You and 4mask have definitely claimed a lot of things about what the two of you can do/have done collectively but I haven't seen you spell out exactly what your role is and does.

4mask also already mentioned that I roleblocked Vector and I confirmed that I did upthread.

[notquitethere]

Leafsnail

Am I wrong? In a high-power game with 4 mafia members I'd be very surprised if their entire team had no way to interfere with an inspect they knew the target of.

This isn't really a strong push from me, but my thinking is that every claim has some amount of weight to it. I agree entirely that interfering is a high possibility, it's just not an absolute certainty.

Tric

... I said day one I had the Sprint Hat, which would intercept actions. The Dweller Mask grant items. However, using it instead of your own action is extremely fishy. I'm the only one who can use them to their full potential. DM meanwhile gives you 1 random tech, badge, or gun. If you have an ally like mafia do, it is absolutely perfect as you can trade the tech or gun during the day. If you are alone, it's complete rng that wastes a night action. I I had the Mask last night, I wouldn't be down any actions, as I can us 2 additional hat actions. Using gear isn't an issue either. Had I the sprint hat and ice hat, I could perform a protect that wouldn't kill me. If the time hat was used, one could delay Icytea's death depending on how his lover effect works.

OK, that's all great to know, and thanks, but it also didn't answer my question. Again:

- Why did you think you had correctly guessed Jim's rolename?
- What game/epilogue were you talking about?

[heydude6]

... I said day one I had the Sprint Hat, which would intercept actions. The Dweller Mask grant items. However, using it instead of your own action is extremely fishy. I'm the only one who can use them to their full potential. DM meanwhile gives you 1 random tech, badge, or gun. If you have an ally like mafia do, it is absolutely perfect as you can trade the tech or gun during the day. If you are alone, it's complete rng that wastes a night action. If I had the Mask last night, I wouldn't be down any actions, as I can us 2 additional hat actions. Using gear isn't an issue either. Had I the sprint hat and ice hat, I could perform a protect that wouldn't kill me. If the time hat was used, one could delay Icytea's death depending on how his lover effect works.

Trickmagic Why would you say that using the dweller mask requires giving up your own action. According to Dolores:

I don't so much mind talking about mine, because I can't be targeted with kills, but hats are their own action type (that only competes with with other hats and is otherwise free) each phase. Mine can delay someone's action for a cycle and can be used in both phases, though obviously I can't use it.

People can use the dweller mask in addition to their own action. You didn't call them out on it so I assume you agreed with them.


Anyway, it's time that I claim. I was the vigilante who killed Juicebox. I knew this would reveal to scum that a vigilante existed, but I was hoping to at least hide who that person was.

Unfortunately, everyone else decided to claim their night action meaning scum could use process of elimination to deduce that it was me. Thanks a lot guys!

Spoiler: Is there really any room for doubt at this point? (click to show/hide)

If you want to know why I chose him, it was because I was originally going to choose Jim, but then he did that scanner action and I wanted to hear what he claimed the results would be. A part of me also wanted to target Toaster, but yesterday he wasn't as suspicious as he is today. There was room for doubt, so I spared him. I ended up targeting the lurker instead since those tend to be the hardest to push a lynch on. Thankfully I ended up bringing back flips.

If you haven't figured it out yet, scum didn't kill anyone last night. I believe they targeted either Vector or the Masons, both of those players had protect actions that night.

Are you happy?


Anyway, I'm putting my vote on Toaster now. If he's town, then two scum are going to be dead so I don't mind one mislynch. If he's wrong, then he's almost certainly scum instead.

- Why did you think you had correctly guessed Jim's rolename?
- What game/epilogue were you talking about?

The last bastard Paranormal is the game he is talking about. Jim managed to make it out of that with the most money making him essentially the winner. He spent the money to commission a poster of himself and called himself the Legendary Exterminator.

[Vector]

Hey: I'm not going to be around much until probably later in the day, but let me clear up the hat situation right now.

1. I started the game with the Dweller Mask. I didn't take it from anyone (or whatever). It's mine.
2. When I tried to use it last night, I was indeed roleblocked. There was no effect from the Mask.
3. Regarding Tric's question about why I would put on the hat instead of doing my own action: putting on a hat is a free action (well, rather, you can put on one hat per phase, in addition to your ordinary action). As previously claimed upthread, I both put on my hat and attempted to modify my own role. Both were blocked.

[heydude6]

Some reads before anyone tries to strike me with lightning.

Leafsnail isn't lying about his action. He is the only person to claim to block Vector and Vector was indeed blocked. Could still be scum.

The most likely person to attempt the scum kill was Nirur Tourir. I don't believe the scum didn't try to kill that night.

The claims chart is the strongest piece of evidence that Toaster might still be town. NJW confirmed his presence at Vector, and Toaster claims to have used a protect. We could doubt that protect claim, but we definitely know that he didn't do the scum kill cause Vector would otherwise be dead. It's strange that he inspected Iceytea and visited Vector at the same time, though having 2 night actions is not the craziest thing in this setup. Maybe his action against Vector was also an inspect and the mafia targeted the masons.

You could make the argument that Nirur Tourir is a better lynch candidate than Toaster, since he probably did the night kill, but trying to push a lynch on 4mask after inspecting Iceytea is very sus.

[heydude6]

Nirur Torir

Are you going to try to defend yourself?

[TricMagic]

To NQT, the bastard paranormal that just happened and went on for way longer than was expected. This is also why I think I got it right with him having abilities from that game, though there is no way to confirm this outside of Jim up and saying so.

To heydude, I never mentioned it because it leas back to my own ability to use more hats. If that was the case, who did Icytea use a hat on, there is both a roleblock and protect hat left.

[heydude6]

I see what you mean. Leafsnail might have the block hat and used it on Vector, and then could have done the scumkill on the masons (or some other action).

Or Toaster has the protect hat and used it on Vector plus the inspect on Iceytea.

Nirur should at least claim something though. Otherwise it's very unsporting.

He's the only one who hasn't at this point.

[TricMagic]

I'm pretty sure you have it completely wrong about the hats being free actions. Otherwise I would not need an ability to use 2 more. Asking webadict.

[heydude6]

They compete with other hats according to Dolores.

[FallacyofUrist]

Right, let me clarify the nature of my 'hard countering'.

I have an auto ability that's central to my role and has a protective clause embedded in it. When dolores used their power on me, it removed my role except that auto ability, due to the protective clause. This made my fries action fail. However when Day 2 started, the other part of that auto triggered and I got my role back as a consequence. Basically. This means there's not an unaccounted for block that stopped me.

It's ridiculous that Toaster is pushing to lynch IcyTea. I'm going to trust we're not dealing with a death miller 4mask after all this. I think notquitethere, Toaster, and Jim are three of the scumteam. That still leaves an unknown fourth member, though, which concerns me.

Anyways I think there's enough information in Day 1 and Day 2 to produce a good case on Toaster, so I'm going to do that and see if I can solidify the lynch a bit - and hopefully figure out who that fourth mafioso is.