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[zaimoni]

The Backrooms is a place that exists in the space between different Realities. ....

....I.e....think "color" (a total conversion mod for C:DDA/C:BN) is much easier than properly replicating.

Color? There's a TC mod going on named that, or are you just referring to the various TC mods that do exist?

No, I'm not that connected in the scene -- just estimating complexity of changes required.

Don't want to speculate too much as my fork is nine full years behind both C:BN and C:DDA -- I'm thinking that allocating one Backrooms level per one-to-three in-game levels is "sort of workable" (i.e., we can rig no-clipping to correspond to change in z-level), and the JSON-enabled variants C:BN and C:DDA should at least be mostly capable of this right now.  So you can have a total conversion handling a few levels of the Backrooms easily; a moderate number of adjustments C++-side are needed to get *all* of the Backrooms levels in using this hack.  [E.g., small spatial extent levels with wrap-around, like Brock's bookstore, would need explicit support.]

However, to "do this right" you really want explicit exits -- that is, the "grappling hook" exit interpolator isn't up to linking up indefinite levels of Backrooms with tiny house-scale levels.  This is also a key blocker for portals.  That's where C:Whales (and thus C:Z) is horribly lacking.  Spot-checking C:BN ... ( https://github.com/cataclysmbnteam/Cataclysm-BN/blob/upload/src/game.cpp#L10806 ) ... still have the "grappling hook" exit interpolator.

[Random_Dragon]

Lil thing on the to-do list.

The meat of it involved porting over a PR that makes terrain centrifuges actually usable for certain lab uses. Kevin killed it because he doesn't believe separting materials with a centrifuge exists evidently. PR OP posted a link to a source confirm this but the PR was still Kevin'd, can't expect people to read sources if they say you can do something IRL that makes crafting less hassle in some way.

Double lol, he also veto'd centrifuges having any analysis quality. Now, what is literally the only use centrifuge terrain has? The mission where you analyze a blood sample. As the PR OP noted, and as whoever coded centrifuges into the game (presumably not Kevin) must've been aware of, analytical centrifuges are obviously a thing.

One big complication is it looks like terrain might not actually support the crafting_pseudo_item feature, possibly only furniture. So I may have to set aside what was going to be the most desirable part off that PR for after I figure out what needs to be changed for that feature to work.

Even without it we'll still have microcentifuge items being able to separate, plus porting over a recipe for separation funnels.

[Robsoie]

Was that the "bone armor removal" situation all over again with people pointing historical source about armor with bone reinforcement but still being ignored ?

[heydude6]

Wut?! I don't even...

The more I learn about Kevin, the more confused I get. If Kevin wants to ruin the game for the sake of realism so much, why does he sometimes do random 180s. This reminds of the time when the Colonial Marines Space Station 13 server decided that the soldier class was too stupid to use basic health items because it was "more realistic".

[Random_Dragon]

Was that the "bone armor removal" situation all over again with people pointing historical source about armor with bone reinforcement but still being ignored ?

Basically the bone armor removal situation playing out in reverse, a guy who has actual sources trying to add a feature to make Erk's ever-unfinished pet project less unbearable, only to get shut down by Kevin on the basis of "hurr durr I don't really know about this subject but I'm gonna shut this PR down anyway" or whatever.

[MaxTheFox]

I remember bone armor, never really used it because by that point you have better options, I don't miss it. Honestly, I feel the claims about Kevin "ruining" the game are exaggerated massively, because I, personally, find DDA more fun. Nothing BN added (or removed) interests me enough to make me move over.

[Random_Dragon]

I remember bone armor, never really used it because by that point you have better options, I don't miss it. Honestly, I feel the claims about Kevin "ruining" the game are exaggerated massively, because I, personally, find DDA more fun. Nothing BN added (or removed) interests me enough to make me move over.

Hey, if you can think of a particular feature Kevin realism'd out that you might want to see again, you can always help give ideas.. :3

[KittyTac]

I remember bone armor, never really used it because by that point you have better options, I don't miss it. Honestly, I feel the claims about Kevin "ruining" the game are exaggerated massively, because I, personally, find DDA more fun. Nothing BN added (or removed) interests me enough to make me move over.

Hey, if you can think of a particular feature Kevin realism'd out that you might want to see again, you can always help give ideas.. :3

Even as someone generally pro-Kevin... this is less about re-adding realism'd-out things, but what about more types of homemade bombs? Like one that sprays acid over a wide area.

[Random_Dragon]

That is tempting, BN has been doing a fair amount of reworking on explosive balance to make the weird mess of "five million different homemade bombs that all do the same thing" a bit more interesting, though most of that has just been in Coolthulhu and others trying to fix up explosive code in general.

Something we do have that DDA doesn't though, last I checked: shrapnel can specify not only exactly how much damage it should deal, but what DAMAGE TYPE it counts as. Arcana exploits the hell out of this for its elemental blast canisters, but we could use that in vanilla BN for fun stuff too.

[Robsoie]

From what i read, CBN has solved their performance issues , thanks for new MSCV builds (though they're only in english for now) and a fix to a function  .

I didn't tested it yet but that's great to see performance getting good again.

[Random_Dragon]

Seems to be good, yeah. Coolthulhu is still working on getting localization up for Windows builds as well. Basically had to switch to MSVC because some link-related stuff needed for the previous windows setup evidently stopped working.

In other news, the rest of my dairy overhauls also got merged recently: https://github.com/cataclysmbnteam/Cataclysm-BN/pull/1382

In a nutshell, butter was made less hassle to make, cutting out the heavy-cream-jar intermediary step because no valid uses could be thought of that'd justify the extra hassle and fiddliness it entails. Also allows for the kids-science-project method of making it with various container tools rather than a churn, as an alternative.

[Random_Dragon]

And PSA time for those of you who might be involved in modding: The way itemgroups are set up is basically going to be flipped around to be completely the inverse of how they currently work.

In a nutshell, they're adding the ability to make itemgroups override each other, like monstergroups and items and such can (that's good). Problem, they're making it the default behavior and thus messing with every single mod in existence which relies on the assumption that you can always just add items to a pre-existing group.

Worse, this will PROBABLY fuck over literally one of the only ways to get two mods to have their content interact with each other without a third patchmod, given how self-copy-from usually works.

[Robsoie]

Ran into a couple of case i had CBN completely freezing when doing some crafting .
Looking around it looks like there's indeed such a bug that apparently is linked to some npc pathfinding issue :
https://github.com/cataclysmbnteam/Cataclysm-BN/issues/1412

[Random_Dragon]

There's a fix PR open for it: https://github.com/cataclysmbnteam/Cataclysm-BN/pull/1420

[Iceblaster]

And PSA time for those of you who might be involved in modding: The way itemgroups are set up is basically going to be flipped around to be completely the inverse of how they currently work.

In a nutshell, they're adding the ability to make itemgroups override each other, like monstergroups and items and such can (that's good). Problem, they're making it the default behavior and thus messing with every single mod in existence which relies on the assumption that you can always just add items to a pre-existing group.

Worse, this will PROBABLY fuck over literally one of the only ways to get two mods to have their content interact with each other without a third patchmod, given how self-copy-from usually works.

This is going to sound dumb, but I swear I've noticed in mod JSON stuff that structure seems to change in a few arbitrary ways that don't seem like they're useful. Is this one of those situations, even with the benefit this is adding?