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[IcyTea31]

Unlike Mafia, the fascists don't have a secret chat and thus a new player can't be coached. Thus my read on you is that you made an honest attempt to gain information, which is a good look.

As far as i can tell that statement is false. There is nothing explicitly stating that they are not allowed to pm their team members.

Ah, true. I went into this with standard Mafia rules in mind, but PMs indeed don't seem to be explicitly forbidden.

Additionally while the read is probably sound enough for the chancellor, the president can lie about their cards, or the reason for picking which was discarded.

That's wine. At the very least, Luckyowl didn't lie about what they gave to Cnidaros, and I liked my emotional read on Luckyowl's reponse to my something provocative question. This is an early read and thus likely to either change or solidify.

Additionally, i would like to point out that all fascists start out knowing their teammates. this is important, because they might vouch for one another in the face of a hostile party.

Obviously; this is a team game. The important thing to remember is that liberals should strive to find their team as well. This means that trust is a commodity you should use perhaps not generously, but not too sparingly either.

Additionally, we should be careful who we let have the president role, since it is the only way for players to be eliminated. All it takes is two executions (assuming a full party of 10, which this is unfortunately not) to turn the voting into a potentially constant stalemate, which will almost always end in favor of the fascists by virtue of their larger selection of policies.

Obviously. Do you have a specific suspicion yet of who you wouldn't want to be president? Next in line would be flazeo25, whom we know nothing about yet, and then Cnidaros. Do you plan to vote Aye or Nay for Cnidaros' government?


To be honest, I'm not a huge fan of your post, Dustan Hache. I know you've played Mafia, so you know that focusing on talk about game mechanics that aren't immediately relevant is a common scumtell. Of course, scumtells are fairly weak, so this is not an accusation. But I will keep an eye on you.

I'm also disappointed in the players who haven't posted yet. The discussion phase is where liberals win, so I'd like to at least see an effort.

[Cnidaros]

That's wine. At the very least, Luckyowl didn't lie about what they gave to Cnidaros, and I liked my emotional read on Luckyowl's reponse to my something provocative question. This is an early read and thus likely to either change or solidify.

I haven't played online Mafia before, what's 'wine'? And I don't see why Luckyowl would lie about what I said, regardless if he was fascist or liberal. If he was liberal, he would have no reason to lie. If he was fascist, considering that I was given L/F and the policy I passed was liberal, he could either lie and say he gave me F/F, which is obviously false, or L/L, which serves no purpose except as an extremely backward way of casting suspicion on me. So Luckyowl not lying isn't evidence one way or another.

[IcyTea31]

I haven't played online Mafia before, what's 'wine'? And I don't see why Luckyowl would lie about what I said, regardless if he was fascist or liberal. If he was liberal, he would have no reason to lie. If he was fascist, considering that I was given L/F and the policy I passed was liberal, he could either lie and say he gave me F/F, which is obviously false, or L/L, which serves no purpose except as an extremely backward way of casting suspicion on me. So Luckyowl not lying isn't evidence one way or another.

It's evidence that Luckyowl isn't starting the game with any of the obvious gambits. I'll admit that most of my read on Luckyowl is just that: a cold read. Not what they're saying, but how they're saying it. The confusion in this post reads as good faith to me.

Your analysis is missing the scenario where you are fascist, either with or without Luckyowl. Would Luckyowl have reason to lie in those scenarios?

[Dustan Hache]

Obviously. Do you have a specific suspicion yet of who you wouldn't want to be president? Next in line would be flazeo25, whom we know nothing about yet, and then Cnidaros. Do you plan to vote Aye or Nay for Cnidaros' government?

Given that there are at least two fascists with a 1/3 chance of a third, and we have already determined that at least one of our two current officials is most likely a liberal, the answer is yes. I will definitely vote Aye to Cnidaros, unless new information manifests against such a decision.

[Cnidaros]

I haven't played online Mafia before, what's 'wine'? And I don't see why Luckyowl would lie about what I said, regardless if he was fascist or liberal. If he was liberal, he would have no reason to lie. If he was fascist, considering that I was given L/F and the policy I passed was liberal, he could either lie and say he gave me F/F, which is obviously false, or L/L, which serves no purpose except as an extremely backward way of casting suspicion on me. So Luckyowl not lying isn't evidence one way or another.

It's evidence that Luckyowl isn't starting the game with any of the obvious gambits. I'll admit that most of my read on Luckyowl is just that: a cold read. Not what they're saying, but how they're saying it. The confusion in this post reads as good faith to me.

Your analysis is missing the scenario where you are fascist, either with or without Luckyowl. Would Luckyowl have reason to lie in those scenarios?

I have no idea what "the obvious gambits" are, except if you mean "lie for absolutely no reason and immediately get outed as a fascist on literally the first turn", which seems like a pretty bad move to me.

If you want a comprehensive analysis:

Information: I passed a L, and claimed I received L/F. Then Luckyowl then claims he had L/L/F and discarded the L to test if I was liberal or fascist.

Scenario: I am liberal, Luckyowl is not:
-Luckyowl has no reason to lie that he passed me F/F which is verifiably false.
-Luckyowl can lie that he passed me L/L, to cast suspicion on me as the liar. But this is dumb, since if I did receive L/L I would have no reason to lie about that when I have to pass an L anyway.

Scenario: I am liberal, Luckyowl is too:
-Luckyowl has no reason to lie since he is liberal.

Scenario: I am fascist, Luckyowl is not:
-Luckyowl has no reason to lie since he is liberal.

Scenario: I am fascist, Luckyowl is too:
-Luckyowl has no reason to lie, since we are both fascists and do not want to cast suspicion on each other needlessly.

So it is in Luckyowl's interest to not lie in literally every scenario. I really don't know how you came to the conclusion that Luckyowl not lying is a point in his favor. I will consider him a neutral for now.

[IcyTea31]

Given that there are at least two fascists with a 1/3 chance of a third

Where's this from? Didn't Haspen say we have 4 liberals and 3 fascists?

Scenario: I am liberal, Luckyowl is not:
-Luckyowl has no reason to lie that he passed me F/F which is verifiably false.
-Luckyowl can lie that he passed me L/L, to cast suspicion on me as the liar. But this is dumb, since if I did receive L/L I would have no reason to lie about that when I have to pass an L anyway.

Think about that again. If Luckyowl were lying that they passed you L/L, You wouldn't have received L/L.

Scenario: I am liberal, Luckyowl is too:
-Luckyowl has no reason to lie since he is liberal.

Scenario: I am fascist, Luckyowl is not:
-Luckyowl has no reason to lie since he is liberal.

Lying as a liberal is one of the obvious gambits, to see you react to it at the cost of their own credibility. It's often a bad move, yes, but it's not one there's never a reason to do. That belief tells a bunch about you, however: you're indirectly pledging never to lie or be "outed as fascist". Perhaps that is why you don't want to plant a flag on Luckyowl? But if Luckyowl is neutral for now, what am I? Do you trust me?

Also, if you're a fascist, you could have lied and said you received L/L in order to discredit Luckyowl, again at the cost of your own credibility. It's actually a good look that you don't seem to be considering the scenarios where you're fascist very closely since as liberal, you'd know them to be irrelevant anyway.

Scenario: I am fascist, Luckyowl is too:
-Luckyowl has no reason to lie, since we are both fascists and do not want to cast suspicion on each other needlessly.

"Needlessly" is the key word here. Were you to contradict each other, liberals would be inclined to believe one is fascist and the other liberal. Whether giving a teammate's cover for one's own deep cover is a worthwhile trade or not is a discussion for a time when it's relevant, as it's clearly not been done here.

So it is in Luckyowl's interest to not lie in literally every scenario. I really don't know how you came to the conclusion that Luckyowl not lying is a point in his favor. I will consider him a neutral for now.

It's not necessarily a point in their favour, but it's a piece of information that should be analyzed. This conversation has helped me profile your playstyle a little, which will be useful in the future, especially once it becomes clear which team that playstyle is for.

[ctsun]

I'm also disappointed in the players who haven't posted yet. The discussion phase is where liberals win, so I'd like to at least see an effort.

To be blunt, there's no real information just yet so I don't want to. But, may as well make a token post just to let everyone know I'm alive.

[Dustan Hache]

Given that there are at least two fascists with a 1/3 chance of a third

Where's this from? Didn't Haspen say we have 4 liberals and 3 fascists?

He did, but I didn't see the post till now. Got that result by doing math.

[Haspen]

TURN 2
Government Election Phase:

flazeo25 becomes the Presidential Candidate

Presidential Candidate flazeo25, please select your Chancellor Candidate

Spoiler: Power&Policies: (click to show/hide)

Presidential Power: 10

Liberal: 1/5
Emancipation of Women

Fascist: 0/6

[flazeo25]

My chancellor candidate will be Icytea31.

[IcyTea31]

Aye

[Haspen]

Proposed Government:

President: flazeo25
Chancellor: IcyTea31

The vote to confirm or reject the proposed Government starts now.

It will conclude upon reaching a simple majority of AYE or NAY votes, or after 24 hours pass.

Votelist:
1. ctsun AYE
2. IcyTea31
3. Dustan Hache AYE
4. Shadowclaw777 AYE
5. Luckyowl AYE
6. flazeo25 AYE
7. Cnidaros

[flazeo25]

Aye

[Shadowclaw777]

Aye

[Luckyowl]

AYE