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[FallacyofUrist]

FoU, I looked at your case before traveling and this is more or less how I feel about it.

Lazy to engage is one thing. Trying to look like you're engaging, putting in much the same number of posts that the middling-active other players were, but not producing anything of substance in the process is another.

But you're replacing out, so I'll do you and your successor a favor and find a different target for now. I'm not mad that you have to replace, I know how exhausting and time-consuming holiday circumstances can be for everyone. I hope things go alright for you.


Toaster. You're currently the person I find the most scummy, and while I have some thoughts I need to articulate and put into a proper case, I feel comfortable leaving my vote on you for the moment.

Leafsnail / NJW2000 / Nirur Torir: You three are the closest to neutral I've got in my readslist, and I'd really like you to produce some more content so I can evaluate you, and this current situation is perfect for it. Who do you think is scummiest in this situation, and why?

Well, 4maskwolf's death means Icytea31 lean closer to townie. Icytea31, Do you want me to use my buff on you so I can role investigate Jim?

No, because I'm literally dead now. I'll die at the end of the night phase.

Well shit. Is that something that can be protected against or prevented? I don't want to lose another townie here.

[IcyTea31]

As long as we lynch someone outside of this group (I'm on the fence on Vector):

notquitethere

Could you please check the confirmed townie's read list? NQT is mechanically confirmed for me.

[IcyTea31]

Well shit. Is that something that can be protected against or prevented? I don't want to lose another townie here.

Nope. Funnily enough, the ability that makes me die with 4mask also makes me self-revive twice whenever I'm killed (not lynched, not "suicided" as the contract would have done). That's the part with the hydra (though it's still not named "Hydraform" so Luckyowl really was mistaken about something): if I'd drawn the nightkill there'd now be two of me.

[IcyTea31]

if I'd drawn the nightkill there'd now be two of me.

Also the reason why I was so confident about painting every possible target on me D1; vig bullets wouldn't have been a waste on me either.

[FallacyofUrist]

I guess we need to figure out how much stock we put in alignment-investigating abilities. I find NQT behaviorally scummy, but it's possible they're just a townie using bad tactics. Like I mentioned, with Jim out of the way for the moment I need to do a deep-review of NQT and Toaster's day one endgame behavior... and 2 am is probably not the best time for that.

I think it comes down to data points. Without a giant massclaim I don't know if we'll be able to figure out if our inspects were messed with (and maybe not even then, but it's worth a shot), but it's only Day 2. Are we going to go straight to that this early? If not, an inspect result is just going to be an additional point towards someone being town or scum. A strong point, but one that can be overruled if their behavior points strongly enough in the opposite direction.

[heydude6]

One of our Townies just got murdered, and Iceytea's probably going to die soon as well. We're closer to MYLO than you think.

That's just how role madness works.

[IcyTea31]

By my count, town can only afford one more mislynch (NL counts as half a mislynch). A massclaim could be very worthwhile.

[Vector]

Toaster, you wanna explain what's going on here?

By my count, town can only afford one more mislynch (NL counts as half a mislynch). A massclaim could be very worthwhile.

I agree, it's massclaim time.

[FallacyofUrist]

Right, we've got... 13 players. Mod-confirmed 4 mafia. I'll be nice and assume IcyTea's telling the truth about their impending death, and I'll also assume there's no complicating factors like a lurking serial killer or something.

Assuming things go horribly wrong, and thus there's a mislynched townie and a nightkilled townie, and then IcyTea dies, we're down to 10 players, 4 of which are mafia and 6 of which are town. That's MYLO - at which point Godzilla might show up and save us all, but it's still a very good point.

Okay, maybe an earlier massclaim isn't as unreasonable as I thought.

[Vector]

Toaster, you wanna explain what's going on here?

This is vague. Sorry. What do you think is going on with your scumread for ICT, given that 4mask has just flipped town?

[notquitethere]

LuckyOwl

Everyone: Why do you think they kill 4maskwolf?

Because 4mask claimed that he and ICT had the lovers drawback which kills ICT on 4mask's death. Pretty clear case of someone wanting to get two kills out of one shot.


Toaster how does your inspect make sense now 4mask has flipped? What do you say to 4mask's insistence that you showed TMI?

Heydude, this isn't actually too alignment-relevant but I'd like to give you a tip as you seem annoyed about my analysis. Genuine outrage at being mischaracterised is a good town indicator. But you should also be wary of suspecting people just based on the fact they are open to suspecting you: town spend most of their time chasing false leads and are bound to suspect each other.

Everyone, I don't know why Toaster made that play but here are my current best guesses:

- Scum!Toaster hoped to break the mason claim headon with a false inspect, kill both of them with a lynch, and then take the fall the next day, getting rid of x3 townies (4mask, ICT, plus a night kill) for the price of one Toaster. This seems like a weak and unnecessary play when they could just lynch some other town and NK ICT but it's possible there's some additional considerations I'm not seeing.
- Toaster is just a jester 
- Toaster's ability went awry and they're all town
-  ICT genuinely is scum and their masonhood with 4mask was some kind alignment-deceiving power (this seems least likely).

My suggestion is to try to puzzle out the night actions through claims first.

Additionally: a mafia day kill doesn't really gel with a scum!toaster. Why would mafia undermine their own ploy with a 4mask flip? So either most likely:

- Toaster is town and mafia killed 4mask
- Toaster is mafia and some town(!) or third party killed 4mask (why??)

[TricMagic]

Toaster's inspect was misdirected by some power.

Oh really?

Nirur Torir  : What.did you do last night?

First, never occurred to me due to the fact my hats are once per night. Second, had a gut read on Jim's role name. Third, who would I even target? Fourth, that extra action is completely useless to me in the first place beyond Leave Comment. Fifth, messing with roles can mess up the game, and town is the most likely pick to do so, leaving a role change.

1. What?
2. Scum can give a gut read too.
3. Uuh...why even target Jim? You never showed any suspicion on Jim. So why target him with your action at NIGHT.
4. It's not useless if you just you use your leave a comment ability... At night.
5. So why did you use your ability...on Jim...if you don't want to mess with role*face palm* I can use my sqaud modifier to see a hint of my target's ability. I can also refuse to CHANGE anything.

Because his role was likely SK in the first place from how he was acting, and I did show suspicous for him being third party. So I just wrote his name, role, and put town for the modifier.

Who else would I target though? You tell me.

[TricMagic]

I am going to request a replacement. I'll try to play until I am replaced but I wouldn't expect much. Sorry, everyone.

Jim, one thing. If you don't go ahead and kill Toaster to confirm or deny his claim, I'm bringing out the Item Magnet badge next night to render gear less useful. Anything you use can end up being yanked by it. I will not have this keep going on until near the end of day. This has the benefit of also rendering some of the dweller mask results less useful.

I don't have a daykill and didn't gain one during N1.

Just because Jim is lazy to engage doesn't make them scum.

FoU, I looked at your case before traveling and this is more or less how I feel about it.

In this case I can at least see it, killing 4mask is the exact opposite of what I asked. Though that could be WIFOM.

With that in mind, Toaster is toastier than a lightning-struck mafia. And no WIFOM will deny that with nearly every action being on Vector last night.

[TricMagic]

NQT, the best way is to question those that believed Toaster and were voting for 4mask.

Interesting enough, that's you, Jim, and Toaster. So WIFOM much? I would suggest a full claim on your abilities, but I've been fullclaimed for a while and don't quite trust the result. If you're the killer it was a pretty big mistake. If Jim was the killer, he was just leaving one last goodbye for whatever reason. Toaster being the killer implies Toawn:Toaster taking my advice and it going horribly wrong.

Of course, then there is heydude, so.. Or Leafsnail who isn't doing much. Can you guys please give me all the hats, I need power with the game end approaching, otherwise I can't do much.

[notquitethere]

Tric are you deliberately forgetting that 4mask claimed his town inspect on me?