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[Sensei]

Armories of Valturia: Prykanbul Manufacturing Thread

The Prykanbul forges are located near a town in a mountain pass. Much of Valturia can be seen from here, unless there is a southerly wind- then, on a busy day, all that can be seen is black smoke and ash. The company is owned by a man called Ibn Shafi, who keeps an illustrious manor in town which also serves as the offices. To the consternation of the employees, it is a long walk away from the actual manufacturing site (so as to put it in clean air) and to the consternation of his fellow villagers, it is tall, painted scarlet with gold-embossed pillars, and patrolled by guards armed with polearms. To walk from the quant mountain village's square into his courtyard feels as though one has traveled a thousand miles.

Though it is within walking distance, you have been summoned to the office from the working area by telegraph. "Thank you for coming!" says Ibn Shafi, in a thick accent, as he sits on the rim of his marble fountain. After this, he speaks to you through a translator, a fat Valturian man in a suit. Shafi speaks neither fluent French, nor German. "I must thank your king for bringing me here, all the way from Prykanbul. It has been a privelege to work so close to the source of this land's wonderful ores, and so far away from my enemies. Now I owe your king a favor, so he says it is time to make guns. We have the best steel in the land, so I am sure that just as our swords are stronger and sharper, so will be our guns. That is not my trade though. You men get to work, and make something nice. Have a honey lokma on the way out."

Prykanbul Manufacturing starts with the following assets:
The forge site has space for 2 assembly lines.
The Crown has pledged to pay the expenses of tooling the first assembly line.
The treasury holds 65 Credits, mostly in golden bullion.

Here is a link to the main thread.
Remember: If you've joined another company, you should not be reading this thread, as design plans are confidential.

Prykanbul Manufacturing starts with the following designs:
-Prykanbul Curved Sword: A curved sword with a round pommel and a large, flat blade. Rather heavy, but the blade is made of excellent steel and it keeps an edge even when clanging against lesser steel. Costs 25 credits per batch.
-You do not own a gun design.
-The .48 Prykanbul Express rifle cartridge, a rimmed cartridge with a round bullet and straight case measuring 3 inches in length, making it wider and longer than an average rifle cartridge. Uses a somewhat antiquated powder formula which is slow-burning, so it benefits from a long barrel.

It is now 1910, Drawing Phase
Look at the contracts in the main thread, and choose one to target. You will need to design a gun to submit for one or more of them. Normally you may decide whether to make multiple actions in a phase, but I strongly recommend only making one design at first. Propose a design, and vote to decide the best choice. Once you see the results, you will have an opportunity to revise it, or wait until the bidding phase, when you can put a price on your product and submit it for field trials.

Remember your design should include the proposed goals of the gun, as well as its operating mechanism and cartridge, and any special features. If you need to design a cartridge, specify the shape of the bullet, rim or rimless, and the size either in exact measurements or in general (EG, a small rifle cartridge, a large pistol cartridge).

For the first turn only, you may rename your company! Vote on a name you like. If you agree on a logo as well, that will be added to this post.

[Wizgrot]

Well, here we are. If you are thinking of joining this side, you have admitted you donīt want to win. Both our enemies have already gun designs and we have only a nice sword and and outdated bullet to defeat them. And having a bit more money wonīt be nearly enough to win over this difficulty.

Worse thing is, both subgroups (rifle, pistol) contracts could be stolen by the other companies since each have something that they can improve upon. My suggestion would be to try to incomporate our ellaborate metalwork into our gun, either by aiming for the officer pistol to make decorations as intricate as possible or for the cheap rifle, to incorporate into a cheap, lever action rifle that we would design.

[ConscriptFive]

Hmm, unless we want to make a new cartridge right off the bat, the only thing we can use that for is the cheap long rifle.  (And we can try to convince the Calvary to buy our swords instead of carbines...)

In terms of feed mechanism, as much as I would like to go historical with either a revolver or lever-actuated tube, en bloc charger/clip is the future.  The round is kinda huge, so I'm not sure we can fit more than 4 rounds into the breach.  Because we're using a slower powder, something more MLE length (rather than SMLE) seems about right.

Drawing: 'Tanzimat' .48 PE Rifle

Yet again, bringing the wonders of the Orient, the 'Tanzimat' .48 PE is a bolt action service rifle fed from a four round en bloc charger.  It's 30 inch barrel length maximizes the performance of the hard hitting .48 PE cartridge and provides a superior bayonet fighting platform.  An adjustable sliding ramp rear sight enables optimistic marksmen to engage targets out to the weapon's maximum range.  A true service rifle, the system includes a two-point sling and 21 inch Prykanbul steel "sword" bayonet.  Even when ammo runs short, a brave infantryman will have no problems standing against an elitist calvary charge.  Including the bayonet, the system should not cost more than 20 per batch.

[Madman198237]

I'll join since it seems like this side gets the least appreciation already, not that there's much to go on. We have a cartridge that is half suitable for the cavalry purpose (big and powerful to deal with horses) but a carbine firing it would kick like a particularly muscular mule. The cartridge is getting a revision one way or the other so honestly we don't need to be super concerned with it. I assume it's probably a black powder cartridge since it's slow-burning and all that. It also needs a Spitzer (pointed) bullet, which are super easy to change over to. We could either improve this cartridge to make an extremely powerful one OR we could just outright design a new one directly suitable for some use.

A pistol cartridge would be useful, since that can also be used in SMGs.

Alternatively, a particularly fast-burning and somewhat smaller than average rifle cartridge would be excellent to allow us to utilize shorter rifles than anyone else needs for their cartridges, while also being good for carbines. Also for machineguns since it makes them lighter and allows you to carry more ammo.

C5, the magazine and bolt action rifle fed by stripper clips is already a thing and has been for over a decade, possibly over two decades old by now. Your rifle design MIXES IMPERIAL AND METRIC and is therefore terrible. Don't use that cartridge, we'll end up basically redesigning the Lebel which is already 23 years old and super outdated. I do like the idea of trying to play into the 'elan' of a typical idiotic revolutionary army with the sword bayonet, that'd be fun.

[ConscriptFive]

Ugh, I guess that .48 really saddles us with Imperial right off the bat.  I'll edit all the SI to imperial.

As I said, the cartridge is our main issue.  Unless we want to make a new one, we can only do a long rifle.  (We *might* be able to do a carbine.)  We already have a reputation and tech for blades, and we're still pre-WWI with calvary threats, so the armies are still demanding long bayonets.  (I'm willing to bet our competitors won't think of that.)

[Wizgrot]

We are set on the rifle then? We could also go the totally opposite way and try to seign a gun for the Royal Police. However, if we go for a rifle, we should consider doing away with the magazine to avoid extra costs. The job description especially insisted on being as cheap as possible. Might watn to shave of costs with that.

[ConscriptFive]

I'm game-theory'ing our opponents are going to go the the sexier contracts.  Given what we have, the rebel rifle seems like a safe play.  (But is it too safe?)

[Wizgrot]

Also, should we consider talking to other groups so we donīt "stop in any toes" so to speak. This contract is going to put us into direct competition with Fabrique Riviere, who already know how to make shotguns. I fear everyone is going to make a rifle in the first few turns, and the contract says they might try to get rifles from other companies.

I was thinking about making a two-shot Derringer for the Secret Royal Police. Conceleable and easy to execute malcontents with. If we manage to be the only one with a weapon, it is easy money.

[Madman198237]

We absolutely are not tied to Imperial and could abandon it if we wanted to since we will not be using that cartridge. As for abandoning the magazine, AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no. Cheap rifle, not rifle 30 years out of date.

A fixed magazine bolt action rifle loaded with stripper clips in what will be a new cartridge is totally doable. We'll definitely sell them on some form of long bayonet, possibly of the sword type. It can't be our preexisting sword, however. Maybe we could try to work in a package deal or something.

So, as for the cartridge, I'm thinking a pretty standard shape of rimless cartridge of about 7mm bullet caliber. Moderate velocity, so that the cartridge itself can be as small, thin, and cheap as possible.

[ConscriptFive]

A derringer is abit regressive for a police pistol.  They probably already have revolvers and want more of a "pocket pistol."  Look up the Colt Model 1903.

https://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=281

Also, if you want to look at pistols from this period, militaryfactory.com does that as well:
https://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/ww1-pistols.asp

[Wizgrot]

You sure it wonīt be too harsh too jump from breech-loading to magazine box in one go, Mandemon? I wouldnīt mind sacrificing that for 2-3 less cost. Remember, the contract stipulates the most important thing is the cheapest cost. I like the bayonet, since it will probably get us a bonus from our metalworking, but I believe we might be trying something too difficult for our nonexistent gun designing abilities.

Thanks for the info on the gun Conscript5. But anyway, how would you guys look into communicateing with the Fabriere to try either to try to partition contracts? We can only get one each after all and fighting over the same one would only benefit the Behren.

[Madman198237]

Prykanbul Manufacturing 6x50mm Light Rifle Cartridge
A fairly standard-shaped rifle cartridge that has a 6mm diameter lead-cored and fully metal-jacketed bullet with a 50mm long steel case. The case is slightly tapered to aid in extraction even in adverse conditions. A carefully designed propellant mixture is used, that generates higher than usual pressures so that the bullet is accelerated completely in a short barrel while also gaining a high velocity. Naturally, this requires the case to be strong, which is to be achieved by making the case out of steel and carefully fitting the breech and bolt to prevent gas leakage. The Spitzer bullet is approximately 130 grains, moving at around 2500 feet per second, and is boat-tailed and aerodynamically refined to maximize accurate range. Due to the cartridge's small size, it is very light and easy to carry, allowing more ammunition to be loaded into a given size of magazine or stripper clip and more to be carried by an individual soldier. The steel used is much less expensive than brass ammunition, and accusations of steel cases being difficult to reload are clearly false.

This is kind of based on the 6mm Lee Navy cartridge, but a much more modern version of it. Basically, a lightweight but still rifle-power cartridge (So it's not an attempt to jump to, say, 5.56 NATO, since it travels at higher velocities and is heavier despite the relatively close diameters). Opinions?

First off, I'm still not Mandemon and never have been. Second, the box magazine is a breechloading weapon so I'm not sure what your complaint is there. In order to go from a single-shot bolt action to a magazine-fed gun, all you have to do is design the magazine, detachability optional. For a cheap weapon, non-detachable magazine is the way to go.

[ConscriptFive]

Ok, so rules question.  Can we do a 'revision' and then the 'design?' It would make more sense to build the rifle around the cartridge than the other way around.

[Madman198237]

Quite often new rifles and new cartridges evolve together so I think we can do them basically simultaneously? Hopefully?

[ConscriptFive]

Regarding the 6mm cartridge, I think it's too radical for our customers right now.  We're going to be in an 8mm world for awhile.  7mm might be a good compromise though.