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Author Topic: Armories of Valturia: Prykanbul Manufacturing Thread  (Read 7491 times)

Madman198237

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Re: Armories of Valturia: Prykanbul Manufacturing Thread
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2020, 11:31:39 am »

Like I said, the 6mm already exists and various nations have and will continue looking at it. Right now the first contract is to the revolutionary group so the cheaper rifles and cartridges it allows for should appeal to them, and the greater volume of fire you can employ from infantrymen carrying more bullets also ought to convince them since revolutionary troops tend to be less accurate than disciplined professionals. I originally thought about 7mm but decided that I wanted to push it a bit further. 6mm Lee Navy is decades old at this point, 6.5 Arisaka (the standard rifle cartridge of the Japanese through WWII) is over a decade old and in full service with the Japanese, this isn't that revolutionary. The trick might be convincing various groups that they don't need the size of the rifle cartridge because, well, that stopped a lot of adoptions. But with a revolutionary group our first customer, that should be an excellent inroads into sales and a great testbed for convincing other customers.

Quote
Prykanbul Manufacturing SR-6-10 6mm Short Rifle Model 1910
In accompaniment with the recent development of the compact and quick-burning 6mm LRC, we have produced a new rifle firing the new cartridge with intent to sell it to everyone and anyone willing to purchase it.

The rifle has a 22-inch (560mm) barrel, slightly longer than a carbine with a 17-20 inch barrel, but much shorter than a full-length rifle, which might have 30-32 inch long barrel.

Our metallurgical expertise is used to lighten the barrel while reinforcing the breech to fire the high-pressure 6mm cartridges. The bolt and breech are designed to ensure a good gas seal to prevent leakage out of the breech, to offset the principle downside of the steel cased ammunition.

Due to the unusually small size of the 6mm rounds, we've made a compact and lightweight 10-round internal and nonremovable double-stack (more bullets, less magazine) single-feed (fewer bullets, much simpler bolt design) magazine fed by full 10-round reusable stripper clips which are heavier than, say, an equivalent size of Enfield clip, but cheaper overall AND they tend to have a better grip on cartridges so that cavalry can use them reliably even on horseback.

The sights are of the aperture type gaining popularity amongst certain groups, with an aperture adjustable from 200 to 1500 yards in distance and likewise adjustable for windage.

The handguard ends after the point where a soldier would typically grip the rifle, so as not to add additional weight, leaving the front of the weapon much lighter. The bayonet lug is a solid attachment point for a proprietary optional fighting bayonet, of a knife type.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 08:20:06 pm by Madman198237 »
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Aseaheru

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Re: Armories of Valturia: Prykanbul Manufacturing Thread
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2020, 06:00:36 pm »

 Given the request for the heavy officers pistol being requested, we could go with a big, fat pistol and a carbine using the same ammunition and most of the same design, particularly as the carbine peoples arent looking for anything really good on their end.

 Which would cost us 1-2 revisions and a design, depending on if we want to hand over a stocked pistol as opposed to a all-up carbine. Anyways, Ill go knock some proposals together?
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Aseaheru

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Re: Armories of Valturia: Prykanbul Manufacturing Thread
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2020, 06:42:13 pm »

Quote from: Prykanbul Four-Line Cartridge
This rimless bottlenecked round of 100 grains fired at a cool 1250 feet per second is designed to give the user the ability to put down whatever may annoy them in a far lighter package than any rifle can or will provide. The round is of lead construction with an open-based cupronickel jacket and is pointed akin to the "Spitzer" bullets being developed by many a nation for their militaries, complete with a "boat tail". The entire cartage is about 1.5" in length and the projectile is, of course, 40 caliber.
Quote from: Prykanbul Phoenix Stocked Pistol
As the classical Phoenix rises from the ashes, so will the Prykanbul Phoenix bring our company to new heights.
 Cambering the Four-Line cartridge, the Phoenix is a striker fired semi-automatic direct-impingement weapon feeding from detachable double-stack, double feed magazines located forward of the grip and weighs in at around 50oz with the basic model's 7" barrel. The magazines hold each 10 rounds and are of stamped steel construction. The sights of the Phoenix are a two-leaf aperture and notch arrangement, with the "open" notch sights being calculated for 25 yards and the flip-up apertures being for 75 and 175 yards, although changing these for others should not be difficult.
 The layout of the weapon have caused some to decry it as a knockoff of the C96, a matter not helped overmuch by the provision of all models with the ability to mount a stock, although where the C96 has its stock attack at the bottom of the grip the Phoenix's attaches to the rear of the breach with a method almost identical to that of a bayonet.

Ammunition inspired by .45 mars long just... expanded with rifle ammo, pistol by the C96 and, well, futureproofing?
-edit-
Edited for clarity of caliber, ammunition numbers correct, and apparently making it legal.
-edit-

And have a carbine, because why not. Theoretically cheaper than rifle, theoretically two markets in one go?
Quote from: Prykanbul M1910
This lever-action carbine chambered for the four-line Cartridge is decidedly not a copy of any of Winchester's lever guns despite looking, smelling and some say tasting like one.
Short and handy, and feeding from a single-stack magazine of 8 rounds and combined for an adjustable aperture sight for ranges out to 400 yards, this carbine is many a rancher's dream and it comes with a 22" sword bayonet for military or police forces. Pay no mind that it was also built cheap, with a price ceiling of 20 credits mostly by dint of using the cheapest materials that are safe.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 08:43:12 pm by Aseaheru »
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ConscriptFive

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Re: Armories of Valturia: Prykanbul Manufacturing Thread
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2020, 08:12:47 pm »

Wait, so is it a pistol or a rifle cartridge?  You're claiming it's a pistol cartridge superior to rifle cartridges?

Aseaheru

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Re: Armories of Valturia: Prykanbul Manufacturing Thread
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2020, 08:43:00 pm »

No? Its a pistol cartage built with rifle tech and is longer than most pistol cartridges but is decidedly not an intermediate cartridge and has a range of, if yer lucky, 400 yards, so thats me screwing up numbers again, one moment
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Khang36

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Re: Armories of Valturia: Prykanbul Manufacturing Thread
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2020, 09:15:54 pm »

Like I said, the 6mm already exists and various nations have and will continue looking at it. Right now the first contract is to the revolutionary group so the cheaper rifles and cartridges it allows for should appeal to them, and the greater volume of fire you can employ from infantrymen carrying more bullets also ought to convince them since revolutionary troops tend to be less accurate than disciplined professionals. I originally thought about 7mm but decided that I wanted to push it a bit further. 6mm Lee Navy is decades old at this point, 6.5 Arisaka (the standard rifle cartridge of the Japanese through WWII) is over a decade old and in full service with the Japanese, this isn't that revolutionary. The trick might be convincing various groups that they don't need the size of the rifle cartridge because, well, that stopped a lot of adoptions. But with a revolutionary group our first customer, that should be an excellent inroads into sales and a great testbed for convincing other customers.

Quote
Prykanbul Manufacturing SR-6-10 6mm Short Rifle Model 1910
In accompaniment with the recent development of the compact and quick-burning 6mm LRC, we have produced a new rifle firing the new cartridge with intent to sell it to everyone and anyone willing to purchase it.

The rifle has a 22-inch (560mm) barrel, slightly longer than a carbine with a 17-20 inch barrel, but much shorter than a full-length rifle, which might have 30-32 inch long barrel.

Our metallurgical expertise is used to lighten the barrel while reinforcing the breech to fire the high-pressure 6mm cartridges. The bolt and breech are designed to ensure a good gas seal to prevent leakage out of the breech, to offset the principle downside of the steel cased ammunition.

Due to the unusually small size of the 6mm rounds, we've made a compact and lightweight 10-round internal and nonremovable double-stack (more bullets, less magazine) single-feed (fewer bullets, much simpler bolt design) magazine fed by full 10-round reusable stripper clips which are heavier than, say, an equivalent size of Enfield clip, but cheaper overall AND they tend to have a better grip on cartridges so that cavalry can use them reliably even on horseback.

The sights are of the aperture type gaining popularity amongst certain groups, with an aperture adjustable from 200 to 1500 yards in distance and likewise adjustable for windage.

The handguard ends after the point where a soldier would typically grip the rifle, so as not to add additional weight, leaving the front of the weapon much lighter. The bayonet lug is a solid attachment point for a proprietary optional fighting bayonet, of a knife type.
considering the Japanese in all services were in the process of replacing their 6.5mm rifles for more beefier 7.7mm cartridges used in their machine guns in the 30s i strongly doubt a lot of people wants a 6mm rifle if it is not going to be semi or full auto.

personally 6mm is fine if we are going for the carbine but a full on long rifle i would prefer 7mm as it provided decent ballistics with out being too beefy allowing for a smaller, lighter gun compared to the 7.7mm guns that are popular with the major powers in this time period.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 09:17:25 pm by Khang36 »
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Madman198237

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Re: Armories of Valturia: Prykanbul Manufacturing Thread
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2020, 09:42:16 pm »

It was in fact replaced for logistical reasons, rather than practical ones. The ballistics of 6.5 Arisaka were in fact good in military service for use in infantry rifles. The ballistic performance of bullets over infantry combat ranges is dictated mostly by the velocity and shape of the round, rather than size. You only start needing a heavier bullet when you start using machineguns for long-ranged area saturation fire and whatnot.
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Khang36

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Re: Armories of Valturia: Prykanbul Manufacturing Thread
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2020, 10:34:17 pm »

looking up the 6mm navy does not really make me feel any better about a 6mm full rifle cartridge, only having an effective range of about 600 yards(~550m) while literally perfect for infantry rifles is not what the currently military thinkers wanted in 1910s, they want rifles that can kill a man at 1km out.

can we meet in the middle and go for a 6.5mm bullet? at least this way we have an existing cartridges that are still in service to compare to rather than 6mm which the the only military to adopt one abandoned it 10 years ago?
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Madman198237

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Re: Armories of Valturia: Prykanbul Manufacturing Thread
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2020, 09:05:31 am »

You are forgetting that 6mm Lee Navy was using much earlier smokeless powder and with the particular setup and improved aerodynamics I've described, we should in fact be capable of retaining more than enough combat range to please the two would-be users right now. And if they adopt it, then we can point to them and say "look, this is actually a usable cartridge".

I mostly just don't want to produce Standard Infantry Rifle #123456 It's In 7.5ishmm And Is Basically The SMLE, and so a kind-of radical departure from that might be interesting to utilize.


Quote from: Votebox
SR-6-10 6mm Short Rifle + 6x50mm Light Rifle Cartridge: (1) Madman

I don't know what anyone else is going to vote for or how you're going to shorten names/designations/whatever, so as usual, add what you'd like to vote for.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 10:38:17 am by Madman198237 »
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Aseaheru

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Re: Armories of Valturia: Prykanbul Manufacturing Thread
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2020, 10:40:03 am »

Quote from: Votebox
SR-6-10 6mm Short Rifle + 6x50mm Light Rifle Cartridge: (1) Madman
Four-Line Cartridge + Phoenix big stocked pistol: (1) AseaHeru
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ConscriptFive

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Re: Armories of Valturia: Prykanbul Manufacturing Thread
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2020, 10:43:08 am »

6mm might be alittle too radical, but the Revolutionary Army doesn't seem too discerning so long as it doesn't low roll.  Also a lot of potential for both the cartridge and rifle to be revised for future contracts.

Quote from: Votebox
SR-6-10 6mm Short Rifle + 6x50mm Light Rifle Cartridge: (2) Madman, ConscriptFive
Four-Line Cartridge + Phoenix big stocked pistol: (1) AseaHeru

Khang36

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Re: Armories of Valturia: Prykanbul Manufacturing Thread
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2020, 10:49:53 am »

You are forgetting that 6mm Lee Navy was using much earlier smokeless powder and with the particular setup and improved aerodynamics I've described, we should in fact be capable of retaining more than enough combat range to please the two would-be users right now. And if they adopt it, then we can point to them and say "look, this is actually a usable cartridge".

I mostly just don't want to produce Standard Infantry Rifle #123456 It's In 7.5ishmm And Is Basically The SMLE, and so a kind-of radical departure from that might be interesting to utilize.


Quote from: Votebox
SR-6-10 6mm Short Rifle + 6x50mm Light Rifle Cartridge: (3) Madman, ConscriptFive,Khang36
Four-Line Cartridge + Phoenix big stocked pistol: (1) AseaHeru

I don't know what anyone else is going to vote for or how you're going to shorten names/designations/whatever, so as usual, add what you'd like to vote for.

ok i looked up the performance difference between the spitzer and round nose bullets and concede that your improvements should give us a bullet that would be lethal to at least 800m

while i would still prefer a heavier bullet, 6.5mm being what i consider the minimum for long rifles, we are not making my idea of an ideal rifle but what would most likely sell for both the carbine and rebel contracts.

in any case if the design goes well we might get a decent rifle that will be popular in the civilian market in the hunting and sport shooting circles.

Quote from: Votebox
SR-6-10 6mm Short Rifle + 6x50mm Light Rifle Cartridge: (3) Madman, ConscriptFive,Khang36
Four-Line Cartridge + Phoenix big stocked pistol: (1) AseaHeru
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 10:55:05 am by Khang36 »
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Light forger

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Re: Armories of Valturia: Prykanbul Manufacturing Thread
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2020, 01:07:38 pm »

Quote from: Votebox
SR-6-10 6mm Short Rifle + 6x50mm Light Rifle Cartridge: (4) Madman, ConscriptFive, Khang36, Lightforger
Four-Line Cartridge + Phoenix big stocked pistol: (1) AseaHeru
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Aseaheru

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Re: Armories of Valturia: Prykanbul Manufacturing Thread
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2020, 01:39:04 pm »

Quote from: Votebox
SR-6-10 6mm Short Rifle + 6x50mm Light Rifle Cartridge: (5) Madman, ConscriptFive, Khang36, Lightforger, AseaHeru
Well, I can see that Im not getting what I wanted, so more on that rifle then.

« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 03:30:30 pm by Aseaheru »
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Sensei

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Re: Armories of Valturia: Prykanbul Manufacturing Thread
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2020, 04:57:21 pm »


Prykanbul Manufacturing 6x50mm Light Rifle Cartridge
A fairly standard-shaped rifle cartridge that has a 6mm diameter lead-cored and fully metal-jacketed bullet with a 50mm long steel case. The case is slightly tapered to aid in extraction even in adverse conditions. A carefully designed propellant mixture is used, that generates higher than usual pressures so that the bullet is accelerated completely in a short barrel while also gaining a high velocity. Naturally, this requires the case to be strong, which is to be achieved by making the case out of steel and carefully fitting the breech and bolt to prevent gas leakage. The Spitzer bullet is approximately 130 grains, moving at around 2500 feet per second, and is boat-tailed and aerodynamically refined to maximize accurate range. Due to the cartridge's small size, it is very light and easy to carry, allowing more ammunition to be loaded into a given size of magazine or stripper clip and more to be carried by an individual soldier. The steel used is much less expensive than brass ammunition, and accusations of steel cases being difficult to reload are clearly false.


As far as I can tell, nothing makes this especially "small size" as rifle cartridges go. It's similar to Lee Navy which is a long boi and the bullet mass is between that of LN and full size rounds such as 7.62x54r or 8mm lebel. Basically it has a similar base diameter and you're not going to get more rounds than normal in the same space, really. It does have a lot of shoulder and some taper so expect curvy magazines.

Also, although you "buy dice" for cartridges, I don't think I'm actually going to roll dice for ammo. You get your ammo, then it's a question of whether it's suitable to the gun and the client's desires or not.

Prykanbul Manufacturing 6x50mm Light Rifle Cartridge: A 6mm FMJ cartridge with a 50mm tapered and shouldered case. The case is semi rimmed, having both a small rim and an inset for the extractor to grab. The bullet itself is long and has a pointed shape, with a boat tail. The case is made of steel. It's a fairly high velocity round. -1 cost to guns using this.

Like I said, the 6mm already exists and various nations have and will continue looking at it. Right now the first contract is to the revolutionary group so the cheaper rifles and cartridges it allows for should appeal to them, and the greater volume of fire you can employ from infantrymen carrying more bullets also ought to convince them since revolutionary troops tend to be less accurate than disciplined professionals. I originally thought about 7mm but decided that I wanted to push it a bit further. 6mm Lee Navy is decades old at this point, 6.5 Arisaka (the standard rifle cartridge of the Japanese through WWII) is over a decade old and in full service with the Japanese, this isn't that revolutionary. The trick might be convincing various groups that they don't need the size of the rifle cartridge because, well, that stopped a lot of adoptions. But with a revolutionary group our first customer, that should be an excellent inroads into sales and a great testbed for convincing other customers.

Quote
Prykanbul Manufacturing SR-6-10 6mm Short Rifle Model 1910
In accompaniment with the recent development of the compact and quick-burning 6mm LRC, we have produced a new rifle firing the new cartridge with intent to sell it to everyone and anyone willing to purchase it.

The rifle has a 22-inch (560mm) barrel, slightly longer than a carbine with a 17-20 inch barrel, but much shorter than a full-length rifle, which might have 30-32 inch long barrel.

Our metallurgical expertise is used to lighten the barrel while reinforcing the breech to fire the high-pressure 6mm cartridges. The bolt and breech are designed to ensure a good gas seal to prevent leakage out of the breech, to offset the principle downside of the steel cased ammunition.

Due to the unusually small size of the 6mm rounds, we've made a compact and lightweight 10-round internal and nonremovable double-stack (more bullets, less magazine) single-feed (fewer bullets, much simpler bolt design) magazine fed by full 10-round reusable stripper clips which are heavier than, say, an equivalent size of Enfield clip, but cheaper overall AND they tend to have a better grip on cartridges so that cavalry can use them reliably even on horseback.

The sights are of the aperture type gaining popularity amongst certain groups, with an aperture adjustable from 200 to 1500 yards in distance and likewise adjustable for windage.

The handguard ends after the point where a soldier would typically grip the rifle, so as not to add additional weight, leaving the front of the weapon much lighter. The bayonet lug is a solid attachment point for a proprietary optional fighting bayonet, of a knife type.

Roll: 6
Difficulty: -1


The biggest challenge here is going straight to a double-stack magazine. Even single stack magazines are a little difficult. Gas seal around steel cartridges is also an issue, and while your machining isn't remarkably precise, you can overcome it by having the bolt hold the cartridge in under a lot of pressure. Luckily, your superior metallurgy should prevent bolts from cracking. Adjustable sights are another advanced somewhat advanced feature.

Prykanbul Manufacturing SR-6-10 6mm Short Rifle Model 1910: This is a bolt action rifle with a 22-inch barrel, making it between the typical length of a rifle or a carbine, and a full wooden stock. It has an internal magazine with a double-stack, single feed arrangement, which holds 7 rounds. It can be loaded from 7-round stripper clips, although these are slightly large and unwieldy. The bolt hand sits upward when the bolt is open and 90 degrees to the right when closed. The last notable feature is an aperture sight. The rear sight about 2cm in diameter, and a couple inches from where the user's cheek should sit. It is adjustable for elevation and windage with large thumb screws on the left, and top right. There is also a bayonet lug where a knife-type bayonet can be secured with another thumbscrew. Both the front and rear sight posts are tall, the front is 5cm above the barrel. The workmanship of the barrel and moving parts is average, it's reasonably accurate and feeds consistently. Costs 21 credits per batch.

Note that the price listed accounts for the steel cartridges.

Edit: added bayonet. It is not an en-bloc clip (clip goes into the gun) but a stripper clip, I had a confusion of terms.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 05:18:55 pm by Sensei »
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